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Bigred
09-14-2009, 08:06 AM
It's time that I started to get into this game, but I'm trying to find the best way in.

Question 1: Warmachine or Hordes? Is there a difficulty differeence, quality of models? percentage split of the player community?

Question 2: The rules changeover? How big a deal is this? Some say to stay away for several months, while others say the changes wont be bad and I should get in now.

Help.

Faultie
09-14-2009, 09:08 AM
Buy the models you think are cool. Honestly, the inter-faction balance is so far ahead of where WH40k/WHFB is currently that you can't really choose a "bad" faction. There are sub-prime models in many factions, but that's the point of the rules changeover to MKII. I wouldn't get deep into a given faction this close to the release of the new rules set, but buying a basic army and getting started is not something I'd discourage either.

WM vs. Hordes
It really matters about what you want to play: Massive, face-smashing robots and battle-mages all decked out in armor and weapons, or (also-)massive, face-squishing monsters and warlocks that generally have more spell slinging (or at least more options, given how "animi" work), and are notably squishier, but can finagle away damage via "transfer".

I say go with the models you think are coolest. I don't feel that either mechanic is harder or better than the other. They're just different.

Caveat - If you like the Fury and the Focus mechanics, you even have 3 options for taking armies that can utilize both! Retribution of Scyrah, Searforge Commission, and Skorne can all field forces containing both mechanics. There are definite benefits to such, if you're willing to pay the points.

GentleBen
09-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Thank you for summing up my thoughts on the issue perfectly Faultie.

Does this mean I should bring 2 armies on Thursday Bigred? Maybe even assemble my Skorne boxed set? Perhaps its time I finally filled out that Press Ganger application.

Bigred
09-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Thanks Faultie, and Yes GentleBen.. pring a very small "teaching set" for me so I can go through a couple of turns and get a feel for the game-flow.

Also, I've heard you have a closet full of some of the most amazing painted Warmachine minis, but I dont see any posted here... strange :)

relasine
09-15-2009, 01:14 PM
Don't forget to ask Steve W. (aka Lux). He's a Warmachine/Hordes vet with quite a bit of Legion.

Lux
09-15-2009, 03:07 PM
I knows notsing, notsing I tells you! I can definitely help you learn the game. The one problem on my end is that legion is probably one of the worst factions to play against as a beginner simply because they play so differently from the others and break so many of the rules within the game. They're not broken in any way, but learning how to deal with them takes awhile and playing against them can become very frustrating in the meantime.

For fury vs focus: Fury is a little more versatile and flexible. However, because it's tied to the beasts, warlocks need to play closer to the front lines than warcasters, and the warlocks will lose power as their beasts die and thus their fury generation capabilities dwindle. Warcasters generate their own focus and so will maintain their strong power level even when all the jacks are dead.

In terms of faction playstyles, strengths, weaknesses, tactics, etc, there are some pretty good posts on the privateer press boards. But as a quick sum-up, trolls & khador are probably the most straightforward to get the hang of simply because they're both good at moving forward and beating face. Menoth & Skorne really start to shine once you get the hang of some of their internal synergies between units. Cryx can either be difficult or easy, depending upon the units and playstyle you go for. Running multiple bonejacks up and killing the enemy warcaster with spells from afar doesn't take too long to learn. Getting an army themed around the pirates can take longer. Legion, Cygnar, and Circle are all mixed bags. They all have some fairly point heavy units, moreso with cygnar than legion or circle. Legion & Cygnar are some of the best at mixing up their playstyles between going melee or ranged heavy, and then mixing them up again between infantry and jacks/beasts. Legion and Circle are both more "ambush" style of armies. They use their mobility, terrain benefits, and mobility spells to take the enemy apart piecemeal, either via combat or at range. They do it in very different ways, however.

In terms of shooting, the longest base-ranged guns in the game are 16" mortars for khador, and those aren't accurate. Cygnar can do some nice long ranged shooting, but the unit and game rules favor melee combat, and so for most players and warcasters, ranged elements will be a supporting part of the army and not the primary focus.

If you're really interested in getting an idea of how the rules will change in the new edition, just ask some of us. I still have my field test rules for warmachine that I can send you, and word is that the hordes field test rules will be released very soon after the official warmachine mkII rules hit the store shelves. Those playtest rules won't match up to the official ones exactly, but you should get a very good idea of where the game is going. MkII does have a lot of rules which do a lot to improve the relative balance between jacks and infantry. In Mk1, it wasn't uncommon to see just 1-2 warjacks fielded (or less) in a 750pt army. In MkII playtests, my local group with relasine often saw 4-5 jacks fielded in a comparably sized game.


Lux

thetallest
09-16-2009, 01:48 PM
Another option that hasn't been mentioned is trying out Retribution of Scyrah. Its the new army that came out this month (and in fact hasn't even been fully released yet). The rules for it are already set to Mk II (and there are adaptation rules available to play it in Mk I).

The army seems to be similar to Legion/Circle so far - strong melee and strong ranged but not quite as able to stand up to abuse as some of the more resilient armies (read Trollblood and Khador). They bypass a lot of the protection that other armies have available and look like they are going to be an effective warcaster assassination force.

I'm not an expert at this stage, however, and I'm sure that the others in this thread will correct me if I'm wrong :)

I noted that no one mentioned the Protectorate. I don't know enough about the army to discuss it sadly, but it is also out there as a possibility.

I would venture a comment on Skorne, however - in my experience Skorne is a particularly tricksy army and in the hands of a skilled opponent a very hard army to play against. I've seen it playing more of a control-style of game, which may or may not appeal.

GamerW
09-23-2009, 01:32 PM
Well I'll pass on the two pieces of advice regarding choices that have stuck in my mind:

1) You chose circle? Nice going, they're only one of the hardest factions to figure out. Good luck (I still play circle, and I still like it, but - well see #2)

2) You'll lose a lot. Don't worry. (to date, I have won one game, and almost eked out a possible victory but had to wrap up the game since the store was closing. The first victory was against someone I believe has a pretty solid reputation as being on the low end of skilled, the near kinda almost might have not been a loss victory was against a player who'd gimped himself on purpose to make it a fairer match).

It's hard, at times, to continually beat myself against a wall. The game itself is fun tho, and keeps me coming back for more (as time and finances permit)

B