The Appeal of WFB

[Tobs6311]

Hey guys, I recently started a new blog that is primarily WFB centered, and I posted about it under the modeling section of the forums. After some "encouragement" to begin posting on the forums, I'm gonna give it my first go (this is also a post on my blog, but I thought it might be worthy to begin a discussion here). Hopefully it will kick start some of your imaginations and influence you to post about what makes the Old World so appealing to you.

Thinking back to a particular post on BoLS where one of the arguments against WFB was that the background/fluff isn't very original, and 40k is much deeper. So why do I find the Old World such a compelling setting? I think the idea of a 17/18th century European empire transplanted into a world filled with magic, mayan-inspired lizards (visited chichen itza a couple summers ago...amazing. Absolutely dumb struck by what our ancestors created (even with the constant badgering of mexicans trying to sell me cheap trinkets...)), arthurian knights, elven mystique, human/beast hybrids, egyptian undead, vampiric lords, and vikings infused with the power of chaos all waging war on an epic scale is fascinating. For a history/fantasy buff like me, this is as good as it gets. Where else can you wage a battle over an ancient magical artifact with elves of the forest allied with a feudal army from a nearby keep against undead hordes led by a blood thirsty vampire? Where else can norse raiders seeking treasure (a la pizzaro but with giant axes and furs) become ambushed by lizards sallying forth on dinosaurs? Where else can a Holy Roman Empire inspired mass of men, backed by tanks, griffins and mages wage war against a horde of blood crazed dark knights and creatures from our darkest nightmares? The possibilities are almost endless...and GW has so much more they could work with- imagine samurai of nippon attacking a grecian-inspired phalanx (or roman legionaries led by a khornate emperor)...the historical references mixed with tolkien-ist fantasy is simply enthralling. Not to take anything away from 40k; what they've done with that universe, with support from novels, supplements and a sister company is equally awe inspiring. But for anyone with any historical interest, I think that WFB offers an incredible amount of opportunity to indulge in martial conflicts that never occurred, and, with a little imagination, make those real.

What keeps bringing you guys back to WFB? What scenarios are you most interested in, and would most like to see?

JTS

[eldargal]

I agree entirely (though one small nitpick, the Old World is more 14th-16th centuries than 17th/18th). One thing people cite in favour of 40k, that you can make your own worlds, is certainly a plus but it also makes the setting a little impersonal. The claim you can't fit your own stories into the WFB world is also ludicrous. Take the Empire, it is a huge place, sure you might not be able to make another large city like Altdford or Nuln but you can make your own noble family with their own estates. I have a Countess from Nuln (not an Elector-Countess) who has an estate and properties within Nuln and extensive lands outside the city, just like real nobility would have had. There are enough towns and villaged in those lands to furnish any number of scenarios and they are spread out enough that any number of enemies could invade (few noble estates were entirely contiguous).

The same applies to almost all the other races, there is plenty of space for new Orc warlords, Dark Elf noble families, High Elf noble families, small lizardmen 'temple-towns' etc.

Sure you can make your own system or even sector (or Craftworld) in 40k and I have done) but it still feels much more impersonal, if it gets destroyed no one will even notice. Whereas having a connection with, say, Nuln or Saphery or Hag Graef helps ground it more in the established fluff. That is much more difficult in 40k as you can't easily link your planet with an established one as they are by definition seperate planets. Hence the impersonal bit.:rolleyes:

[Tobs6311]

Ah my mistake, I was thinking more of the 30 years war/english civil war with the proliferation of firearms...but yes the knights/archers/swordsmen would throw it back a couple hundred years, thank you for the correction.

JTS

[eldargal]

Well as I said it was a small nitpick, and it is easy to confuse the periods but the Empire is very much a 1450-1550 period, Bretonnia more 1350-1450 etc. There is a bit of 17th century mixed in though. I'm an archaeologist and history obsessive so I have trouble letting these things slip by without comment.:rolleyes:

[Wildeybeast]

I agree entirely (though one small nitpick, the Old World is more 14th-16th centuries than 17th/18th). One thing people cite in favour of 40k, that you can make your own worlds, is certainly a plus but it also makes the setting a little impersonal. The claim you can't fit your own stories into the WFB world is also ludicrous. Take the Empire, it is a huge place, sure you might not be able to make another large city like Altdford or Nuln but you can make your own noble family with their own estates. I have a Countess from Nuln (not an Elector-Countess) who has an estate and properties within Nuln and extensive lands outside the city, just like real nobility would have had. There are enough towns and villaged in those lands to furnish any number of scenarios and they are spread out enough that any number of enemies could invade (few noble estates were entirely contiguous).

