Raven Guard Army Help

[doom-kitten]

So despite already owning SoB and DE, I have been fighting the temptation of building a Space Marine army for some years now. I used to own some generic marines but sold them in favour of the Sororitas, then a few years back I read and saw some of the fluff for the Raven Guard. I also recently found the new Raven Guard Forge world stuff and am now given up what I view as a pointless resistance and am given into the inevitable. From what I know of the Raven Guard, their a depleted Chapter that relies heavily of Scouts and stealth based tactics but how would one go about building a themed army of them. I imagine drop pods and assualt marines would be a key factror and whats marines weapons and vehicles should I avoid for a properly themed army.

I intend to purchase and use the Raven Guard coversion pack offered by Forge World, well more like a few of the packs. Right now I'm thinking to avoid Terminators and Heavy tanks and focus mostly on Scouts, Landspeeders, Assualt marines and Tactical squads wth DPs, I know I want atleast to scout units and am leaning towards Snipers and a small bike squad, and possibly a Land Speeder Storm to do some shenanigans. So comments? Thoughts? Advice? All would be appreciated but keep in mind I'm looking for themed not competive.

[Wolfshade]

I think you are on the right thought, hit and run, lightning raids are the way for a fluffy raven guard.
Possibly to get more assault marines maybe play as countas Blood Angels, while avoiding Death Company & Baal Preds etc.

[doom-kitten]

I was thinking of more using a count as Kayvan Captain, I don't really like the Kayvan sculpt so I was gonna make my own version so I could get the Chapter tactics. Basically I'm planning a 3 man scout bike squad, one unit of scouts with snipers, two tactical squads in DPs, a dreadnought in DP and an assualt Squad with Chaplain. I want a vangaurd squad because, though I could be wrong, Locator beacons with the Heroic Intervention might be a sneaky card to play. I don't think Blood Angels would be good as the Red Thirst rule could potentially cause me some grief.

[SotonShades]

You are pretty much on track. Obvious choices are characters like Shrike from the SM codex (giving himself and his squad Infiltrate, as well as giving your entire army Fleet instead of Combat Tactics... can't remember the last time I saw someone choose to fail a morale check anyway!) and Korvydae from IA8 (allowing giving himself and any assault squad he joins Hit and Run, forcing you to take a minimum of 1 scout squad and allowing you to take assault marines as troop choices). If you haven't got a copy of IA8 all ready, I would deffinitely reccommend reading through the Raven Guard section of it, though I doubt it would be worth buying JUST for that background and the rules for a single character.

Models wise; Being a Codex chapter, Raven Guard do have Terminators and Tanks, but don't field them quite as often, preferring to keep them for defense while attacking from the skies and shadows. That said, any and all oppertunities to take Lightning Claws (Sergeants, Assaullt Terminators, HQ characters) should be taken over power weapons, power fists etc. Possible exception being Thunderhammers. Personnally I would love to see a stealthy Dreadnought :P

[Ulthwé Guardian]

Brilliant a new Raven Guard player!! I'm gonna start collecting them to in April when Forgeworld comes to the Excel Centre (London).

Looks like you've got some good advice already that I'd would just repeating anything else that other people have just said.

Other sneaky stuff you could do is gain some synergy by using Kayvaan Shrike and Korvydae, this will allow you to gain fleet and special rule and make Assault Marines troop choices. Though I might consult your opponent on this one before hand, they may not like GW and FW rules being mixed up like this.

With Kayvaan Shrike, sure his the ability to infiltrate within 18" of the enemy, then move 12", fleet D6 and assault 6" with his jetpack boys then do some serious harm. But don't forget Shrike can join other squads and infiltrate with them, e.g. Terminators for durability, Tactical Marines for claiming objectives etc... Could be handy infiltrating a Devastator Squad on a high sets of ruins to gain cover and a high view point. I haven't played any of these tricks yet but I can't see any reason for them not to work rule wise, but if anyone can prove otherwise then feel free to say so.

Terminators, although not fluffy for Raven Guard are beneficial with Kayvaan Shrike, stick them in a Land Raider variant and you're now able to assault and fleet into an enemy unit.

Lastly Land Speeder Storms are great using out flank with Multi-Meltas.

Hope some of this stuff helps,
Good luck dude!

[Wildeybeast]

I run RG and everything already said is pretty much spot on, though I would perhaps add that RG do have access everything a normal marine army, so you can take whatever you want, including vehicles (their home planet is a forge world after all)The key with fluff-true Raven Guard is having a fast, hard hitting army and out flank your enemy, but if you do this, be warned that you need to support your units very carefully. I tear up 'elite' armies like Eldar and CSM, but struggle against hordes like Orks and Tyranids as you don't have the number of attacks or bolter shots to take them down. I play a drop pod venerable dread and drop pod tac squad, with another in a rhino (as FW does some lovely vehicle doors). I have Shrike in a big assault squad, along with a jet pack chaplain. Being able to come on from the side, move 12 and then assault, re-rollling hits is a great tool. For further character, I run 10 combat scouts and 5 snipers in a LS storm. For my elite unit I either go with a command squad in drop pod or lightning claw armed termies as lightning claws are very fluffy. I'd also recommend checking out some of the Horus Heresy stuff for more Raven Guard fluff. Raven's Flight is a good audio drama and Deliverance Lost has just been released, which is their first full book.

