Tyranids vs GK: Om nom nom!

[DWest]

Over the weekend I played my Tyranid horde against a GK Purifier list at 1500 points and pretty thoroughly crushed the Tin Cans. I gather the conventional wisdom is this is unusual, and so I'm trying to figure out if I did something really right, my opponent did something really wrong, or should I just keep on rolling as-is.

The Lists
=====
Tyranids:
HQ: Tyranid Prime (Adrenal Glands, Pair of Boneswords, Scything Talons)
TR: Termagants (10)
TR: Termagants (10)
TR: Tervigon (Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Cluster Spines)
TR: Genestealers (10; Toxin Sacs; Broodlord w/ Scything Talons)
TR: Ripper Swarm* (3; Spinefists)
EL: Hive Guard (3)
EL: Zoanthropes (2)
EL: Venomthropes (2)
FA: Spore Mines* (3)
HS: Carnifex (2x T-L Brainleeches)
HS: Trygon (Prime, Adrenal Glands)

*I was trying these units out to see how they worked.

Grey Knights:
HQ: Castellian Crowe
TR: Purifiers (10; 2 Psycannon, 2 Incinerator, 5 Halberds, 1 Daemonhammer; Rhino w +1 Storm Bolter)
TR: Purifiers (10; 2 Psycannon, 2 Incinerator, 5 Halberds, 1 Daemonhammer; Rhino w +1 Storm Bolter)
FA: Stormraven (T-L Multimelta, T-L Assault Cannon)
HS: Dreadnought (2x T-L AC, Psybolts)
HS: Dreadnought (2x T-L AC, Psybolts)
HS: Dreadnought (2x T-L AC, Psybolts)

I don't have a copy of the GK list on hand, and I think there was one other unit on the field, but I cannot remember what.


The Match
======
The match was played on a 6x4 table set with mostly low area terrain; the objective was Nick-the-Heretic (i.e. Seize Ground with spare Chaos Marines as objective markers, set in a <> pattern on the table) and the deployment was Dawn of War.

I won the rolloff and set up first; I fielded 2 Troops only; the Tervigon and one Gaunt screen. The Tervigon was hugging a bit of high cover ~6" in, and the Gaunts were a bit forward. Stealers outflanking, Trygon deep-striking, Rippers in reserve (hopefully coming out of the Trygon hole). Spore mines were dropped to make the opponent's terrain inconvenient.

The GK player elected to start with nothing on-board. He then seized the Initiative.

GK Turn 1: The Dreads walk in and step on my Spore Mines, Crowe rides in on the Stormraven and the rest of the troops roll up, making a solid clump in the center of the field.

Tyranid Turn 1: The bugs swarm onto the table, the Prime blobbing in with the squishy Venomthropes, who hide behind the Tervigon's bulwark. Hive Guard also hug terrain in the same area, and Zoanthropes hustle up behind a ruined tower. The Carnifex is sent Running forward to make a meat-wall for the Tervigon and given Catalyst. Termagants are rushed as far forward as possible w/o leaving the Venomthrope or Tervigon bubbles.

GK 2: The Dreads move forward. Psybolts ahoy! My dice mistook the Carnifex's shiny plates for an Armoured Shell and refused to roll above a 2. Still with FNP he absorbed enough bullets to keep anybody from taking potshots at at the Tervigon. Rhinos spread out center and right toward objectives. Stormraven drifts into the left 1/3 of the board to watch over the objective there.

Nid 2: My dice remember where they kept their pips and the Trygon burrows up right behind one Psyfleman and the Genestealers come on in line with the Stormraven. Everybody scrambles forward as fast as they can, and the Tervigon puts Catalyst on herself and dumps out a pack of Gaunts to hold the rear objective. The Trygon lights up the back armor of the right-hand Dread and explodes it. However, the Genestealers get only 1" for Run and so are out of reach of the Stormraven.

GK 3: The remaining Psyflemen turn and blast away at the Trygon as do the Psycannon wielders in the right-hand Rhino, which stays put near the Trygon to get maximum shots. The Big Bug loses 4/6 Wounds but stays alive. Meanwhile, the Genestealers face the full wrath of the Stormraven, losing 5 regulars and the Broodlord who had 4 Mindstrike missiles land directly upon him. Genestealers roll an 11 on Ld and run for the hills. The other Rhino lets rip with its' Storm Bolters and the 2 Psycannoneers inside at the Gaunt screen; 4 or5 die after Venomthrope saves.

