GW store question

[LordGrise]

So I'm at the one and only GW store in San Antonio, and there's a pretty good crowd for a Wednesday afternoon. I'm up at the very front of the store, in a conversation with another customer concerning priming on the sprue vs off the sprue. I make comment that I really don't use GW paints or primer since they dropped boltgun as a primer; I use Vallejo paints and I prime on the sprue with Tamiya heavy gunmetal. Then, from the cash register, halfway the length and breadth of the store away, the one and only store employee yells, and I do mean yells:

"Hey Craig? Please don't talk about my competition's paints, I'm trying to make a buck here, okay?" All conversations in the store stopped; everyone in the store heard him. I indicated that I would not be back, and I walked out.

Is this customary and acceptable behavior on the part of a GW store employee? And is this standard policy for GW stores? If it is, I can't believe any of them stay in business.

[Capn Stoogey]

I can see his point about the competition, but he didn't have to be such an a$$ hat about it. Sounds like a bit of a tool dude, I'm sure you'll be fine without the store, online is the future anyway!

[doom-kitten]

The guy running GW here in Victoria will actually recommend competition products if he feels they are superior to GW, in addition at events or convention he will literally take you to a competitors booth to show you product and anything that they have that he does not have in stock.

[DrLove42]

Well the fact he heard you across a store would suggest you weren't exactly talking quietly either.

And although he was a bit of a dick about it, hes got every right to ask you to stop.

If you walked into McDonalds and started telling everyone that Burger King was better, cheaper and delivered to their house what would you expect them to do there?

[alshrive]

strictly speaking he had every right to ask you stop although he went about it in an inappropriate way. having worked for gw i understand the quandry this can pose. Frequently i had to deal with people doing this, although i always found a quiet, discreet and polite word did the trick. now the story of banning the regulars because they were interrupting customers and recommending an independent stockist because it was cheaper, that was a different matter........

[Wolfshade]

The only experience I have come across of this was way back in the 90s when a chappie at the store was politely asked not to use a non-GW skeleton in fantasy battle and as it continued it was made evident that is was the third time that he had been spoken to about this and would not be welcomed to play in the shop if he continued.

[MarneusCalgar]

Well, maybe the way of telling you "just shut up" wasn´t the merely correct one, but... I approve the behaviour of the boy at GW...

There are formal etiquettes of behaviouring when entering into a shop, and I don´t think it´s good going into one GW store speaking about the wellness of their competitors... if it were an independant retailer ok, you´re right, but into a GW store... it´s nasty and if he was on the other side of the store and yelled to you... you weren´t whispering precisely.

Maybe GW is not the best enterprise of the world, but you must show a little respect when entering into their stores, and I think you didn´t this time.

[pauljc]

I can see his point about the competition, but he didn't have to be such an a$$ hat about it. Sounds like a bit of a tool dude, I'm sure you'll be fine without the store, online is the future anyway!

Pray tell, how do you effectively demo tactile, visual strategy games to people via the internet? When all the brick-n-mortar stores are gone, so goes our hobby.

[pauljc]

So I'm at the one and only GW store in San Antonio, and there's a pretty good crowd for a Wednesday afternoon. I'm up at the very front of the store, in a conversation with another customer concerning priming on the sprue vs off the sprue. I make comment that I really don't use GW paints or primer since they dropped boltgun as a primer; I use Vallejo paints and I prime on the sprue with Tamiya heavy gunmetal. Then, from the cash register, halfway the length and breadth of the store away, the one and only store employee yells, and I do mean yells:

"Hey Craig? Please don't talk about my competition's paints, I'm trying to make a buck here, okay?" All conversations in the store stopped; everyone in the store heard him. I indicated that I would not be back, and I walked out.

Is this customary and acceptable behavior on the part of a GW store employee? And is this standard policy for GW stores? If it is, I can't believe any of them stay in business.

I agree with the majority here. If you don't know how hard it is for game stores to make a living these days, look into it.

Personally, I think you should go back to the store, apologise for your part in the ruckus, and discuss with the manager that you felt it unecessary for him to shout across the store like that.

Even though I side with the manager's point of view, it was poor customer service (and definitely something his area manager would freak out at). He should have just wandered over and had a quiet word.

Basic rule of etiquette though: don't **** where you play.

[miteyheroes]

"Hey Craig? Please don't talk about my competition's paints, I'm trying to make a buck here, okay?" All conversations in the store stopped; everyone in the store heard him. I indicated that I would not be back, and I walked out.

