Space Skaven/Veermyn

[eldargal]

From BoW via warseer:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=132697&d=1329412262

Yes I know this should be in the General Sc-iFi area but I want more than four people to see it.

My thoughts on them? Well I don't like skaven so I don't like these. Also a new low in originality from Mantic.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

Also a new low in originality from Mantic.

What´s their deal really? Some of their figures look good, and they seem to have enough talent in house to get something done, yet apparently all they want to do is try to copy GW, almost verbatim.

Orks is one thing, but the Corporation models and these (forgedudes is arguable) .. just wow. I don´t mind them, they look okay - I like Skaven - but I completely agree, not really original.

[eldargal]

So far I think Corporation are the best personally, they do look a bit like Elysians but its more of a generic sci-fi military thing than GW specific. In my opinion. Hate the visor plate things though. Hate them so much. Mantic really seems to screw the helmets up for me, hate all their helmets. Soo much.:rolleyes: In terms of aesthetic and proportions I think the Veermyn are unusually good for Mantic, but I don't like skaven. I also don't like Orks so Marauders weren't going to be a hit with me, either.

As to why, GW are the market big boy, making GW compatible kits is where the money is. Mantic are the Burger King to GWs McDonalds, McDonalds do all the market research and whatnot, Burger King copy what McDonalds do after they do it for a little less. Or so I've been told.

[Bigred]

And to be honest, its a perfectly viable business model, for any company entering a field with a large dominant competitor. (see the Microsoft dominated software industry about 15 years ago)

Mantic obviously has money in the bank from investors, as they are producing new product at quite a clip. It's entire ranges as well, not just addons like the chapterhouses/maxminis out there.

I would expect that their "GW compatible" theme will last until they have whatever they consider their core ranges to be all cranked out, then at some point, they will have to start to focus on improving their actual game and rules offerings, work on world building, and expanding/replacing their existing line.

I'm betting this is just an early phase we are seeing that lets them get market penetration without being strangled in the crib by GW.

I think its true that Mantic have some hit and misses out there, but overall their quality level seems to be cranking up quite quickly. Remember how long it took GW to really get their quality up to top notch standing. GW has been in business for 30 years and you still have stuff like the Tomb Kings Skeletons, and the Chaos Dreadnought on shelves. ... Nagash

[eldargal]

Oh quite, my words weren't a criticism. If you want to succeed making GW compatible kits is a good way of doing it. Mantic have taken it a step further in that they produce a lot of plastic troops unlike most companies whose ranges are mostly characters or metal.

My main problem with Mantic (and it is entirely subjective) is that I simply don't like most of their models. In fact I think their Dwarf and Elf ranges are some of the worst miniatures on the market. I could write an epic poem about how much I loathe the Dwarfs.:rolleyes: My other problem with Mantic is they are very much the budget choice, the sculpt quality is highly variable and often crude (see the new Twilight Kin Assassin, it has a real GW in 1990 feel to it.

[Bigred]

Yup agreed ma'am.

I think their biggest challenge is to ratchet up their quality over time while steadily expanding their line. It almost seems like in these early days, they are most focussed on just getting up a complete line of competing armies to mirror GWs, quality taking a backseat to speed of production.

I think the interesting phase will be in about 12-18 months when they will have to go back and start improving their lines and add a "real" rulebook.

Still, aside from Privateer (who I do really respect with a rich universe and deep product line), no one else has managed to stand up an entire wide range of competing product lines to GWs. I think that is what Mantic is in a foot race to pull off at the moment - at light speed.

[Inquisitor Boreal]

So far I think Corporation are the best personally, they do look a bit like Elysians but its more of a generic sci-fi military thing than GW specific. In my opinion. Hate the visor plate things though. Hate them so much. Mantic really seems to screw the helmets up for me, hate all their helmets. Soo much.:rolleyes: In terms of aesthetic and proportions I think the Veermyn are unusually good for Mantic, but I don't like skaven. I also don't like Orks so Marauders weren't going to be a hit with me, either.

As to why, GW are the market big boy, making GW compatible kits is where the money is. Mantic are the Burger King to GWs McDonalds, McDonalds do all the market research and whatnot, Burger King copy what McDonalds do after they do it for a little less. Or so I've been told.

I disagree with the Generic Sci-Fi statement, simply because even the armor is in the exact same place as for the Imperial Guard. In addition, you basically have trench coat Commissar like characters running around and the weapons is essentially a lasgun with a complicated/useless targeting mechanism. Granted, the IG lasguns tend to look like assault rifles of today, but if you copy it, why even copy the freaking NOZZLE of the gun?! The least significant part of it!

Not sure where you live, but in Norway, Burger King is actually more expensive than McDonalds, so copying it and making it more expensive seems like kind of a silly business model :)

[MaltonNecromancer]

I get copying 40K; frankly I'd really rather prefer it if more people did. The thing I just don't get - if you're going to rip off GW, why rip off a fantasy race which has no direct parallel in 40K, and do one of the "missing" races, like, say Adeptus Mechanicus? AdMech/decent plastic cowled troops and generic 40K-scale cybernetics that were compatible with IG would be money.

There are so many things they could do - even if it were just human on human! It doesn't need to be lots of different Xenos - Marine on Chaos Marine proves that. This stupid, ugly Skaven rip-off is pointless and embarrassing.

Whoever Mantic's Vince Russo figure might be, he needs firing.


Mantic really seems to screw the helmets up for me, hate all their helmets. Soo much.

My dear lady, this is why we have the glory of Pig-Iron Productions:
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/head-sprues-c-4.html?zenid=fd71e44a289461d8d6d9f4ef3939dfe3

[Lexington]

I likes 'em, I do. Once the Chaos Codex hits, with its supposed cultists/traitors/whatnot, these guys will spice up the unit but good.

[Suffokate]

I think its true that Mantic have some hit and misses out there, but overall their quality level seems to be cranking up quite quickly. Remember how long it took GW to really get their quality up to top notch standing. GW has been in business for 30 years and you still have stuff like the Tomb Kings Skeletons, and the Chaos Dreadnought on shelves. ... Nagash

I'd like to quote this for prosperity. I don't know where the rationalization that Mantic needs to be on GWs level of miniature making to anywhere near successful comes from. This is the first iteration of there minis and I'm honestly happy that some company is doing something that seems to be so foreign to GW by giving a decent quality of miniatures for a fair amount of money. They are filling a niche that GW seems to be blatantly ignoring and that's getting people playing your game, and one of the biggest barriers to entry in war gaming is money.

[isotope99]

Fear my mighty turkey baster gun :cool:

It makes great roasts

[eldargal]

You know, the more I lookat the Vermeeyn sculpts the more I think they are some of Mantics better sculpts. The tendency to have scrawny legs doesn't matter with the rats (indeed it may be in the concept art for all I know) and they have a strong, well defined and well sculpted aesthetic. I still don't like them, I don't like feral aesthetics like Orcs, Skaven etc in general, but from what I can see they seem a better class of miniature than Mantic usually produce (with some exceptions like undead core and some of the forgefathers and corporation kits).

[Wildeybeast]

I'm not a fan of these minis and I don't buy the argument that just beacuse they are still starting out, their modles are of a lower quality. I think if you really want to take some of GW's market share, you need to be better than them, or considerably cheaper. As anyone who has checked out Eldargal's non-GW fantasy mini project will know, there are fantastic model makers working independent of GW, so whilst GW are probably the best producers of minis in the industry, there are several people giving them a run for their money. If as people have suggested, Mantic have some backing them, they either need to step of the quality of their minis or drop the price if they ever want a decent market share.
Oh, and some originality in their ranges wouldn't go amiss.