Nid 3: Still no Rippers. Oh well. Tervigon plops down another pile of Termagants, summoning 14 (2 more than I have models for) and rolling a double in the process. Gaunts move forward and spread out toward right-hand objective. Trygon slithers into position behind the Rhino, while the Genestealers run away only 3". This comes into handy as the Zoanthropes move up and rally the stealers with their Synapse radius. Tervigon takes Catalyst again. Hive Guard blow open the right-hand Rhino, and the Zoanthropes can just reach the Stormraven. Here my low-rolling dice skill comes in handy as I sneak two Warp Lances in under the Reinforced Aegis of a nearby Dread. Down comes the Stormraven in a flaming heap. Genestealers run and then pounce on Crowe, piling enough Wounds on him for him to fail one. Crowe's whirlwind claims a victim in return and we're locked in. The Trygon pounces on the Purifiers who bailed from their Rhino. Flame Knight goes to cast Hammerhands and succeeds, but pops his head off in the process, rolling 1-6-1 for the psychic test. The remaining 4 halberds have no luck piercing the Trygon's hide and in return he cuts down 4, the GK player discarding the flamer and psycannon models to keep his melee models around. Daemonhammer squeezes in a Wound. No Retreat! saves are passed.

GK 4: One Dread and the squad in the objective-holder Rhino let loose on the Tervigon, applying 3 Wounds, a good show but not enough, while the other Dread finally notices the Prime and friends getting close and gives them a dose. One Venomthrope makes its' cover save, one goes splat! and the Prime takes his 2 like a champ, receiving only 1 Wound. The right-hand Purifiers poke the Trygon to death while Crowe and the Genestealers hold a competition for who can roll more 1's. No change there.

Nid 4: Ripper swarms to the rescue! They enter via the Trygon hole and . . . whiff terribly against the Purifiers. I preemptively declare a charge in order to speed them on their way to the Bucket of Shame where they could keep my Chaos Raptors and Striking Scorpions company. Tervigon takes Catalyst again, Hive Guard stun the middle Dread, Zoanthropes perform as expected against the left-hand Dread (i.e. nothing). The Gaunts are run forward to make room for the Prime to run toward the stunned Dread. The Turn 3 Gaunts and the Tervigon let loose on the Purifier squad in revenge for their fallen Trygon, picking off one more. In the Assault phase, Crowe turns his sword over to read the handy instruction placard on the back and then slaughters the Genestealers, consolidating toward the Dreads.

GK 5: With the Prime up front, the stunned Dread fails Fortitude and remains silent. All the remaining fire is directed at the Tervigon, who cops 2 more but is still hanging on with a single Wound.

Nid 5: The noose is tightened around the top objective and the Purifiers in their Rhino. Tervigon takes Catalyst, the right-hand Gaunts consolidate around the right-hand objective, keeping in Synapse with the Tervigon but out of chain-reaction range. Prime turns toward Crowe. The Hive Guard un-tin the last Purifier squad, killing a couple in the process. Gaunts press forward and shred a couple more, and then the Tervigon coughs up a Stinger Salvo, claiming another victim. One of two Warp Lances go off, enough to explode the left-hand Dread. The smallest Gaunt squad assaults the last Dread to tie it up and the Prime rushes Crowe. Crowe does Rapier Strike, gets only 2 swings, wounds with 1, then the Prime gets the kill. Then Crowe passes his shenannigans roll and takes the Prime with him on the way out.

Turn 6 fails its' saving throw and fails to appear. What can I tell the guy to do differently next time, or should I leave at least one Grand Master shaking in his shoes at the thought of fighting the Great Devourer?

[celestialatc]

My advice: I'm not sure if taking three dreads is a good idea at 1500 points. They are great anti tank but against a Tyranids player, one or two at this point level.

I might have miss it but did your opponent remember to use Cleansing Flame at all? It's the purifiers main strength against hordes. It's that extra attack before combat starts! I don't see you mentioning he used that power. And since you did not take Shadow of the Warp, he was free to use his powers all over!

Get rid of the incinerators. They hurt you more then help you. Everytime I have used one, smart opponents just take guy from the front and I lose out on a charge. I know they are free but he probably could have used more halberds.

