Blood Angels Mech 1.5k

[ElectricPaladin]

I've been having a lot of trouble beating my friend's IG tank list with my Descent of Angels list, and it's causing me to question the utility of a purely Descent of Angels-based list. In an effort to not ragequit in frustration in the coming campaign, which will involve my IG friend, some Necrons, and some Tyranids, I've decided to try creating a list that has the resiliency of fast Blood Angels mechanization with at least a little of the Descent of Angels I love.

HQ
* Librarian w/Terminator Armor and Storm Shield (Sanguine Sword, Shield of Sanginius)

Elites
* 5 Assault Terminators (2 Hammer, 3 Claws)
* 1 Sanguinary Priest

Troops
* 5 Assault Marines in a Rhino (1 Power Fist)
* 5 Assault Marines in a Laserback (1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist)
* 5 Assault Marines in a Laserback (1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist)

Fast Attack
* 5 Vanguard Veterans (Power Weapons and Meltabombs for all vets, Hammer on the Sergeant)

Heavy Support
* Stormraven w/Assault Cannons and Multi-Melta
* Dreadnought w/Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer

The idea is that the stormraven carries the terminators and librarian into battle. The sanguinary priest goes in the rhino (which got busted from razorback to help pay for the priest), which rushes into the thickest part of the fighting so he can give the terminators and vets Furious Charge and Feel No Pain with his boosted aura.

What do you think? Is this how mech is done?

[Tynskel]

hmmm....

this is not really mechanized...

my 1000 point list has more mech in it. and that's 4 units 13 front armor, too. (not including transports)

[pathwinder14]

Mechanized usually have at least 6 tanks. But you said you wanted to make a hybrid list? Why is your DOA failing? How does it fail?

[Wolfshade]

One of the great things about a BA force is that you can have fast tanks.
The vindicator for instance is brilliant in a BA list as you can still move and fire.
The other thing I would suggest that a squad of 5 vanguard vets on their own are a little expensive, they are essentially just as tough as a 5 man assault squad but have a one use wonder in assaulting from deepstrike.

[ElectricPaladin]

Mechanized usually have at least 6 tanks. But you said you wanted to make a hybrid list? Why is your DOA failing? How does it fail?

One of my primary opponents - and a participant in an upcoming campaign I'm running with some other friends - plays an Imperial Guard parking lot, sometimes with heavy reserving and an astropath to deny me the alpha strike. Virtually every game against him involves my army dropping out of the sky and then being wiped off the map in a turn or two. He has an enormous number of lascannons, plasma cannons, and some kind of awful S10 blast template thing. His chimeras make it impossible for me to take out his veteran squads, who are equipped with a truly obscene number of plasma and melta weapons, which make a mockery of Feel No Pain and power armor, two of my primary advantages. Or, at least, the two advantages which are supposed to make it possible for a Descent of Angels army to fall out of the sky, withstand a round of shooting, and then get into the assault.

I'm, by nature, the kind of player who likes to balance fluff, competitiveness, and painting, but I really don't think I'll enjoy the campaign if there's a player in it who regularly plasters me with no hope of victory. So, I've been trying to figure out what I need to do in terms of tactics and list-building to have a chance against this guy. I've come to the opinion that DoA just doesn't have the resiliency to deal with a list that is A) this tough to crack and B) throws out this many AP 1 and 2 shots. What I'm looking for here is a new tactic.

[pathwinder14]

One of my primary opponents - and a participant in an upcoming campaign I'm running with some other friends - plays an Imperial Guard parking lot, sometimes with heavy reserving and an astropath to deny me the alpha strike. Virtually every game against him involves my army dropping out of the sky and then being wiped off the map in a turn or two. He has an enormous number of lascannons, plasma cannons, and some kind of awful S10 blast template thing. His chimeras make it impossible for me to take out his veteran squads, who are equipped with a truly obscene number of plasma and melta weapons, which make a mockery of Feel No Pain and power armor, two of my primary advantages. Or, at least, the two advantages which are supposed to make it possible for a Descent of Angels army to fall out of the sky, withstand a round of shooting, and then get into the assault...

Are you using any Vanguard Vets? For an alpha strike DOA list to work, they are mandatory.

[ElectricPaladin]

Are you using any Vanguard Vets? For an alpha strike DOA list to work, they are mandatory.

Vanguard Vets are just so freaking expensive. They don't even come with jump packs - you have to buy them. I haven't tried them against my IG opponent yet, but I've been underwhelmed by them in my other games.

With regards to the IG, I don't think they'd be that effective. They will charge the tanks and transports, blow up a couple of them if I'm lucky - stun, shake, or fail to penetrate if I'm not - and then die to concentrated fire from the inhabitants of the tanks on my opponent's turn. This wouldn't be so bad if the Vanguard Vets were priced as a throwaway unit, but as I wrote, they're so damned pricey...