The same applies to almost all the other races, there is plenty of space for new Orc warlords, Dark Elf noble families, High Elf noble families, small lizardmen 'temple-towns' etc.

Sure you can make your own system or even sector (or Craftworld) in 40k and I have done) but it still feels much more impersonal, if it gets destroyed no one will even notice. Whereas having a connection with, say, Nuln or Saphery or Hag Graef helps ground it more in the established fluff. That is much more difficult in 40k as you can't easily link your planet with an established one as they are by definition seperate planets. Hence the impersonal bit.:rolleyes:

There are also large chunks of the Warhammer world which are left balnk, I think deliberately so, which leaves plenty of space for writing your own stories. Take the Border Princes, a human territory with no fixed state or leadership, where new towns are continually being founded and destoryed and it's position in the worlds means it borders pretty much all the significant territories so can be invaded by most people.

Whta I really love is the unique character of all the armies anad how the models (particualrly the new stuff) represent this. It is just the right mixture of fantasy archetypes, real world inspiration and bonkers stuff to make each army feel like it really has a character of its own and really lives up to it's background. Keep your soulless robots, alien bugs and stoic GM soldiers and give me flying statues and goblin suicide launchers.

[eldargal]

Indeed.:) The only reason I don't base something in the Border Kingdoms myself is half a dozen players in my games club already do that and I wanted to be different.:rolleyes: But even beyond Border Kingdoms there are Empire, High Elf and Dark Elf colonies all accross the world. Ditto for Skaven and it isn't hard to see Dwarves or Chaos Dwarves doing the same.

[Wildeybeast]

Absolutely there are loads of named but barely explored places. I liked Dreadfleet giving us just a brief glimpse into life in Sartosa. Anyone who tells you 40k is better because they can't create stuff fantasy is just looking for excuses because they don't want to create stuff in fantasy.

[Nightstalker]

creating your own planet is pretty easy to do, finding your own place in an already described world is much more challenging and fun.

My empire army is from Sylvania, lead by one of the Lords who was invited to the banquet were Vlad von Carstein poisoned all the barons and lords who were against him, and died when he arrived at his castle. later when an amateur necromancer (and former death mage) stumbled upon his castle, the Lord was revived, the exotic poison still in his veins, turning him into something thats neither dead nor alive. The lords memories still in the past he got a grudge against vampires and is on a mission to rebuild his rightful lands. The necromancer, who the lord sees as his private mage and counselor who was responsible for the army keeps fooling the lord so he can do his private studies in black arts. the clouded mind from the lord is still in the past so he doesnt notice that some of his soldiers are more dead than alive (he still wonders why they dont respond to his questions). A Priest of Morr who was investigating in that area, since he heard the Lord´s plan to drive out the von Carsteins and all the the other vampires and foul creatures, until Sylvania can be added to the empire again, joined forces, forcing the necromancer to hide his dark secrets from the priest, to stay out of trouble. The still living sylvanians are very grim and fear the forces of the vampires more than they fear the undead creatures in their rows. (i know im crazy, i just love to invent my own stories) offered me a lot to do conversions.

My chaos forces were based on a cult of Slaanesh army, so i painted all my marauders like they are only wearing some loincloth, and very crude weapons. They all got a brand on their butt showing whos slaves these were, so no other Dark elve could claim them for himself. The shields of the marauders are either red/blue or white/ blue, which are also the shield colours of some of my skelleton units of my vampire counts army. there is a lot more. in my armies

[slk28850]

What first got me into fantasy was the new(7th ed) Vampire Counts and the constant badgering of my friend for three years. Loved the models and the story. Recently GWs push to put a center piece model in every army has rubbed me the right way. I play both 40k and fantasy but I prefer fantasy. Now that I've started I can't stop!!

[LordMcSpank]

For me it's the vast range of different armies from different parts of the world. It's funny, despite the fact that 40k takes place over a whole galaxy, there seems to be much less variety in army choices . You have your choice of 6 different Marine armies (plus Chaos), a handful of somewhat friendly Xenos races and a few more sinister Xenos races, and that's about it.