My big advice is more purifiers. At least 3 squads and then you can add in the dreads. And the Storm raven could have used plasma cannons for an extra plate on your guys, did the assault cannon do anything all game?

[DWest]

I might have miss it but did your opponent remember to use Cleansing Flame at all?
Crowe never popped Cleansing Flame; the player has a tendency to forget Crowe is a Purifier too.
The first Purifier mob only got into 2 CCs; one with a Trygon and one where I threw away the Rippers so I didn't have to come back to that side of the table to get them later. The Rippers did get Cleansed.


And the Storm raven could have used plasma cannons for an extra plate on your guys, did the assault cannon do anything all game?
For some reason, SR Plasma Cannons don't get used hardly ever in the local meta. The Assault Cannons did eat up a few Genestealers before coming down.

[DarkLink]

Three Dreadnoughts may be a bit too much, and psyrifle dreads aren't particularly good against 'nidz so in this case I would stick with two.

Storm Ravens kinda suck, at least for GKs. They're very expensive and very fragile compared to many of the other units. I've only ever seen them taken to carry Death Cult Assassins, which are point for point the choppiest unit in the codex.

Dropping those gets you enough points to buy another unit of Purifiers, easy.



Also, Incinerators are never worth it over psycannons. Always take psycannons on infantry, always. Especially against 'nidz and the like where you'll maybe get one turn to shoot it and then get assaulted.



Lastly, and most importantly, Grey Knights should never be inside a vehicle unless there is a good reason. You have Storm Bolters and Psycannons for a reason. Unless you really need to book it to an objective or protect a squad that's taken heavy casualties, don't bother with actually getting in your vehicles. In fact, I don't take Rhinos anymore even though I use 10-man squads. I use Razorbacks, so that my vehicles can actually contribute to the fight.

[DWest]

Also, Incinerators are never worth it over psycannons. Always take psycannons on infantry, always. Especially against 'nidz and the like where you'll maybe get one turn to shoot it and then get assaulted.
Wait, Purifiers can go 4 Psycannons in 10? I thought my opponent had 2 Psy and 2 Incinerator because that was the max of each type. If so, I will pass that along.

Also, what would you recommend doing with Crowe, if ditching the Stormraven?

[Denied]

Yeah your opponent had a non optimized list for what he was playing. I have never lost to a Nids player with my purifiers, and math-hammer says the same thing.

A single squad of 5 purifiers could multi-charge every Termagant in your list and obliterate them. Easily. Cleansing Flame and I6 Halbreds (2 base swings 3 on the charge force weapons)= dead gants.

I actually have a fairly competent Nids player in my local gaming group who I have played several times and it is a rarity that I don't table him, even with shadow in the warp causing me to test on 3D6 I get off a good amount of psychic powers. Even without them its barely a fair fight for his army since I have assault weapons EVERYWHERE and I have Force Weapons EVERYWHERE and Nids have no way of dealing with these things well.

You might be saying "Oh but I could do the Monstrous Creature Spam and now I have tons of T6 models on the board with 4 wounds each" To which I reply "Rad Grenades + Hammerhand (or FW activation) = Monstrous what now?"

The worst thing that happens to me is when he fields The Doom of Malan'Tai in a Spore and drops in to an area where I have tons of guys out side of their vehicles so they all have to take LD tests on 3D6 and I fail and then doom is all like Ah look I am like St10 with 10Wounds, then I say hey look your still T4 and my psyfilemen look at you and say bye bye. Its a one turn hurt, but some times its a big one.

[DWest]

Does your local player run Venomthropes? Because they make the Gaunts a little scarier in close combat -- any unit of Termagants who connects to the 6" aura (Unless I've missed it, I only need 1 model in range of the aura to extend power to the whole unit, like Sang Priests) gets Defensive Grenades and inflicts Dangerous Terrain on all models who assault. That takes away the assault bonus at least, might get a couple of Purifiers on the way in depending on dice luck ('1' was a very popular number for this game, on both sides).

Looking back, I think a real mistake was bringing the Dreads hard forward each turn. This gave me enough room on turn 2 to Deep Strike the Trygon into a back arc. I supposed he could have piled out the right-hand Purifiers and shot up the Trygon, then charged, but with no Hammerhands, the dice spread has barely 1 Halberd wound going in, and 5/12 chance to activate Force Weapon in Shadows range.

