Dark Eldar: Agoniser vs. Huskblade

[Cereal n' Milk]

Just got my new Archon kit, and I still dont know what to equip him with, either Agoniser or Huskblade and Soul Trap. What do you run and why?

[DrLove42]

I run Agoniser/Blast Pistol

Huskblades are great. But you're only S3 unless you roll lucky on combat drugs (and give said drugs to your dude) or join a unit thats already got 2 tokens to get FC.

So you need to kill a MC or an IC to get S6 (theres still a chance to fail, even if you do kill one). Most MC's will laugh in the face of S3 so they're out. Leaves you with IC. All Marine ones are T4 or better so you need 5's. And them to have no invulnerable or fail it. You only need one to get through but its a long shot. Probably hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's...even with just a 5++ you're going to score less than one wound if you math hammer it. So its still shoody

Yes you can shoot to weaken, or gain it ...but thats a gamble

Agoniser on the other hand...reliable wound (always on a 4+), which as a S3 is the usual best roll you get (not much T2 outthere) and its a power weapon. yes its not got ID, but against 95% of targets, one wound is enough.

Of course the other option is Huskblade + Soultrap AND Agoniser...expensive, can only use one weapon a turn...but use the agoniser to get that first kill, then S6 ID it up....but by that point they might not be much left to use it on

[Frankio9]

I have used the Huskblade/ Soul Trap combo for over a year now, and it has worked out very good so far. True, the Archon is only S3, but I either use Duke Sliscus along with my Archon to double the chance of the re-roll to Wound, or trust on the Archons skills to wound :). But seriously, for an generic HQ the Archon is very, very good, and you'll roll at least one 5 or 6 if you're attacking an IC. And once that Archon is Str. 6 oh boy... The party has really started.

[Scion_of_Terra]

The Agonizer is a reliable choice, but personally I like using the Djinn Blade along with a Soul Trap and a Venom Blade for a cheap backup. Because the Djinn Blade is wargear, it doesn't replace a ccw, so you can still get the +1 Attack bonus for dual-wielding.

[eldargal]

I tend to go with an Agoniser unless I'm playing Tau, SoB or IG.

[doom-kitten]

Only recently started actually caring about my DE and am no expert but I find the Agonsier better as it's an all rounder weapon, it will wound everything on a 4+ and cost 15 points less then the Huskblade. I personally feel the huskblade is a dedicated weapon and is a waste of points when killing basic soldiers even marines. My current Archon weighs in at 125 pts and has so far impressed me, the three games I've won where basically him doing everything (embarrassing the amount of trouble he pulled me out of). I'm still figuring the army out and trying to adjust my play style as well.

[thecactusman17]

I would go Agonizer every time. Huskblade has too many issues with just wounding, and soul trap means that you HAVE to get into a difficult fight with a tougher IC or monstrous creature in order to make good use of it. For a fraction of the investment I get a reliable weapon and a 2++ save to keep me alive. The pain tokens will make the unit he is attached to much better.

But ignore the blast pistol/shooting whatever you choose. You will almost always want to run to get your CC models into perfect arrangement to pull off those multicharges and character kills. I can think of maybe 1 instance in the last few MONTHS where I wanted a blast pistol on anything.

[eldargal]

Oh, I was thinking of Djinn Blades (where extra attacks are more use than always wounding on 4+).:rolleyes: I don't take huskblades.

[tabyrd]

My djinn blade + soul-trap invariably instakills my Archon once he has taken a soul and becomes S6. It's a measly 1in6 chance to roll doubles and hit yourself and failing a shadowfield hit to your own S6 hit is only funny for your opponent. lol. At least until later. I've done it enough times to not think the extra 2 attacks are worth it.


As for the agonizer, I find rolling a 4+ is a crapshoot and 'mathhammering' it out, I only average 2 wounds on a basic 6 attack charge. While it sucks to charge a S3 huskblade archon into a squad of marines and roll no 5's, I think it's way more satisfying and potentially game changing to have the huskblade combo and hunt ICs/monsters. Of course, you are paying a 25pt premium for that. Going with reliable cheap 1 or 2 wounds may be more your style. I just never seem to be impressed with agonizers. YMMV

[Uncle Nutsy]

Huskblade/Soultrap/Blaster

that's right. a blaster. Get that kill from a safe distance away, and you're now str6. rampage ahoy.

