Neural Whips, Insta Death or no?

[doom-kitten]

So I just bought and am itching to use Repentia but wanted to figure this out first, the neural whip which is the main weapon of the Repentia Mistress reads as; Neural weapons follow the rules for power weapons. In addition, hits caused by a neural whip against non-vehicle units strike at Strength 8 and roll to wound against the opponents unmodified Leadership characteristic instead of their toughness.
- Robin Cruddance, White Dwarf 380

So question would a neural weapon cause instant death to a target with a toughness of 4 or lower, or would this be negated as the weapon wounds against their Leadership, I have sent this question to GW but have been waiting over two weeks for an answer.

[DarkLink]

You don't roll against toughness, so toughness doesn't matter for ID. You're comparing to Leadership. I'm pretty sure there's an FAQ on this, since there are one or two other weapons in the game that follows these rules. The Callidus Assassin's neural shredder is one. I think the old Necron codex had another.

[thecactusman17]

Numerous other weapons work the same way, Strength N vs. Ld. The answer is always as follows: if the characteristic being rolled against is half or lower the weapon strength, the weapon will cause instant death. For leadership weapons, this means that a weapon won't cause ID unless the target's leadership is less than half of the weapon's strength. So if Adrusabael Vect, for example, hits a Ld. 5 Beast from a beastmaster pack with his S10 Obsidian Orbs (which roll vs. Leadership) he will cause ID to the beast. However, he will merely wound on a 2+ against a model with Ld6 or greater. HOWEVER, there are a few instances in the game where Ld. can be reduced temporarily or permanently. In those cases, you roll the above against the modified leadership and use the modified leadership to determine the results. This can be especially important in Apocalypse games where numerous units with these rule interactions could potentially be on the board.

[pathwinder14]

Doesn't the rule for Instant Death specifically state the the strength of the weapon must double the Toughness (or more)? If it is toughness, then any other stat roll cannot cause Instant Death unless the weapon profile says so.

[Wolfshade]

In the Grey Knight FAQ it says:

Q: When using a Callidus Assassin's Neural Shredder, do
you use the targets Toughness or Leadership for the
purposes of working out if Instant Death applies? (p53)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.
Though it isn't covered in the SoB or Rulebook. I would say its double the Leadership value as others before me have stated

[DarkLink]

Doesn't the rule for Instant Death specifically state the the strength of the weapon must double the Toughness (or more)? If it is toughness, then any other stat roll cannot cause Instant Death unless the weapon profile says so.

But the more specific rule of the weapon itself states that you compare the strength to leadership, not toughness. It's not explicit, but logical that you would do the same for ID. Leadership is essentially replacing toughness in the normal process.

Remember, ID is a general rule. The weapon's rule in question is more specific, and specific trumps general.

[Sinistermind]

even while the specific rule is not specific enough to change the point being argued about the General rule?

while i agree it makes sense it doesnt say " you roll to wound against the leadership, and use leadership to determine instant death" if its in a FAQ somewhere then thats how it works but logic cannot be subsituted for a rule not covering all the bases, at least without calling it a house ruling

EDIT: oops i didnt notice the quote of the GK faq, all is settled

[Nachodragon]

Also, the Necron Faq states the same thing.

Q: When using an abyssal staff, do you use the target’s
Toughness or Leadership for the purposes of working
out if Instant Death applies? (p84)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.

[thecactusman17]

Not only is it in FAQs for other current similar weapons, it was actually in the Witch Hunters FAQ in regards to the Callidius Assassins weapon (at that time and through much of 5th edition the only such weapon with this sort of attack), so this type of ruling has appeared in conjunction with Sisters of Battle before.

[doom-kitten]

Thanks guys, had a feeling it was a dumb question but asked anyways. I'd never had much interest in the assassins when using Witch Hunters and am not to concerned about their loss. I was more confused about them changing the Neural Whips rules and why they would do that, they seemed rather pointless now, don't get me wrong power weapons are nice but when they used to strike at Int 5 and with 4 attacks and now their a str 8 against Ld and Int 3.