View Full Version : Who does Pedro help more ?
CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO
09-16-2009, 12:37 AM
I've always been a Dark Angel player (started back in second ed.),but never used Deathwing or Ravenwing much,more of a Greenwinger.I've made green marine armies using the 5th Ed. codex space marines and the models I have,but don't really like it that much.So until the Dark Angels get a 5th Ed. codex,I've decided to shelf them and start a 2nd space marine chapter.I,ve decided to go with the Crimson Fists,of all the characters in the new codex Pedro Kantor interests me the most.He will be the first entry on army list.My second choice is where I have come to a problem.My first go at this new list had a Sternguard and a Honourguard in it,both at full strength (10 men),and both in drop pods.After looking at the points for these 2 squads and Pedro,it just doesn't seem reasonable 880pts. for a 1500pt list.So I've come to a few questions that I don't have the experience to answer and thought I'd ask you harden veterans what you think (before I go out and buy any new stuff).
Before I ask my questions,I wanted to give you an idea about my army and where I'm coming from as a player.First of all,I've been around since second ed.,but because of the limited number of players in my area I've probably only played about 20 games from 2nd. to 4th ed.With the help of the internet I have found 7 guys in my area to play and have played a dozen games of 5th edition so far.The only problem is that using my old figures, I've only been able to field armies with a Captain,Tactical squads,Devastator squads,Rhinos and Razorbacks,Drop Pods,and Dreadnoughts.All the new stuff in the codex is a mystery to me (never seen them in action).So I really could use your guys help.
Here are the general ideas for my List and finally my questions.This list is 1500pts it will have 3 drop pods and I wanted to try a thunderfire cannon or two as well as a vindicator.Here are my questions
1)Who benefits from Pedro being attached to them more (in a drop pod) Sternguard or Honourguard ?
2)Would it be better to take both squads at lesser strength (5 Honour and 7 Stern) or only one at full ?
3)Would it be better to take 2 Sternguard squads (at whatever strength) and forget about the honourguard all together?
As always,thanks to all who take the time to read this and/or reply.
Exitus Acta Probat
09-16-2009, 01:00 AM
A bit more context is necessary for full input, BUT....
Honorguard=fun but blech...
Sternguard=fun, with Pedro scoring fun, but a struggle to make points back.
Go with the sternguard, and accept you will be fighting an honorable uphill battle with a points deficit right off the bat in a more competitive game.
RocketRollRebel
09-16-2009, 01:08 AM
sternguard ftw! It just wouldnt be a CF army without them. Honor guard dont really impress me rules wise. Assault termies do the job better IMO.
CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO
09-16-2009, 02:24 AM
As far as more input,this is what I had in mind for my 1500pt army.3 drop pods,2 of which will come in on my first turn (whichever 2 are most advantageous for me to use against the army I'm fighting) and have to be tough as nails to hold their own so far ahead of my army.Pod 1-Sternguard or Honourgaurd w/Pedro attached. Pod 2-Sternguard or Honourgaurd or Tactical squad. Pod 3-Ironclad Dreadnougth or Regular Dreadnought. Troops-1)Tactical squad in Rhino or Combat Squaded w/5 in Razorback.2)Scout squad w/Sniper Rifles,Camo Cloaks and a Missile Launcher.Heavies-1)Vindicator w/storm bolter,siege shield.2)Predator w/heavy bolter,storm bolter.3)Thunderfire Cannon.
The Plan- Two best pods for situation drop in ahead of main force.Rhino/Razorback Tac. squad advance to support first 2 drop pods.Sniper squad sits on objective(in a piece of terrain that my techmarine can reinforce) in my zone or splits and sits on objectives in my zone (depending on mission).Vindicator,Predator,Thunderfire cannon provides support for first two drop pods.Drop pod 3 (when available) goes where needed.
This is just a general theme of how i wanted to use this army I'm trying to build.At this point I have only selected Pedro.My next step is to decide what squad to put him with in Drop pod 1.So at this point I have Pedro,a drop pod,and 1290pts to play with.
Now that you guys know what I have in mind let me know what you think
deadmanwade
09-16-2009, 06:43 AM
I have NEVER had a problem with Sternguard getting their points back (admittedly I dont use more than 10 in a game). Make sure you give them a little extra kit, a couple of combi-meltas and a heavy flamer, but dont go nuts. When you drop them from the pod, have pedro, the flamer and 4 guys go and wipe out a nearby troops choice and the combi-melta guys blast the nearest tank to pieces. Drop pods let you drop your guys in exactly the right spot if you're careful.
Things to note: The AP3 rounds are ok, but the real strength is the 2+ poison rounds and the no cover save rounds. Monstrous creatures? no problem. Unit in cover? No problem
Against most targets you have something that can either wound or ignore their armour. 2 attacks each makes them tough to beat in combat with most non-assault units.
Honourguard are not as good as terminators.
Dragonmann
09-16-2009, 06:43 AM
Pedro benefits from, and really benefits a squad you intend to use for assault. In general you want to use Sternguard as a fireteam.
