Soooo....New VC book coming out.

[Dalleron]

Firstly, I've been watching WHFB from a distance since just before 8th ed came out. When I was able to play at the local GW, I managed to collect 2 armies for Fantasy. Life in general and 8th ed didn't seem to want to play nicely, but I tried to keep tabs on what's going on in the system.

Which leads to the new VC book. And it got me to thinking back. I know that there was a VC book that was new for the last edition. It was newer than a sizeable amount of armies, yet they got picked for a redo. Now I don't expect an "official response" of any sort, but what does the internet have to offer as to why they got picked.

Or toss me a link if I appear to have missed it.

[faolan]

In fact they just got a new book a short time ago. The reason for the new new one it seems, besides to flog more of a popular faction, was to take out a lot of the things that happened outside of the normal turn order.

[eldargal]

Vampire Counts are one of WFBs top sellers, so that gives them priority. They were also really badly broken (in the bad way) by 8th, going form ridiculously overpowered in 7th to barely one playable build in 8th. There is also the fact that writers choose what they want to do from a list of things that need doing, it could be VC got nabbed by Phil Kelly fairly on because he was excited to work on it.

So while it may be galling for players of armies with books already older than the 2008 7th ed VC book, it does make sense from GWs perspective to do it like this. Sales = demand = meeting demand =profitable and responsible.

[Dalleron]

That may all be well and true, but what does mean for Ogres. They were new, sucked in the previous edition, and get a new book. This new edition comes along and tells the Wood Elf book to take a long walk off a short pier. What about them? And no I don't play them.

There seems to be no reasoning to what GW does, in my eyes. How do they let armies get so far behind the rest of them. It's happened in the past, and it baffles me. You can blame popularity, but if only the big ones get pushed, how do they level the field?

Surely GW could pump out army books/fixes so that some armies aren't third world citizens.

[eldargal]

With Ogres it could be as simple as Vetock and JJ feeling inspired to do something with them, amongst other reasons. I did hear rumours that GW were unsure how to proceed about revitalising Wood Elves and to a lesser extent Bretonnians. Apart from them it is really only Dwarves that desperately need a new book and they aren't far off...
You are partially correct that there is no reasoning, from what was said at GD Australia (I think) prjects are chosen by dev team members from a list simply going by what they feel like doing. What is on the list may vry given marketing concerns and what kits they have ready to go and such like though.

[Wildeybeast]

I've actually managed to make Wood Elf list that is pretty competitive (at least in my gaming circle). It consists only of archers to fill out the core allowance, eagles to annoy the enemy and lots of treekin and treemen to stomp stuff, with lore of life to buff everything (hello T10 treeman). Of course, that means two thirds of the stuff in the book is useless (glares at beautiful wardancer models) but it goes to show even broken books like that are still usable, so I can see the logic in doing the popular stuff first. As for revitalising WE, that's easy - massive treemen and new forest spirits, perhaps some half elf/half forest creatures.

[Lord Azaghul]

. They were also really badly broken (in the bad way) by 8th, going form ridiculously overpowered in 7th to barely one playable build in 8th. .

Respectfully:

I can not tell you how wrong you are about this.

They when from being OP in 7th, to BROKEN BULL**** in 8th.

2 things.
Hordes of Ghouls
and Magic w/ blood lines. VC can abuse LVL 1 wizards like no one else can.

VC did NOT need a new book, unless it was to tone DOWN the power level.

There are so many more armies that should have received priority over this book.

[Chronowraith]

Respectfully:

I can not tell you how wrong you are about this.

They when from being OP in 7th, to BROKEN BULL**** in 8th.

2 things.
Hordes of Ghouls
and Magic w/ blood lines. VC can abuse LVL 1 wizards like no one else can.

VC did NOT need a new book, unless it was to tone DOWN the power level.

There are so many more armies that should have received priority over this book.

I concur. &th edition VC were a very strong, bordering on OP list. 8th edition VC became simply obscene. Ghouls in the current book are incredibly undercosted, their magic is just pure BS in the current climate.

I differ in my opinion only slightly in that I'm very glad the book is being rewritten as it needed to be toned down far more than Brets, Wood Elves, and Dwarves needed a boost.

From everything I've read through rumors and people who have seen the pre-proof editions, Vampire Counts will be much more balanced with the new book.

[eldargal]

You will note I said there is one playable build?:p That build consists of ghouls and wizards and that is pretty much it. There are like three units (ghouls, graveguard and I forget the other, corpse carts?) in the whole thing worth taking. For one of GWs formerly best selling lines that is a problem for them.