[wittdooley]

I agree with most everything folks have said.

And, despite the fact that I wasn't a very big fan of Deliverance Lost, I think it does a fairly good job of establishing the Raven Guard modus operandi.

Further, I think using the Blood Angels as counts as works if you fluff your list out properly. I can't quite reconcile who you'd count as for your leader (Mephiston and Astorath are clearly no go's), but, if I recall correctly, Corvidae's rules from IA:9 aren't half bad.

Also...whenever you get around to it, I may have some of the Raven Guard Backpacks lying around if you want to use some for Sternguard. Holla at me when you get to building.

[ChacoStylez]

Don't forget to check out the Forgeworld Land Speeder Tempest and the drop pod that allows your dreadnought to assault on the turn it makes landfall, nice additions if your opponent allows it!

Also, check out Helion Rain, another great audio drama starring the Raven Guard vs. Tyranids, one of my favorites. It should give you some inspiration when it comes to dealing with horde armies. :D

[doom-kitten]

Thanks guys, am currently working on a list, and will post it in the apporiate forum thread, an using vanilla marines as Blood Angels seems abit weird and I'd hate to have my army abandon it's carefully chosen deployment and tactics when it goes Red Thirst on me. Mostle focusing on Scouts, TMs, AMs, DP's, Bikes and Landspeeders thou I want atleast one dreadnought and a tank cause I love tanks. HEIL PANZER!

Oh and Wittdooley the backacks would be awesome but not sure how I'd get them from you.

[Kawauso]

Depending on the group you play with, have you thought about using any Imperial Armour stuff?

Specifically, I'm thinking about Shadow Captain Korvydae.
He has the same stats as Shrike, except he has artificer armour so he's tougher with 2+/4++ saves. He also has a thunder hammer (and melta bombs), which is pretty badass on a jump-pack model - there's a FW model for him which is pretty nice ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/rgcom7.jpg ).

Additionally, he confers Hit and Run to any jump pack-equipped unit he's with, and he makes Assault Squads a troop choice (though he requires that you take a mandatory Scout Squad - which sounds fine by you)! Putting him in a squad of Vanguard with some storm shields and maybe lightning claws on the sarge would make for a pretty solid unit, especially when they have Hit and Run.

All of that and he comes in at 40 points -less- than Shrike.

I think if you wanted a really thematic Raven Guard army, Korvydae is worth considering. Not that Shrike isn't thematic...but jump pack troops! How great is that? And you don't even have to play counts-as Blood Angels. :)

[doom-kitten]

Not gonna lie, I saw that thunderhammer captain and dropped a kitten sized loaf but have always felt abit iffy when it comes to Int 1 characters seems to easy to squish em before they can take a swing with their god hammers.When I say kitten I mean six month old kitten that has eaten one to many cheeseburgers.

[Kawauso]

That is true, but think about this:

HQ: Shadow Captain Korvydae
FA: Vanguard Veteran Squad w/ jump packs; Sgt. w/ lightning claws; 4x storm shields

405 pts. total gets you a 6-man unit of jump infantry that can (if you want to chance it) assault off of a deep strike (I'm not saying Heroic Intervention is great in a vanilla marine army).
They have one model with 3 wounds and a 2+ armour save, as well as a 4++
They have 4 models with 3++ saves.
They have base 3 thunder hammer (at WS 6) and 3 lightning claw attacks.
The whole unit has Hit and Run.

Seems like a pretty strong harassment/tarpit unit with some pretty decent combat potential to me. :)

By comparison, if you took a regular Captain with the same wargear as Korvydae, he would cost 20 pts. more and wouldn't give the vets. Hit and Run.

[doom-kitten]

That is true, but think about this:

HQ: Shadow Captain Korvydae
FA: Vanguard Veteran Squad w/ jump packs; Sgt. w/ lightning claws; 4x storm shields

405 pts. total gets you a 6-man unit of jump infantry that can (if you want to chance it) assault off of a deep strike (I'm not saying Heroic Intervention is great in a vanilla marine army).
They have one model with 3 wounds and a 2+ armour save, as well as a 4++
They have 4 models with 3++ saves.
They have base 3 thunder hammer (at WS 6) and 3 lightning claw attacks.
The whole unit has Hit and Run.

Seems like a pretty strong harassment/tarpit unit with some pretty decent combat potential to me. :)

By comparison, if you took a regular Captain with the same wargear as Korvydae, he would cost 20 pts. more and wouldn't give the vets. Hit and Run.