In WFB, however, you have 16 different races to choose from that all are very distinctive and play differently. Even the similar races (all 3 elves, 2 human armies, 2 undead armies, etc) each have their own unique background and play style. I think this lends itself to much more variety on the tabletop, whether you are just playing in your friendly weekly league or even in a tournament setting. It's much harder to build your army to defeat a specific opponent when you could literally be facing any one of 16 unique forces at any time.

Anyway that about sums up my fascination with the WFB world. 40k is is entirely stale to me right now and I hope 6th edition can peak my interest again. For the time being I have my Fantasy armies (and Warmachine) to keep my busy.

[Redegeneration]

I agree, 40k does really limit the army diversity. That's why I enjoy Fantasy because you have the different armies, but you got the background fluff for the world and each army to mix and match to your hearts content. Its like a choose your own adventure book :p

[Lord Sigmar]

[QUOTE=LordMcSpank;178624]
In WFB, however, you have 16 different races to choose from that all are very distinctive and play differently. Even the similar races (all 3 elves, 2 human armies, 2 undead armies, etc) each have their own unique background and play style. I think this lends itself to much more variety on the tabletop, whether you are just playing in your friendly weekly league or even in a tournament setting. It's much harder to build your army to defeat a specific opponent when you could literally be facing any one of 16 unique forces at any time.

My thoughts exactly

[Warmaster Primus]

I've found that Fantasy has a bit more diversity when it comes to opponents.

[kargie]

I play both, but there are a few reasons I prefer Fantasy to 40k.
Personally, I like fantasy better than sci-fi in general, though I like both.

But in terms of playing, the proliferation of MEQ armies (half of 40k is MEQ) makes 40k less interesting to play. Fantasy armies don't have as many similarities, and players seem to be more evenly spread than in 40k. In my more regular gaming group, there are only 2 MEQ armies out of 6, which is better, but when I go out it skyrockets to 50-60%. Fantasy just doesn't do that, makes for more interesting games when you play against many different things rather than power armour after power armour army.

[Orminah]

The biggest appeal to me is the imagery of ranked warriors slamming into eachother and fighting in a bloody melee. Nothing beats a game of Fantasy with some Amon Amarth playing in the backround. :)

[Kaiserdean]

I think you're right that there is a lot of Tolken influence in the Warhammer world (and the fantasy genre as well) but 40k is largely influenced by the Heinlein novels, among others.

At my LGS, there's a lot of varied reasons why people play. I consider myself much more of a sci-fi fan than fantasy, but I like WHFB much more. I like the ranks of troops, models and the fluff of the "special" characters a lot more.

[HaleysRedComet]

I started with 40k but got into Fantasy a few years later. I likd that leadershil mattered and that you could destroy armies by taking out a few models and forcing them to run. Not as true as it was in sixth ed but I still like it. I also really like the painting experience, and playing Brettonia allowed me to have an army without a cohesive color scheme - which is awesome.

[DanteSuper]

I love Fantasy for the fluff and ehhmmm the Fantasy (Monsters, etc) ! and Chaos... :D

[Warmaster Primus]

I have to agree with Kargie, the proliferation of MEQs is a bit much these days. It also doesn't help that non MEQ armies get the shaft much of the time.

[Enigmai]

I play both games during many editions and my preferred game has changed depending on how much I like or dislike that particular edition or how drastically the power shifted with a new army book or codex.

The two games are currently evenly played by me but with rumors of 6th edition 40K and new army books galore rumored down the pipe for WFB who knows what the future holds....

[Stepfan]

I switch favorites myself, but more often then not it's fantasy that holds my interest... even with edition shifts.

I guess a lot of it might be the lack of an MEQ type situation, where half the armies seem to be the same army. Add in the dislike I have for tanks and well... I guess the aesthetic is a huge appeal.

Personally I think both have a very well designed story. And despite both being heavily influenced by other materiels I think both have a rather unique story line at this point.

[Blaznak]

i like all the little bits of flavor and fluff that show up. Drachenfels, to me, has more to say about WHF than many of the newer stories. Gotrek and Felix really bring the world to life. etc.
Plus you have night goblin fanatics and pump wagons. and Dark Elves ridiing dinosaurs that live in the frozen chaos wastes. How cool is that?