The GW dude shouldn't have shouted, but you must have been loud as well or he wouldn't have heard you? But he did say please, and said a perfectly valid reason why you shouldn't do what you were doing. And in response you stormed off refusing to ever visit the store again? That seems an overblown response.

So yes. I think both of you acted non-ideally. He shouldn't have shouted; you should have been the bigger man and not let him get to you so much.

[woodenronin]

First off, you are in the United States. We have the right to free speech. You were not instilling violence or plotting anything illegal. You have the right to talk about whatever you want. Without the worry of government or personal harrassment. They can not kick you out of the store for talking about a competitors product, unless you were creating some kind of scene. It is your right to also not to shop where ever you want.
Second ,screw that !!GW in not godlike. You were not wrong to state your personal preferance about why or why you don't use a certain product. It is your opininon not a fact. You can speak in any tone or decible you want. GW can not tell you what to talk about in their stores.
Third , a good salesman that wants to keep business in their store should learn salesmanship. Not how to drive business away.
Just remember we are the hobby. Not some d-bag behind a smock.

[SeattleDV8]

Nonsense, a privately owned shop can ask you to leave at any time for any reason.
They can even have you removed by force if you resist.The local police will do this.
Some reasons are actionable (race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.), but this is at a later date.
Many may be just poor customer service,along with the usual troubles that come with it, but that choice is always there.
Our right to free speech does not prevent a shop owner/operator from asking us stop talking about something or leave.

[Wildeybeast]

First off, you are in the United States. We have the right to free speech. You were not instilling violence or plotting anything illegal. You have the right to talk about whatever you want. Without the worry of government or personal harrassment. They can not kick you out of the store for talking about a competitors product, unless you were creating some kind of scene. It is your right to also not to shop where ever you want.
Second ,screw that !!GW in not godlike. You were not wrong to state your personal preferance about why or why you don't use a certain product. It is your opininon not a fact. You can speak in any tone or decible you want. GW can not tell you what to talk about in their stores.
Third , a good salesman that wants to keep business in their store should learn salesmanship. Not how to drive business away.
Just remember we are the hobby. Not some d-bag behind a smock.

Wow, I thought that LordGrise was a bit daft for expecting sympathy when he was clearly out of line, but this may just actually be the stupidest post I have ever read. Are you honestly suggesting that you have the right to say whatever you want, wherever you want? Do you think it would be acceptable to wander into a mosque and start promoting Buddhism and expect them not to say anything? Grise was on privately owned property, the store owner/manager is well within his right to ask him to leave for a pretty much any reason, barring outright discrimination. And the store guy didn't even do this, he just politely asked him not to discuss the competition in his store, which got Grise's knickers in knot because he was embarassed in front of his mates. The employee could have handled this more subtly, but he was probably quite busy as the only guy there and wanted to get across the point ot everyone in the store that this sort of behaviour is a no-no, so it seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Grise, you should accept you were in the wrong, swallow your pride and apologise, rather than rant on the internet in attempt to find a looney like woodenronin to jusitfy your behaviour.

[MarneusCalgar]

Sorry I´m not from USA, but here in Europe the things go the same: if you are invited into my house and instead of talking, you want to **** my wife... the most common thing I will do is piss you off my yard, man.

Maybe your argument was right, but the place and the time not. We are more telling you´re wrong than the one telling you were right... just apologize to the boy at GW and, if you want, take your hobby where you may roam...

But world not always rules only for your will or your likes, sorry man

[woodenronin]

I am a looney. Yes this is true.I was just telling him what he wanted to hear. What is wrong with that?I am in no way a lawyer or any law expert.I was giving a rant. Which I kind of thought was funny.Sorry to upset anyone.

[Chris Copeland]

So I'm at the one and only GW store in San Antonio, and there's a pretty good crowd for a Wednesday afternoon. I'm up at the very front of the store, in a conversation with another customer concerning priming on the sprue vs off the sprue. I make comment that I really don't use GW paints or primer since they dropped boltgun as a primer; I use Vallejo paints and I prime on the sprue with Tamiya heavy gunmetal. Then, from the cash register, halfway the length and breadth of the store away, the one and only store employee yells, and I do mean yells:

"Hey Craig? Please don't talk about my competition's paints, I'm trying to make a buck here, okay?" All conversations in the store stopped; everyone in the store heard him. I indicated that I would not be back, and I walked out...