[Drake118]

Actually i think that the release of VC's makes perfect sense from GW's perspective. VC's are a top sell as was already said, and with Storm of Magic they figured an update to the army would increase sales considering anyone can use them.

[eldargal]

Yup, already planning of having my Empire Nuln Countess call up her Lahmian cousins to come and help on the battlefield with their Coven Throne.;)

[Deadlift]

Actually i think that the release of VC's makes perfect sense from GW's perspective. VC's are a top sell as was already said, and with Storm of Magic they figured an update to the army would increase sales considering anyone can use them.

Exactly, VC got an update purely because of this. If you play storms of magic then you can add VC to any army which means anyone can buy them. Kerching for GW. I personally think this goes some way of taking the flavour away from all armies and their individuality. I think this release is more so than any other "all about the money" and less about improvement of the hobby.

[eldargal]

I disagree, it is quite the opposite. The SoM rules allow far more variety and make all kinds of themed armies possible that were hitherto limited to feeble counts-as attempts or fandexes. Want a Vampire Count ith a living army contingent drawn from his living subjects? You can do that now. Want to model an army around a Tomb King who has terrified local tribes into worshipping him and fighting him? You can do that now.

[Deadlift]

I personally would have liked an order of light and darkness allies list ( goodies and baddies) as seen before where only certain monsters and armies could allie from their own side. Each to their own I suppose :).

[Atreyu]

@Lord Azaghul
0.0 your really thinking that hordes of ghouls and lvl 1 spamming works??? Not for VC. They need a new book IMO. Too many things are cruel in the 7th edition book. Crypt Ghouls are now 10 points. Goodbye to the hordes unless a vampire player feels like spending 40% or more of his army on his vampire lord and a unit of 40 ghouls in 2k...and STILL needing 100 points to meet the requirement of 25% core and still need 2 more units. Skeletons and zombies are much more viable now. They dropped the Drakenhof banner THANK GOD. They have just eliminated all current powerplayer lists known to VC. They were always viable but just expensive in 8th. Now that things are cheaper, everybody wins the game of who gets to be in my army. The army in troops is balanced now. Yes they have new toys but not that hard to kill those toys. Hexwraiths for example. Scary unit. Just for that hello 85 pt chaos sorcerer. Lore of Fire. Fireball. Medium upgrade. 6dice. Irresistible Force. Dont care what happens to me. 2d6. 7 hits. S4 agaisnt T3. 5 wounds. Oh look there dead. VC are now a balanced force. Magic is cruel yes but the casting values are higher (smallest is a 6. You HAVE to waste 2 dice on it every time unless you are confident you wont get a 1 or 2 on one die with a level 3 wizard), making the average roll of 7 in your power pool very precious, almost as precious as TK magic dice. Also look at the ranges of those spells. The signature. 6". Turn one its ok. Turn two sure. Turn 3 maybe...anything turn 3 or past though, your going for the bigger range, meaning bigger casting value, meaning more dice being expended for it to work. Phil may have made it terrifying, but when you apply the actual game rules to it, it is toned down. Personally I am excited to see the book come out (hopefully being lucky as I was with the TK book ill get it the thursday before the release at my house). Just the one thing I hope is that Carpe Noctum and other forum members dont go insane with them all saying "Oh you have to buy this because its good and dont buy that because that sucks" like alot of people do with an army book. Even when its only been out for a bit. It is way soon to ever tell. But...thats just my 2 cents.

[Chronowraith]

@Lord Azaghul
0.0 your really thinking that hordes of ghouls and lvl 1 spamming works??? Not for VC. They need a new book IMO. Too many things are cruel in the 7th edition book. Crypt Ghouls are now 10 points...

I do believe he was referring to the current edition which is about to be invalidated y the new book this Saturday. In that book Ghouls could be spammed and so could cheap casters to keep spamming spells.

VC need a new book but moreso to bring them in balance with the other armies and not because they were a poor performer like some of the previous books (Ogres & Tomb Kings).

[TheCastigator]

VC need a new book but moreso to bring them in balance with the other armies and not because they were a poor performer like some of the previous books (Ogres & Tomb Kings).

Absolutely. One of the main issues with both undead books was the issues stemmed from the 8th edition fear nerf, changes that made steadfast huge, and unstable units (read: undead) crumble. By fixing the crumble rules and reducing the costs for skeletons, you've given undead armies a viable build, and for vampires that means you'll start to see huge blocks of skeletons or zombies. That is great, so you won't have to listen to people whine about the all ghoul core, GG/drakenhoff deathstar, with a black coach or whatever rare choice thrown on top. The new Tomb Kings book further demonstrated the need to do both undead armies at the same time, and was made easier since their rules are substantially similar.