With the non-performance of the spore mines and the rippers, I think it's time to scratch up a Mycetic Spore and bomb in my Zoanthropes (well, Zoanthrope and Confused Terminator -- need to order a second brain bug). Anyone have any experience with the optional weapons on the Spore? any of them good, or should I go stock standard and add more Gaunts to my screens?

[plawolf]

The list building was where he went wrong the most.

I struggle to justify the points for a Stormraven when I have something it could transport. To buy it for one guy is just nuts.

The least he could have done was combat squad one of the purifier squads and zoom a 5 men all halbert squad up the field in the SR to cleansing flame the crap out of as many of your units as he can and keep you tied up in your half of the table a little longer for him to get more shots off.

He could have done that with Crowe, but a 5 men squad has a far bigger footprint when you spread them out, so you have a good chance to get a multicharge off.

But in honesty, a stormraven is rarely a good idea under 2-2.5k. Get more bodies with the points saved.

The guys hiding in rhinos was also a classic generic marine mistake. Get out and blast the bugs with SB and psycannons. If they get charged, thats why you are paying the big bucks for cleansing flame and psycannons for. And yes, always go all psycannon when you can.

The best use of rhinos against bugs is to act as mobile road blocks to screen off some of his units. Alternatively, use them as battering rams and try to tank shock the bugs back from your guys.

[Denied]

Does your local player run Venomthropes? Because they make the Gaunts a little scarier in close combat -- any unit of Termagants who connects to the 6" aura (Unless I've missed it, I only need 1 model in range of the aura to extend power to the whole unit, like Sang Priests) gets Defensive Grenades and inflicts Dangerous Terrain on all models who assault. That takes away the assault bonus at least, might get a couple of Purifiers on the way in depending on dice luck ('1' was a very popular number for this game, on both sides).


His most recent list have, but honestly say a single 6 man Purifiers squad (It's how I run them with only 3x Halbreds) runs into a squad of lets say 20 gants, I start off with Cleansing Flame (as long as I am not near a shadow in the warp it is getting off even with Shadow it drops me to a roughly 50% chanse of getting it off. This will inflict 10 wounds on average you save like 1 maybe 2. Then I swing with my hlabreds hitting on 3 wounding on 3 so even if I only get 6 swings (not charging) I drop an additional 3 gants at I6. Then my I4 swings go off your left with like 4-5 gants . The still only hit on 4's and wound on 4's so only 1/4 of your swings land home and I get armor save's from them so go go 3+ armor. Now I finish off your last couple of guys with my Daemon hammer and consolidate. Oh I had to take dangerous test hmm I run only 6 guys so you kill one, look I still win.

This is not a game you win. The simple answer is your opponent put together a bad list and played it wrong. Which just goes to show how even with a "broken" codex like Grey Knights inexperienced players are still bad.

[celestialatc]

Also, what would you recommend doing with Crowe, if ditching the Stormraven?

Crowe should be hiding out behind a rhino or razorback you bought for another squad on turn one. Then jump in and stay in the razorback on your turn.

I usually use him to protect dreadnoughts in the back field....which you said your opponent kept moving up. Unless he made them scoring (which he did not because you need a Grand Master for that) then there is almost no reason to move auto cannon dreads up the board. It's a 48" reach, it will hit something!

I learned with crowe that he is a little bit better then what I thought, if a large out flanking party comes up in the back I can use cleansing flame and then just defensive stance with him. He hopefully gets one attack and then can reroll his armor saves...it's pretty sweet. He becomes a tar pit for a turn or two.

[DWest]

Unless he made them scoring . . . then there is almost no reason to move auto cannon dreads up the board.
I think he was worried about Zoanthrope shots, which I did manage to shove under the Reinforced Aegis anyway. I'll suggest that Dreads need to stay in the back.

And supposing a Purifier squad does maul my Gaunt screen, then my Tervigon coughs up a fresh dozen Gaunts, then Prime and Venoms charge your squad. Prime has Shadows, if you passed last time you're due for a miss, Venoms have Lashwhips knocking you down to I1, the Prime gets 5 ID power weapon swings at I6, S6, and WS6, 4 of your 5 remaining go splat and then the Venoms gnaw the last one to pieces. I consolidate back into my Gaunt screen, next turn.