I'd like to speak up for this particular GW employee. It's hard to imagine him being anything other than pleasant and professional. I've never hear him say a cross word to anyone. I've had several conversations with him about other games and their good points since the SA store opened. Also, the store is TINY. Seriously, this is a SMALL place so to point out that his voice carried a bit doesn't take much. It's like gaming in a shoe box in that store. My third point is that what he was asking of you isn't unreasonable. If you play back the words using different tones in you head you'll see that it sounds quite reasonable. Last thing: he asked you to please not do something and then explained his reasoning (he's trying to make a buck... he has numbers that he's trying to hit in a city with AT LEAST four good LGSs not that far away... paints are a good revenue stream for GW stores especially with us veteran gamers...). So, his request seems reasonable to me. All of the above is just my two cents. Cheers! Copeland

PS Craig, if you are in the SA area for a while you should consider joining the Facebook group called the Gaming Garage ... it's the biggest gaming club in the SA area and a great place to discuss the local meta and set up local games... cheers...

[Daemonette666]

I had varied experiences at GW stores. Their policies often change with the store manager as well. I have been allowed to use GW licenced Armorcast titans previously at one store, and more recently, they will only allow Forgeworld Titans, or Models made ENTIRELY out of GW parts for Apoc matches. I used to be able to bring my blood bowl miniatures in, until it became a "no longer stocked and supported game" only available through special order.

I was almost kicked out of one store for using my 2nd edition GW manufactured miniature of Azaezel Daemon Prince in a standard game. I had to prove it was a GW miniature, and even then they asked me to use one of their daemon princes instead. I know, they handled it in a politically correct manner, but it means, that I have to play with these miniatures at other locations, and have been forced to find another venue/ store to buy and play with my miniatures.

I now go into GW shops ONLY when I can not get a particular miniature from elsewhere in a hurry, and I am desperate enough to pay the extra prices they charge compared to a Local gaming shop.

Conversation wise, I have always had to watch what I say in a GW shop. Some shops do not let you talk about things like Doctor Who, or any other non GW sci-fi movie/ TV series. Sometimes I hear the staff talking about subjects such as "OMG" other gaming systems, or LCGs that they are going to buy, i.e. Blood Bowl team manager from Fantasy Flight Games. And I could not discuss which Star player miniature to get for my Dark Elf blood bowl team.

I used to get customers walking up to me when I was at the hobby desk painting my Chaos Marines. They would ask me heaps of questions about what miniature I was painting, what army and game it belonged to, etc. I tried to be friendly and not scare the customer off, and try and let the staff member - when they were not busy selling something to another customer - do his job and sell their currently High priority army/game. I as berated by the store manager once, when the customer kept coming up to me and asking questions about my model, and army, and was told not to chat to customers, and to stop promoting Chaos Space Marines when he wanted to sell the customer another product. When the customer left I had a private word, and got the store manager to apologise to me, as I had not instigated contact or actively sought to chat with the customer.

In regards to you situation, the staff member in question does have the right to ask you to stop discussing competitors products. Yes he did it in the most in appropriate, and unprofessional manner. Now you have to decide whether you want to go back to the store, and follow their rules, or to find an alternative venue/ store. I have, and I am very happy with the change.

[Wildeybeast]

I am a looney. Yes this is true.I was just telling him what he wanted to hear. What is wrong with that?I am in no way a lawyer or any law expert.I was giving a rant. Which I kind of thought was funny.Sorry to upset anyone.

What is wrong is that Grise behaved like a petulant child who had been told off and rather than pointing out that he was in the wrong, you have mitigated his actions, told him he was right and encouraged to him act in such a fashion again. I'm not upset, I just think it's socially irresponsible.


In regards to you situation, the staff member in question does have the right to ask you to stop discussing competitors products. Yes he did it in the most in appropriate, and unprofessional manner. Now you have to decide whether you want to go back to the store, and follow their rules, or to find an alternative venue/ store. I have, and I am very happy with the change.

What was "unprofessional" about it? He was polite and explained his reasons. He was in fact following his 'professsion' by supporting his employers (and therefore ensuring he generates enough trade to stay employed). Chris Copeland, who clearly has first hand experience of this store, has pointed out that you would hardly have to raise your voice to be heard by the whole store, so it's not like he was yelling. The employee also probably felt it necessary to convey to the message to all customers, rather than picking on grise. He also avoided any potential complaint by grise by ensuring the entire store clearly heard what he said. Subtle and tactful? No. Unprofessional? Certainly not.