Figure out whatever squad you want to throw in for assault, and attach pedro to that. Termie Assault, or vanguard are expensive ways to go. assault squad without jump packs, or even a large squad of close combat scouts are cheap ways.
beeny13
09-16-2009, 10:29 AM
personally i like the idea of keeping a small honour guard in a razorback. and having a sternguard squad 10 men with about 3 combimeltas, a fist and 2 lascannons with a drop pod. also a dread or two in a pod
the sternguard can be combat squadded in kill point missions. otherwise i have some long range at, and the combi squad can be brought in first turn or held in reserves.
as far as pedro, he just isn't very good at combat. a terminator is almost as good as him. his strengths are that he makes assault squads better, terminators great, and he can really make the honor guard something to fear. also sternguard are much better than dev squads.
i like to have pedro be reactive with a few different squads that he can join. a drop pod of stern, a razorback of honor, and maybe even a terminator squad. that way you can use his wounds to make a small sternguard squad live through a turn of firing, he can make the honor guard much better, or he can back pedal with the termies laying down fire into advancing assault forces.
CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO
09-17-2009, 01:56 AM
Hey Guys,Thanks for the replies,been trying to write you back ,about 4 hours the last 2 days.Its about as long as my first post,but after I hit submit,the site acts as if I'm not signed in.Some great ideas in your replies, I wanted to let you know what I've done with them.So if you ever see my name as last updated by again,PLEASE stop in and see what you think.
i'd say sternguard or basically anything but honour guard. honour guard can have the +1A abillity with a nice little flag and after his buff-aura pedro really isnt more than another marine with a powerfist.
most efficient unit for pedro really is a squad of 7 TH/SS termies and a power armored chaplain all in a crusader.
4A s8 ws4 reroll to hit on the charge :)
therealjohnny5
09-17-2009, 10:31 AM
i'd say sternguard or basically anything but honour guard. honour guard can have the +1A abillity with a nice little flag and after his buff-aura pedro really isnt more than another marine with a powerfist.
most efficient unit for pedro really is a squad of 7 TH/SS termies and a power armored chaplain all in a crusader.
4A s8 ws4 reroll to hit on the charge :)
i agree. either put him in a LR with termies, or more as a change of pace for me since i primarily play Raven Guard my CF army is more shooty with Pedro leading the CC charge with an honor guard all with Relic blades. It's more for fun than competition since the Termies make more sense. The rest of my CF is 2 8 man sternguard, telion sniper squad, another sniper squad, and a scout squad. that makes 5 units that can hold objectives and i use scouts bc of fluff.
As for the ThunderFire...GET IT! it is a steal at 100pts, plus you can give your marine a servitor squad if you want...it's nasty. Vindicator is great but short range though shooting without LOS is nice option. The HS options you have is a nice combo of ranges and strengths. i prefer to take a Dev squad but that's alot more points and just me. feel free to PM me and we can swap CF lists if you like.
sicarius2424
09-20-2009, 05:50 PM
plan 2 looks good pod 2 stern guard w/ pedro in one of them and pod ironclad it has increased armour to help you suport your troops longer and has better options then the regular 30 points more for f13 s13 r10 i say go for it because you can stick 2 hunter killer missles to do some tank hunting with while suporting stern guard bring in one stren guard (try to run sternguard with as may bolters as possiable) try to mactch up ranges between stern guard and dread so they can focus their fire to eliminate one unit at a time so if you do go ironclad run 2 hk and hurricane bolters (if you choose to use regular dread do the same suport the anti-infantry fire power or use it to hunt tanks or monsturous creatures/large threatening uinits that get to close using the scouts to provide sniper fire would be like a god send when facing horde armies can use the tactical squad to suport the pods or capture another objective on the other side of the borad away from the main force
its your choice man (if nothing sounds good dont listen to me only you know whats best for you, only you are the true expert of yourself)
I use Pedro as the center of ALL my Ultramarine 3rd Co. Builds (see my blog at B&C).
Pedro is a force multiplier, pure and simple. It is not so much what he does in combat that is important, it is what his benefits are that is more.
I deply him with a bodyguard in the center or most beneficial position of my army.
He makes me stubborn.
He gives his inspiring presence on a wide front.
The best location to deploy him is also in a Rhino. His benefits range from the Rhino. The enemy have to pop the Rhino too stop his major benefit - a nearly twofold increase in CC attacks for your in-range squads.
On the other hand, go back to the DA codex and study it. There are great things in it. Great builds. Our FLGS's best marine player has a DA army that is a ravenwing to be feared.
CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO
09-28-2009, 01:06 AM
Thanks guys for sticking with me, all good ideas and I'll try to address them all,but I don't want to be too long on any particular post (before mentioned problems). I like the idea of the assault squad with pedro in a drop pod.Drop in on turn one - 10 bolt pistol shots and 4 from dorns' arrow. if assaulted 34 CC attacks,if I charge in the next turn 44 attacks.
Some of the other ideas that I choose not to go with (heres why) Terminators and Honor Guard- I'm going to lump them together. Both are good choices,but in a 1500pt army,soak up a lot of points and considering most of what I heard assault termies are most effective in a land raider. Pedro +5 assault termies +landraider is something like 625pts. Pedro,assault squad,and drop pod =365pts. I think those will be my first 3 purchases in a week or two unless anyone can change my mind.If you all have something else in mind,please let fly with it.If not,I'll be moving on to my second squad choice and at the moment it appears to be sternguard.Pondering how many men?,drop pod or razorback,and was considering giving most combi-weapons (at least 5).Does anyone use their heavy weapons options?
To keep you guys up to date on my train of thought for putting this army together I want it to be 1500pts (for now) and be an all comers list. Thanks for all the advice. One more question for you cyber veterans once I get my list together should I put it up here or start a new thread in army lists.I don't want to lose any of the people who helped me,but I don't want to be putting things in the wrong place.
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