Or at least, that's going by percentages. Even when a dice rolls statistically average, it rarely doles out a precisely average set of numbers each turn. That's why we play the game (well, that and nicely painted bugs look better on top of nicely painted terrain than in a carrying case).

[Denied]

Crowe should be hiding out behind a rhino or razorback you bought for another squad on turn one. Then jump in and stay in the razorback on your turn.


not always, if Crowe is not an objective (ie its not a Kill Point mission or special points for killing an HQ) he may as well join the fray. I mean WS 8 is awesome and he has some weird abilities plus he has a 2+/4+ invo from iron Halo/ Artificer armor and 2 wounds giving some survivability. What I tend to do if he isn't a victory condition is run him up and engage those monstrous creature Crowe can kill one on his own, even if he does die to it he can cast his heroic sacrifice and take the blasted thing to the abyss with him.



I usually use him to protect dreadnoughts in the back field....which you said your opponent kept moving up. Unless he made them scoring (which he did not because you need a Grand Master for that) then there is almost no reason to move auto cannon dreads up the board. It's a 48" reach, it will hit something!

This is something else you can do with Crowe, but I only resort to it if he is again a victory condition. Also I routinely move my dreads because guess what Reinforced Aegis is as far as Psychic defense goes. I can shut down all those annoying Eldar dooms and Space Wolf JotWW, LL, MH Rune Priests. In this situation though you raise a valid point because it doesn't look like you had any Pyschic attack abilities you could have used (unless I fail at my Nid knowledge).




I learned with crowe that he is a little bit better then what I thought, if a large out flanking party comes up in the backnd then ju I can use cleansing flame ast defensive stance with him. He hopefully gets one attack and then can reroll his armor saves...it's pretty sweet. He becomes a tar pit for a turn or two.

^This is one of the many reasons Crowe is actually pretty amazing too. He can take on an entire squad of gants or Genestealers him self and at the very least he will keep the unit tied up in CC until a better unit can get there to clean them up.



The way I run purifiers is I tend to have 2-3 Psyfileman dreads and then a bunch of 6 man Purifiers squads in Razorbacks with psybolt ammo (this can lay some hurt on your monstrous creatures). Then if I have the points I throw in a Psychic Inquisitor with Rad and some times psykotroke grenades with a bigger squad in a rhino mostly for assaulting big units.

The last time I played my local Nids player I ran my Inquisitor unit into 3 separate Carnifex's without loosing a singly model in CC and killed each one very easily. Rad grenades are a vicious beast and unless you kill that unit with shooting its going to eat through your army.

[DWest]

Zoanthropes, I run a brood of 2, are basically a walking psychic gun. Has both an 18" range, S10 AP1 Lance spell and an 18" range, S5 AP3 B3" Blast spell. Ld 10, Dread Aegis probably should have stopped more, but that's the upside to dice with a fear of 4+ rolls.

[Denied]

Zoanthropes, I run a brood of 2, are basically a walking psychic gun. Has both an 18" range, S10 AP1 Lance spell and an 18" range, S5 AP3 B3" Blast spell. Ld 10, Dread Aegis probably should have stopped more, but that's the upside to dice with a fear of 4+ rolls.

lawl yeah. I love it though when I play against a Psyker heavy army and people look at me like why are you dreads marching and I am like 12" bubble of F U!!!!!!

[celestialatc]

Haha, I did not know that is how Zoanthropes work....makes perfect sense to move the dreads up and protect your boys with the -4 LD shield! Aegis FTW!

[Entropic]

Does your local player run Venomthropes? Because they make the Gaunts a little scarier in close combat -- any unit of Termagants who connects to the 6" aura (Unless I've missed it, I only need 1 model in range of the aura to extend power to the whole unit, like Sang Priests) gets Defensive Grenades and inflicts Dangerous Terrain on all models who assault. That takes away the assault bonus at least, might get a couple of Purifiers on the way in depending on dice luck ('1' was a very popular number for this game, on both sides).

I used venomthropes to great effect in my local games ... right up until people realized that they were actually a threat. Now they're just primary targets, and even though they're 2 wounds each, they're still T4. It's been a long time since I've had a venomthrope last more than 1 turn. They're good, but only if your opponent doesn't appreciate how useful they are and realize that it's not much harder to put wounds on them then on the guys they're protecting, and that once they're gone it's easier to kill everything else. Better off using the precious elite slot for something else, IMO.