[T-ORK-amada]

As a patron of the GW store in San Antonio, I know the store manager. He is an upstanding guy, that has done nothing but nurture the hobby. I would also would like to point out that the store is a 10 foot by maybe 20 foot closet space, so to shout across the store so you are heard could be done without effort. It does get a bit loud in there when 5 or more people are in there, so if your talking about competitors product and the Manager heard you, the conversation had to be quite loud. I have frequented that store on a couple of times, and has always been pleasant. Something tells me that if he did lash out to someone in a negative way, it was not the first time that person was warned. I pretty sure I know who LordGrise is, and he comes off as a bit of a asshat anyway.

[Chris Copeland]

Now I feel compelled to defend LordGrise. It happens. It has happened to all of us: we hear something and we overreact. I wasn't in the tiny San Antonio GW store that day. I believe that Grise was probably in the wrong and that the Manager was being perfectly reasonable. However, I suspect that Grise might have just been a gamer who got his feelings hurt and overreacted. I'm not ready to call him any names yet.

We have a vibrant gaming community in the greater San Antonio area. We have several LGSs that support our hobby: Dragon's Lair, two Alien Worlds shops, and Game-a-Lot (not to mention Dibble's... you can't play there but you can buy almost anything there). Our city hosts two top-notch GTs: the Alamo and the Alamo 40K. Gaming is alive and well in San Antonio, Texas!

So I hope that Grise calms down and gives the GW shop another try. I hope that Grise and T-Ork join the Gaming Garage (https://www.facebook.com/groups/175757472448931/) and I get in games with them and get to know them... this hobby needs all of the good players it can get!

Cheers! Copeland

PS I post under my real name because I am avoiding the anonymity of the interwebz... let's play!

[Chris Copeland]

T-Ork just contacted me. I didn't realize it because of his "handle" but he is a friend of mine. I played a game against him last week. He kicked the dog-snot out of me! well done, T-Ork! Well done!

Cheers! Copeland

Hey, T-Ork: I'm going to be at Dragon's Lair tomorrow. Up for a rematch? Same game system and points? Let me know...

[LordGrise]

Well. Interesting mailbag. My thanks to all for rendering your opinions and experiences. To elaborate a bit on the situation, No, I had not recieved any warning about verboten subjests whilst at the GW store; it was my first time there. A politely (and quietly) phrased request would have met with a much more compliant response on my part. My entire complaint in the situation is the manner in which the expectation was delivered, not the fact that it occurred.

Now to a few specific responses:

Wildey... trolling again, I see. "petulant child...?" and you weren't even there. Tsk. A touch obvious, don't you think?

MiteyHeroes: Thank you for the temperate and reasoned response.

Mr. Copeland: I am indeed in the SA area; I'll be up at Gamelot Sunday (Feb 12) from 12 to 6. I'll be the guy in the long-sleeve red pullover with flames on the arms. Introduce yourself and I'll buy you a soda. Hope to see you!

And last but certainly not least... T-Ork-Amada... I wouldn't want you to be unclear as to who I am. As noted above, I'll be at Gamelot from 12 to 6; shouldn't be hard to find me. Introduce yourself, I'll buy you a soda as well. If tomorrow isn't good for you, I expect I'll be at Gamelot every Sunday this month.

[Chris Copeland]

Lord Grise, I am impressed that you referred to MiteyHeroes response as "tempered and reasoned." I thought it was as well! I spent the day (Saturday) gaming at Dragon's Lair. I hope you had a good time at Game-A-Lot. I'm more of a beer drinker than a soda drinker (in case we ever meet). I don't really go to Game-A-Lot because most of my friends from Central Command migrated over to DL after Central Command closed... but if you are ever headed over to DL please let me know and we'll get in a game. I'd also happily play you at the GW store if you ever find yourself ready to return there. The best way to set up games in the San Antonio area is via the Facebook group known as the Gaming Garage ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/175757472448931/ )... The Garage is the biggest tabletop club in SA.

From what you posted, I gathered that you overreacted. My response to that is: Yeah! We've all been there. It happens. Does that mean there are any villains in this story? No. We're just people doing the best we can... Cheers! Copeland

[daboarder]

guy treats you like an actual human being and you get upset?

concrete pills, look into them.