First off I want apologize here my coma button is broken. Vanguard Squads cannot benefit from Heroic Intervention if joined by an IC and I was planning to use the locator beacons carried by Scout bikers to accurately deepstrike the Vanguard I'm not sure if this is a legal tactic but I have yet to find anything that prohibits it. I may still use Korvdae but alongside a Jump squad by placing him behind a marine I can get him into combat (cheesy I know but Int 1 ICs irrate me epicly). I can also use locators on DPs for my Vanguard anyways a question can terminators use Locators? Or do they have to use Teleport homers exclusively?

Also with the bikers I find the Cluster mines very fluffy and a cute trick for objectives basically Eldar jetbikes swarm the objective last turn and kaboom...surprise! I'm thinking of taking 10 scouts and combat squading them 5 with snipers and camo cloaks and 5 with CCW and a landspeeder storm. For marines I was gonna do a melta tactical squad with DP and a another bike squad with melta attack bike one assualt squad and potentially some vangaurd thou I'm more leaning towards sterngaurd in DP. I'm not feeling wto IC's thos a chaplain might be nice and I want atleast two tanks and a Dreadnought. Still working out the list and am going to buy IA 8 on Tuesday my local GW conveniently has a copy but unfortunately is closed mondays.

Most chaps I ask are looking forward to my army and have no problems with IA armies four of the guys actually use them (Eldar Iron Warriors and the other two I forget).

[Kawauso]

Locator beacons can guide any Deep Strike. Teleport homers only work for teleportation (terminators) - so you're good!

Forgot about the bit with Heroic Intervention and ICs, though. :( Really seems like something that should be allowed - it's not like Heroic Intervention is crazy good in the vanilla codex...and even in the BA book Vanguard are a pretty costly unit as soon as you start giving them any sort of gear.

Anyway, looking forward to whatever your list winds up becoming, and hearing the results. Raven Guard are pretty cool, I think. :)

[Levitas]

Check out Sons of Corax forum too, its the home of the Raven Guard :cool: A massive wealth of Raven Guard tacticas, hobby and other stuff.

[doom-kitten]

XD Thanks for the tips, pretty sure I'm just gonna drop the change for both Shrike and the other captain whats-his-nuts (yes I forgot his name), I intend to do atleast to armies, one pre-heresy and one representing the current chapter. By the way anyone know what Corvax would look like and a suitable method of making him? What weapons and such, oh and pictures would be sick.

[Wildeybeast]

He has super duper jetpack and a whip that he had top mechanicum engineers make specially for him. It slices space marines in half and is awesome. According the Black Library he is Native American and looks like this.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/poster-deliverance-lost.jpg

As for how to make the whip, I'd recommend looking at the following models for some imperial whips.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat660006a&prodId=prod1300024a

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1140004&prodId=prod1140005a

There is also the lash whip on the Hive Tyrant which is much bigger, but rather alien looking.


It's worth noting that the RG geneseed has a mutation which turns their skin pure white and hair and eyes jet black, something that gets worse the longer they live, but this is a result of Corax chumping around with the geneseed meaning your Heresy era marines will look fairly normal.

[Wolfshade]

Looking at that BL cover makes me think that the elite RG assault squads could have wings, maybe modelled on the BA Sanguinary guard back packs, but those only have one thruster not the two as shown :o

Also as for the whip Master-Crafted Power Whip (power weapon)

[doom-kitten]

Looking at that picture makes me think i can do a corvax model, he is the least extreme looking primarch I've seen and I have loads of Nueral whips and Flagellants but maybe need to lengthen them a wee bit. Just need a model to base him off, and yes it'll be the first thing I've ever converted. Oh and is the other arm a powerfist? It's got all crackly lightning but the angle makes it hard to tell.

[lattd]

I would say his other hand looks like a lightning claw it seems to have a curved point on it.

[Wildeybeast]

Lightning claw makes sense, given the current RG fondness for them.

[Levitas]

Corax's original armament is the Ravens talons. They are damaged in the dropsite massacre, and in the audio book 'Ravens Flight' he uses a power whip and heavy bolter substitue. By the time we get to the HH book Deleverance lost he is using single lightning claw and power whip.

At some point after the heresy they must get repaired as eventually they find their way into Shadow Captain Shrikes hands (ha ha literally). Quite what a 3rd company captain is doing with them is a mystery. We can only assume the Chapter Master rocks out with a whip. Gave Thorpe is butchering the RG fluff anyways, but yeah Raven Guard like Lightning claws as a nod to their Primarch.

[lattd]

I thought kyvan got the claws because of his amazing achievements.

[Levitas]

I thought kyvan got the claws because of his amazing achievements.

I'm sure he did. But if they are the actual claws of the primarch then what on earth do the Captains of the 1st and 2nd companies use? And the Chapter Master?

Theres no solid fluff on any of these, so we just don't know. What happened is Shrike was the first RG character so they got excited and gave him the Ravens Talons. He may follow a path similar to Lysander and end up being the Chapter master or first captain. Who knows!