[eldargal]

See this is another thread which illustrates the beauty of the Dark Eldar codex and why, in my opinion, it is the best GW produced to date. Notwithstanding one or two genuinely underpowered (if not enitrely useless) choices, most of what 'works' is down to personal preference.

[Sure]

Use the Huskblade Soultrap combo. Why? It's more fun. Is the huskblade as reliable as the agoniser? No. But this is a DICE GAME. Go for broke and have fun. The times you start rampaging away will be worth it. Dude (not me) playing against a Vulcan/Master of Forge List ganks the Master of the Forge, then Vulcan, and then took out a dreadnought before being gunned down. But boy, I hope they don't/havn't FAQ'd it to only allow one doubling!
Will the agoniser give you statistical reliability against most opponents? You bet.
Will the agoniser ever take out a dreadnought? Never.
Save the agonisers for the squad leaders and make your leader heroic.

[eldargal]

Nothing is more fun than whips.

[DapperDave]

Huskblade/Soultrap/Blaster

that's right. a blaster. Get that kill from a safe distance away, and you're now str6. rampage ahoy.

This doesn't work: You need to make the kill in close-combat for soul-trap to trigger.

If it did you'd see this waaaaaay more often.

[chipstar1]

Interesting thought... hadn't considered the blaster+soultrap.

[DapperDave]

Interesting thought... hadn't considered the blaster+soultrap.

No, really, this isn't how soultrap works.

[chipstar1]

This doesn't work: You need to make the kill in close-combat for soul-trap to trigger.

If it did you'd see this waaaaaay more often.

There is nothing at all that says the kill must be in close combat. I think the blaster/soul trap works as intended.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Use the Huskblade Soultrap combo. Why? It's more fun. Is the huskblade as reliable as the agoniser? No. But this is a DICE GAME. Go for broke and have fun. The times you start rampaging away will be worth it. Dude (not me) playing against a Vulcan/Master of Forge List ganks the Master of the Forge, then Vulcan, and then took out a dreadnought before being gunned down. But boy, I hope they don't/havn't FAQ'd it to only allow one doubling!
Will the agoniser give you statistical reliability against most opponents? You bet.
Will the agoniser ever take out a dreadnought? Never.
Save the agonisers for the squad leaders and make your leader heroic.

This is the kind of logic I usually like. Then again, it's not like I enter many tournaments around here. Or that there are many :P

[DapperDave]

There is nothing at all that says the kill must be in close combat. I think the blaster/soul trap works as intended.

I will admit, I don't have my codex nest to me, so I may be wrong. But even if I am, most IC's are going to be hidden in squads - though against MCs I guess it could work semi-reliably.

It still seems like a lot of footwork to get S6, though.

[chipstar1]

I will admit, I don't have my codex nest to me, so I may be wrong. But even if I am, most IC's are going to be hidden in squads - though against MCs I guess it could work semi-reliably.

It still seems like a lot of footwork to get S6, though.

I've got mine in front of me, and I don't see any mention of the close combat requirement.

I agree that it is a lot just to get S6, but if you can put a few wounds on it from other avenues and then finish it off with the blaster, why not. Beats trying to ID a T5 IC or T6+ Monsterous Creature with a S3 huskblade.

[TheSustainableCenter]

Why are we running an Archon in the first place? I would ask that first...but if I was running one I would do the agonized, obvious choice really.

[chipstar1]

What do you run instead of an Archon?

[schulzed]

I run with the agonizer and blast pistol. It might just be because I usually play MEQs, but I have enough trouble wounding on 4's, I don't like to depend on rolling high to wound, and then my opponent failing their invulnerable save. Also, I like to have options with what I use to engage characters. Most lists will have one or two IC's, and monstrous creatures aren't all that common. If I take the huskblade, I'm basically dedicating my archon to killing that one thing to make it worth taking. And I find, especially with DE, you need to be flexible and think on your feet. Because if you're too predictable or assault the wrong thing at the wrong time, it can kill your game.