[Anggul]

lawl yeah. I love it though when I play against a Psyker heavy army and people look at me like why are you dreads marching and I am like 12" bubble of F U!!!!!!

I was under the impression that it only worked on units which already had the basic aegis, so wouldn't work on most vehicles.

[DWest]

I was under the impression that it only worked on units which already had the basic aegis, so wouldn't work on most vehicles.
SM vehicles in a GK army have Aegis themselves. Only thing which doesn't is the Chimera.


I used venomthropes to great effect in my local games ... right up until people realized that they were actually a threat. Now they're just primary targets,
If the Venomthropes are eating all the bullets, that means my Tervigon, Hive Guard, and Zoanthropes aren't. And that's good enough for me. Or I can put the Carnifex and Tervigon side-by-side and physically cut off LOS to the venoms if I need them to stay alive.

[Blkswrdsman]

How did you like ripper swarms?

[Neelam]

Are stormravens really as bad as people are making out? I've had some luck with them but it's all in the deployment / 1st & 2nd turns.

If you go first then have it on the table and pray he doesn't steal the initiative , if you go second just keep it in reserve. Generally move it 24" and use the multi-melta to take out tanks that are a threat (in my last game it was a tripple las cannon predator). Then when it's safe use the 12" move to fire all weapons and disembard your assault squad near the target of choice.

I ran it with TL Plascannos / Multimelta / Teleporter Homer in a 1500 list . The non scattering deep strike from a dreadknight and regular termies pretty much won me the game . Focus fired all anti vehicle + tank units with the 2 psyriflemen and whatever gun needed firing via POTMS .

I can see it being especially useful against nids if you loaded it with a GM with grenades + terminator unit , gave the stormraven Assault cannons + Heavy bolters + Hurricane bolters and gave it psybolt ammo , could be very nasty. The psi-strike missiles also have their uses for hurting zoanthropes .

[thecactusman17]

12" move doesn't fire all weapons, just a primary weapon + defensive (which your hurricane bolters are NOT unless they DON'T have psybolt ammo).

Stormravens are great transports, and I'm saying this as a Dark eldar player. They can move fast, have strong armor, and decent weapons (though better by far on the Blood Angels version with it's S8 AP1 missiles). The trick is that you need to give them something nice to transport, and there is only one really good option for that in the GK book: Death Cult assassins. If you want terminators, a Land raider is a better choice with its higher transport capacity. And with the best GK Dreadnought builds being long range shooting oriented, there's no good reason to position one upfield instead of having it hang back

[Neelam]

12" move doesn't fire all weapons, just a primary weapon + defensive (which your hurricane bolters are NOT unless they DON'T have psybolt ammo).

Stormravens are great transports, and I'm saying this as a Dark eldar player. They can move fast, have strong armor, and decent weapons (though better by far on the Blood Angels version with it's S8 AP1 missiles). The trick is that you need to give them something nice to transport, and there is only one really good option for that in the GK book: Death Cult assassins. If you want terminators, a Land raider is a better choice with its higher transport capacity. And with the best GK Dreadnought builds being long range shooting oriented, there's no good reason to position one upfield instead of having it hang back

Well it's actually 1 Primary + defensive + Power of the Machine Spirit , by all weapons I meant all weapons worth firing (In the case where I was running it with Plasma Cannons / Multi-melta and no hurricane bolters) although I'd assume the psi-strike missiles count as defensive weapons anyway.

I've got mixed views between the BA / GK versions, sure you get better missiles but you lack the Fortitude power and psi-strike missiles have their uses vs certain armies.

I disagree with Death Cult Assassin being "the one really good option" , Either purifies with halberds + an inquisitor with rad / psycho grenades or a terminator unit + grand master with the same grenades . I agree with the dreadnoughts however , I wouldn't use it to transport them.

The storm raven has better transport capacity imo (crusader has 16, redeemer 12 and vanilla 10, stormraven 12) due to the 24" movement (I'm aware you can't effectively disembark while moving flat out but it's for positioning).

Also the land raider is 40+ points more and can't take the teleporter homer which seems pretty darn useful, having a mobile precise drop point for deep striking units is golden IMO. That's if it doesn't get shot down.

The H.bolters + Assault Cannons + hurricane bolters + psybolt ammo was just for giggles / to use against nids or orks , horde armies that don't have reliable long ranged weapons to deal with vehicles.