Making Heavy Bolters Awesome.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Heavy Bolters were (and remain) one of my favourite looking 40K weapons. In all incarnations, they look like they could do you a serious nuisance... but the rules are pretty poor. I don't know of anyone who would recommend them for a Space Marine army, and especially not for a Tactical squad.

It occurs that the idea of the Heavy Bolter isn't that it's the GPMG the rules peg it as (not when that job is taken far more effectively by the Assault Cannon), but that it's basically a SAW-style weapon for a Marine Tactical squad. It should provide supressing, rather than eliminating firepower, forcing the enemy to keep their heads down while the Marines advance to butcher them in assault.

So, rather than 36", str 5, ap4, heavy 3, what about 24", str4, ap5, assault 3, pinning? It seems far more tactically useful to me. IG and other Imperial armies with access to Heavy Bolters would keep the old statline. This statline would represent one specially modified for Astartes engagements (much like the IG shotguns is str 3, and the Marine scout shotgun is str 4).

Thoughts?

[Denzark]

What about the old Deathwatch heavy bolter rules - Assault 3, 18"?

[doom-kitten]

Sounds interesting, not of a marine player and as the Heavy bolter is one of only three heavy weapons I get I tend to use them alot as their much better than stormbolters atleast if your not wanting to charge or move at all. I don't think they should be assualt weapon as irregardless the heavy bolter is a chunky weapon, sure a marine can leg one around but I don't think he's gonna be running into to combat blasting away more of a slow and steady walk. Making them pinning or just increasing it's ROF might be a better choice, perhaps making them rapid fire?

[mstingray]

I think increase the weapon's ROF for long range, and having a separate profile for moving. Something like
Rng | | S | |Ap| | Notes
36" | | 5 | | 4 | | Heavy 4|
18" | | 5 | | 4 | | Assault 2|

Pinning on both of them.

[TheBitzBarn]

That is as Denzark Mentioned the old Deathwatch Heavy Bolter was 36" S5 AP4 Heavy 3 or 18" S5 AP4 Assault 3 I think they were called suspensor mounted or something like that

[Subexarch]

Yup. Suspensor mounted. Tiny little anti-grav disks were fitted to the bottom of the weapon giving it the ability to fire on the move as it was much less cumbersome. I could see an assult 2 firing mode as a solution for the mighty heavy bolter. It would make devies equiped with them a seriously tempting unit as well, giving them a mobile fire support ability.

[AbusePuppy]

The problem with the Heavy Bolter isn't its statline- it actually has pretty reasonable stats, all things considered, and where you can get them cheaply (Dakka Predators, Leman Russes, Vendettas, etc) there are a fine weapon.

The problem is that because 5E strongly features tanks, you need weapons that can deal with tanks; your basic guns can already kill infantry, so taking a specialized weapon to do that is generally going to be less necessary. Since, unlike the Missile Launcher, Autocannon, etc, the Heavy Bolter is unable to hurt tanks in any realistic sense, it is virtually always bypassed in favor of more flexible guns or more specialized anti-tank weapons.

It's just like with the Meltagun itself- its stats didn't change any at all from 4E to 5E, but the shifts to what units were popular/effective in the game changed it from "second-rate alternative to plasma" to "most popular/necessary weapon in the game."

[DarkLink]

Right, heavy bolters take up slots that could be spend on anti-tank weapons. But a greater focus on anti-infantry in 6th would make them a little bit more common. I could see adding Pinning to the existing statline, and/or the psycannon style Heavy 3 or Assault 2 sorta thing. That would make them a more competitive option without making stuff like dakka predators too crazy.

[Tynskel]

assault 2 would be nice for Scouts!
I have been thinking about taking the heavy bolter for my scouts, anyhow.

[Pendragon38]

too bad sm squads cant take auto-cannons anymore like in 2nd ed. But the H bolter works good in pairs or leave it to the razorbacks

[thecactusman17]

Stop playing Marines if you want awesome heavy bolters. In addition to good ol' Scouts getting HBs that wound on a 2+, Sisters of Battle can make their entire HB-toting Retributor squad rending at the drop of a hat. Space Marines have more than enough benefits (and inexplicably keep getting better despite some xenos and chaos books being more than 5 years out of date) to justify a modest limitation to their heavy bolters.

[doom-kitten]

Ahhh Retributors, the finest HB toting unit in the game. I pretty much would hate to see Marines gain something similiar I can see how Chaos despises not getting anything like the cute new toys the Imperials get but hey that what happens when you pick the losing team. Just kidding keep trucking it chaos we need someone to kill, anywho if we're gonna talk about making HB's better why not just come up with differing ammo types like the Sternguard get. As for Chaos I figure this is merely wishlisting and seriously why does every discussion that invovles the marines "hypothetically" getting something new have anything to do with the Chaos Marines?

Hell I don't even play marines but whats the deal? Vanilla marines suck compared to the Chapter Specific Codices and I play against Chaos a good deal some of that stuff they have going on may not be wildly awesome but used properly they can pack a real punch. Not everything the Imperium gets needs a Chaos version come Chaos use your own ideas, if you wanna destroy the Imperium why you keep trying so hard to be like them?

Anywho I rant, the HB should never be an assualt weapon it's a heavy support weapon meant for laying down covering or suppressing fire, lets keep it that way. Maybe this would do:

Heavy Bolter Range 36 Str 5 AP4, Heavy 4, Pinning

:D I think that would be epic, have a more HMG feel to it.

[Wolfshade]

I think AbusePuppy hit it on the head "it actually has pretty reasonable stats, all things considered, and where you can get them cheaply [they] are a fine weapon." and goes on to state that Heavy Weapons are needed to pop tanks and since HBs can't there isn't much point in taking them unless you know you are not going to face tank.
When was it when Heavy Bolters could fire Hellfire[?] rounds which were a blast template..?
So perhaps making it an Assault weapons would enable it to be taken in an anti-infantry role again.
Though having said that BA Assault squads would be running around with a brace of these which perhaps wouldn't be great

[fuzzbuket]

Moar dakka less whakka