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I'm an archaeologist

Did you get hired then? Congrats. What univeristy are you working at? Is it a lectureship or what?

[Ceramic Teapot]

One of the reasons that fantasy has become my game of choice is that I like the look of a fantasy battle more then a 40k game. The look of ranked up troops beats blobs of guys any day in my book. I also love the magic phase in fantasy, it's so much easier for me to remember when all my spells go off in the same phase (I always forget spells in 40k).

[Overdose]

I have played WFB for nearly 14 years. I tried 40k, but starting in 4th, it just became too bland and simple. Fantasy has all the tactical movement and huge combats (especially now) that are just awesome to see on the board.

And the shooting phase isn't the end-all of the game.

[pyroclasm]

Having an army of Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos, that just look badass, led by sorcerers of unparalleled power. That's the appeal for me

[muggins]

The claim that fantasy is just LOTR is very tiring. Neckbeards want GUNS AND TANKS IN SPAAAAAAAAAACE but really the story is just as derivative.

The FB fluff has a lot of great things going for it; the constant loom of Chaos, the actual 'good guys', the lack of space ****s performing genocides. The 'darkness' of the FB world is something that really draws you in without being nearly as over the top as grimdark 40k.

I do love 40k, but I have an intense dislike for the fluff haters.

[Dyrnwyn]

I like the darkly humorous aspects of Fantasy, and the fact that it isn't blacker than black grimdark like 40k. I like the Wood Elves portrayal as fae monsters with alien morality rather than arrogant humans with pointy ears - I like the Forest Spirits and the 'sentient forest' aspects of Athel Loren. I like a lot of the little setting details, like Mordheim. I'm not terribly fond of the current rules and scenarios, but hey, there's always Mordheim until 9th edition/the new Wood Elf book comes out.

[Brakkart]

I love the look of the troops ranked up in units, great blocks of them it appeals to the Ancient History buff in me. And I LOVE the characters. Warhammer Fantasy has so many great characters going for it, even the good guys get gritty and mean like Gotrek & Felix, or Alith Anar (seriously if you've not read it yet, read Shadow King, it's one of the best revenge stories I've ever read). You have Lord Kroak who's spirit is so damn stubborn he's still around in his bones centuries after his body died!

And the bad guys... wow, where to start. from a former elven princess who's become a 6 armed monster in Dechala, to world shakers like Nagash. We've got Malekith (and his mum!), and in Prince Sigvald a warrior who the song "You're so vain" could have been written about.

The storylines are truly epic stuff, the Storm of Chaos book was amazing and I wish they would do more like that.

[black_numenorean]

for me it is all about the idea of commanding a large high model count army in a fantasy setting. I love medival era and fantasy equally so WFB is perfect. I dont really like moving around solo models all the time or skirmish setup in 40k or warmahordes. I love warriors of choas, skaven, and empire!!!!

[T-ORK-amada]

For me, its the mass armies lining up to do battle, the large monsters rampaging the battle field, and the tactical situations that must be thought out. Also, some of the characters stories are awesome. Wolfrik's story is amazing for those who have not read it!

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

so many things draw me to WHFB. The looks, the fluff, the huge armies, the mechanics. I started the hobby w/ 40k about 2 years ago, despite wanting to play Fantasy from my experience in playing WAR (friends insisted on 40k) but it just never grabbed me (possibly a combination of it being a list-building game and the community being the way they are...). I finally gave Fantasy a shot this past summer and have been loving it since.

In the end, the true appeal to the game itself (if i were to ignore the fluff and flavor) is the mechanics and how balanced the game is and is inherently made "fair" by so many great equalizers. Of course, that's just 8th Edition. Who knows how I'll feel after 9th edition...

[fortunesfool]

This might seem like a simple thing but I started playing WFB (back in the second or third edition - orangey cover) because it just looked more colourful and fun to play. 40k was just so grim and depressing looking.
Plus those ranks of well pained models never gets old.

[RoninXiC]

40k got me into fantasy back in the early 90s. Mainly because i wanted to field huuuge units of troops and not the 10 man weak infiltration units of 40k.

WH F is great because it's over the top on so many levels. Models, rules, fluff.
You either like that or not. If you don't like it, it will either grow on you or you should play something els which is not a shame!

[xxvaderxx]

I played it for years, recently it has lost its apeal to me, not because of he edition, the edition is by far the best so far, but because of the movement fase being to restrictive.