[Deadlift]

Personally I always make a point of befriending and getting to know any manager / store owner of hobby shops I frequently use. It may sound like sucking up but a little friendliness goes a long way and its surprising how much these people can do for you in return. I would say had this situation arisen with myself it would have been a far more light hearted affair and would have ended with me apologising jovially.
My advice as far as store managers go is get to know these "Hobby Lords" they generally will bend over backwards to help appreciative customers.

[Wildeybeast]

Wildey... trolling again, I see. "petulant child...?" and you weren't even there. Tsk. A touch obvious, don't you think?

Really? Trolling again? That would imply that not only am I trolling now, I have trolled (if that is the correct term) in the past. So in order to avoid you looking like someone who can't come up with reasonable defence for his action, I'd like you to explain clearly how I am trolling now and give me a quote of when I have trolled in the past. I don't troll, I have better things to do with my life. What I am doing is pointing out to you that your behaviour was unacceptable and you were in the wrong, not the employee, something I noticed you have yet to admit. Do you honestly think you are in the right here and all the fault lies with the employee?
Yes referring to your actions as those of petulant child was obvious, I quite agree. But that is exactly what they resembled. Someone told you off (though I'd hardly call it that) and you got embarassed because you knew you were in the wrong. Rather than apologising, you blamed someone else and stormed off. That is exactly what petualnt children do (believe me, I see it every day). And now, still unable to swallow your pride, you came to the internet, looking for someone to jusitfy your actions. And because I point out that you were in the wrong and thus refuse to justify your world view, you dismiss my statements as those of a troll. If you aren't prepared/able to defend your actions with a reasoned statement (and 'the guy shouted at me so I got angry' is not a reasoned defence) then you probably shouldn't come whining on the interent.



No, I had not recieved any warning about verboten subjests whilst at the GW store; it was my first time there.

Are you serious? I'm assuming you are an intelligent adult, rather than an actual petulant child, so do you really need prior notice that discussing the competition in someone's store is bad manners? Should they put up signs with simple pictures about what behaviour is and isn't acceptable? 'Bring your own army books as we are not a library, please wash before entering the store, no drinking the paints, no diving in the shallow end', that sort of thing? Do you have people in your workplace telling you how to behave? Do you realise how silly you are making yourself look?


A politely (and quietly) phrased request would have met with a much more compliant response on my part.
What exactly did he say that wasn't polite? And are you basically saying that if the guy hadn't embarassed you in public, you would have accepted that discussing the competition in a GW store was impolite, apoogised and not come and whined on the internet? He could have dealt with it in a more personal fashion I agree, but he was under no obligation to and it made it clear to everyone there that this sort of thing is bad form, rather than having to have the same conversation privately with other people who think it is ok beacuse no one pulled you up on it? And again I come back to the issue of why he even needed to tell you in the first place? Why didn't you realise it was impolite?

[LordGrise]

Wildey... you prove my point beyond my expectations.

[lattd]

Im really not sure how he's trolling tbh, we do the same thing at work if someone is discussing competition.

[T-ORK-amada]

LordGrise, I must admit I made an error on my part. You clearly state your name as "Craig". If that is your name, I clearly have you confused with someone else and am pretty sure I do not know you. It was me be impetuous and quickly judging you by the actions of another person when I called you an "asshat". For that I apologize. I do still think that the manager was in the right, but I should not go around blindly calling people an asshat. As for your offer, I refuse to go to Gamelot for my own personal reason, but if you ever swing by Dragons Lair, Ill by YOU a soda.

[Wildeybeast]

Wildey... you prove my point beyond my expectations.

I say, bravo, what a fantastic comeback. Such a passionate, reasoned and above all succint defence of your actions and the perfect counter to my points. Is that really the best you can do? No attempt at all to justify your actions beyond 'anyone who disagrees with me a is a troll'? You really have made yourself look rather silly with this whole affair. I think it's quite clear to anyone reading this thread that you just need to grow up, accept you were in the wrong and go apologise to the guy. What a shame you are apparently the only one not to realise this.

[wittdooley]

Wildey... you prove my point beyond my expectations.

Note to you: presenting articulate and well reasoned responses to people's petulant Internet diatribes is not trolling. Much like Wildey, I applaud your ability to respond with such style and grace. Bravo to you sir. Bravo.

[Duke]

And... Thread closed.