Lumbering Behemoth

[david5th]

First of all, sorry if this has been asked before.

The Leman Russ Lumbering Behemoth special rule states " A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!).

Does this mean that like the SM power of the machine spirit I can still fired the turret weapon even if shaken or stunned?

I cannot find anything in the latest FAQ.

I know the answer may obvious to some people and this is a question about a old rule but it's only just occurred to me.

[Foreigner]

No.

The rule simply allows you to fire the main weapon of the tank while also shooting the other guns.

[Tynskel]

I am confused...
Lumbering Behemoth is a rule in the Guard codex. PotMS is a space marine rule...


However, read the rule for PotMS: here's a hint, it says you can fire while shaken...

[Colonel Bindoff]

I don't think he was complaining about POTS being better, just using it to illustrate his question. Also seems fairly clear he's aware they aren't in the same codex, but hey. Lumbering behemoth is just a mechanism for LRs to always fire turret in addition to other weapons, but doesn't overrule shaken et al. POTS mentions it specifically because it's a special case.

[Wildcard]

Thing is, that normally you couldn't do anything else than to fire ordnance - to be able to move and shoot your "main gun" alone is a huge advantage.. normally you would have to choose to stay stationary, and shoot no other weapons at that turn..

But lets say, you got 1 heavy bolter on the hull, 2x heavy bolter sponsons and a battlecannon (turret + ordnance)

Quick list to show you what can you shoot (given you got the LoS to the target ofc.)

Stationary:
-All the heavy bolters (3 in total)
- Battlecannon

Combat speed:
- One of the heavy bolters
- Battlecannon

Cruising speed:
- None

Shaken/stunned:
- None

[uatu13]

No, it's just the way GW made it so you could shoot the ordanance weapon and also the other weapons. It would be cool if they could split fire, but it's still a cool rule.

[Grenadier]

Its a brilliant rule. It gives you something good but takes something away. A Russ cannot ever simply move its full speed even it opted to fire nothing. You get 6 inches but then have to roll to see how far you go past that. Not really an issue if you are on the defense and leaving your tanks stationary. But it does make you think how best to use them in an offensive role.

[Eyespy]

Wisdom

Wildcard has it right. The Russ is a real workhorse of the codex. I know Chimera spam is popular but nothing ruins your opponents day like a direct hit from a battlecannon.

[karandras]

LB does not allow the tank to shoot when it is sunned or shaken.

I dunno... I see a lot of guard players but rarely are they running Leman Russ... Heavy Support choices are usually full of Manticores and the Str 6 AP 3 ignore cover tank... Russ seems to be overcosted in comparison from a competitive standpoint... that being said, I always run one or two! Sometimes they do great... Most the time they just soak up fire and spend the game shaken/stunned/and dead!

[Turner]

This comes up a lot and I think I know the reason why?

"A Leman Russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire (even if the turret weapon is ordnance!)."


All this rule is trying to say is "you can fire the turret weapon"

Take the chimera for example. It moves 6" it can only fire one weapon, either the multilaser turret or the hull mounted flamer. (Seriously, why did you take the heavy bolter? Just no, don't... I said no.)

On the flip side we have a Leman Russ Autocannoner. (whatever one that has the twinlinked autocannon turret. Yeah that one, no not the plasma cannon one the one with the, yeah that one.) If that Leman Russ moves 6" normally in the main rule book since it's just a regular old vehicle it can only fire one weapon. BUUUUT with the Lumbering Behemoth rule you can fire the Turret weapon (so many people think you can fire a flat 2 weapons but that's incorrect, one has to be the turret) in addition to whatever else you are normally allowed to fire. So normally if you move 6" you can fire one weapon. So you can fire one weapon PLUS the turret. So choose either the hull mounted whatever as a choice, or maybe one of your sponsons as a choice, or that hunker kill missile (Why did you buy a hunter killer missile? What are you doing!?)

The second part that is very important to remember is the last part of the Lumbering Behemoth rule. The part that says "even if the turret weapon is ordnance!" (The ! is pretty important.) If a vehicle is firing an ordnance weapon then normally, in the main rule book, the vehicle cannot fire any other weapon.

(No, that's ordnance barrage you're thinking of. Page 58 of the main rulebook. Ordnance Barrage states that you can't move Plus you can't fire any other weapons if your firing a weapon that has the Ordnance and Barrage special rule AND you're firing the weapon using the Barrage special rule... because you don't have to fire the weapon using barrage unless it specifically states so, you can fire it directly if you want...)

So anyways, the vanilla Leman Russ Battle tank has a Battle Cannon and a hull mounted whatever. Normally if you choose to fire the Battle Cannon since it is an ordnance weapon you wouldn't be able to fire the hull mounted whatever but with the Lumbering Behemoth rule you can, again, fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapon you would normally be allowed to fire. Did you move this turn? If you moved at combat speed then normally you can fire one weapon, but with the Lumbering Behemoth rule you can fire the ordnance turret weapon PLUS one more weapon. Didn't move this turn? Then you can fire ALL of your weapons including the ordnance turret weapon!


Remember it's just whatever you can normally fire PLUS the turret weapon. If you're stunned, or shaken then normally you can't fire anything, and still can't fire anything. If your turret weapon suffered a weapon destroyed result then the Lumbering Behemoth rule is pretty much useless because you can't fire the turret weapon, if you don't have a turret weapon...

[Swifty17]

Thanks for the informative explination Turner!

[Turner]

Yeah no worries, it's always awesome to ask questions and oddly enough that sort of comes up a lot. People tend to read it, (either quickly, misread or what have you, and mind you I've fallen into the same trap) and think that, "Hey, this is sort of like power of the machine spirit!" But not really, I mean it sort of is if you mean you can fire a turret weapon that is ordnance... well you get the idea. Suffice to say, it's not like power of the machine spirit no more than monopoly is like 40k. Yes they both are played on a table and have little miniature models, and if you land on boardwalk with two hotels you're pretty much boned, but other than that neither game is really the same. Apples and Communism, one is a fruit you eat where the other is an ideology that aims to create a classless, moneyless, stateless social order where everyone sort of owns everything. (And who want's their little sibling touching their models I mean come on, they break their toys all the time and you spent like forever trying to get the shading right on that model and it's like $45 worth of plastic!)

[bfmusashi]

Turner, I could only like you more if you changed your location to Springfield.