EDIT:

Alternately, the Vets could assault the targets inside the transports after my standard marines drop and pop them with meltaguns (I field the standard two assault squads with two meltaguns and a power fist each). Then, if I'm lucky (and assault cleverly) I can keep them in combat during my opponent's shooting phase and destroy them in his assault phase. If I can kit the vets out for both assault and tank-busting, I can then use them to bust successive tanks, even if my opponent manages to wipe out or cripple my assault squads. However, this strategy requires two things that have proved unlikely:

1) Multiple angles of attack on the tanks, which my opponent is usually canny enough to prevent via castling.

2) My assault marines need to pop the transport. I don't know if I'm just unlucky, but they don't usually seem to do that with any reliability.

[ElectricPaladin]

So, here's another attempt at mech. This list has a bad combination of involving several models I'd need to buy and not looking like a lot of fun - I've managed to include a couple of the fun, interesting things that I enjoy, but I'll bet they take the most heat in commentary - but I'm curious if this is more like it.

HQ
* Gabriel Seth (Fielded as a counts-as for a made of captain of my own invention)
- Honor Guard w/2 Flamer & Power Weapon Guys, 2 Meltagun Guys
- Mounted in a Rhino

Elites
* Librarian Dreadnought (Shield and Wings)

Troops
* Assault Squad w/1 Meltagun in a Laserback
* Assault Squad w/1 Meltagun in a Laserback
* Assault Squad w/1 Meltagun in a Laserback
* Scout Squad w/Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher

Fast Attack
* Baal Predator w/Twin-Linked Autcannons
* Baal Predator w/Twin-Linked Autcannons

Heavy Support
* Vindicator w/Siege Shield

[woodenronin]

Try blood lance. It shoots multiple units/vehicles if you are lucky. And I always use a librarian with terminator armor and a storm shield with blood lance and blood boil.

[AlMalik]

Fast Attack
* Baal Predator w/Twin-Linked Autcannons
* Baal Predator w/Twin-Linked Autcannons


Baal can't have autocannons. Assaultcannons or flamestorm cannon only

[ElDuchen]

What I've had success with in the past is a Librarian Furioso with Blood Lance in a drop pod. First turn drop him in tight to the castle and you have a really good chance of blowing up several tanks. He'll likely be dead next turn, but if you can rush up and make him think about who to target, this can put a serious cramp in the IG playing style. Especially if you get lucky and drop some Vanguard vets in the mix turn 2...

[Altin]

The blood lance isn`t that good, it`s a shooting power afterall so usually only the first tank in the line doesn`t have cover. Besides 8 str hit is not that powerfull.

If you want to play a mech BA the predators should be the backbone of your army. Mobile, cheap heavy armor.

5 Vanguards with special weapons each are a point sink. I`d go with 5 Ven + 1-2 power fist + 1-3 melta bombs.

Stormraven: as far as i remember if you`d go flat out and gets destroyed all your precious load is gone and the dread gest a glance hit. That`s pretty risky ...

Librarian i term arm and storm shield: the sword of Sanguinus power is good if you have planty atacks ... with this configuration you have 2-3, isn`t it better to go with unleash rage for the termies?

[Wolfshade]

S8 lance weapons are good. If positioned well you can strike through a number of different tanks never needing worse than 4 to glance.

[Altin]

But usually still in cover from the first targetet vehicle
My general thought was that blood lance is not overpowererd and i wouldn`t count on it ;)

[Mephiston69]

The list is pretty solid but for the sake of points efficiency and utility drop Gabriel Seth/Captain in favore a libby with shield of sanguinius and another of your choosing (Blood lance or Sanguine Sword are personal favorites)

[Angelofblades]

HQ
* Librarian w/Terminator Armor and Storm Shield (Sanguine Sword, Shield of Sanginius)

Elites
* 5 Assault Terminators (2 Hammer, 3 Claws)
* 1 Sanguinary Priest

Troops
* 5 Assault Marines in a Rhino (1 Power Fist)
* 5 Assault Marines in a Laserback (1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist)
* 5 Assault Marines in a Laserback (1 Meltagun, 1 Power Fist)

Fast Attack
* 5 Vanguard Veterans (Power Weapons and Meltabombs for all vets, Hammer on the Sergeant)

Heavy Support
* Stormraven w/Assault Cannons and Multi-Melta
* Dreadnought w/Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer


While the idea of carrying Terminators in a storm raven has some merit, it's not really alot. Most people forget that regular SM termintors lack a quintessential piece of close combat equipment. Frag Grenades.

The storm raven doesnt come with Frag Assault Launchers like the LRC / LRR. Your targets that you do charge, will most often be in terrain, if you're facing a decent opponent. So your libby, and your lightning claw termies, will strike at I1.

In all honestly though, the list still lacks ranged support, pick between the VV or termies, I suggest dropping the VV and the storm raven and sticking with a LRR w/ EA and MM. 1500 pts isn't enough to warrant such extravagant points spending on such units.

If you're planning to stick with the Storm Raven, swap the AC for TLLC and slap some EA on that. The Storm Raven needs to remain mobile, getting stunned = dead storm raven + dead units inside.

Swap the fists for Power weapons and swap the Rhino for another razorback. 5 marines isn't enough to hide the PF in combat vs other infantry or even MC's. The PF will find itself dead before it get's a chance to swing. At least the PW get's a chance to swing and do potential damage, even better chances when buffed by Furious Charge.