2000pts Knight Wing

[Angelofblades]

Not Draigo-wing in this instance, also meaning, it's not necessarily optimized, my for fun list, that can still pack a punch.

GKGM - 195
MC - sword
Psychostroke grenades

Libby - 165
3 powers
Shrouding, Might of Titan, Sanctuary

10 GKTs - 470
2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, 2 Swords, 6 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo

10 GKTs - 450
2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, 2 Swords, 6 Halberds

10 GKTs - 450
2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, 2 Swords, 6 Halberds

Psyfleman dread - 135

Psyfleman dread - 135

GKGM joins psybolt ammo squad, libby joins adjacent squad, 3rd squad options to either stay on board or combat squad DS

32 Terminators
2 Vehicles
7KP's

Thoughts?

[Denied]

I would honestly say throw the Libby in with the GKGM squad for more wound allocation as well as a bigger beat stick squad. This will be the squad absorbing most of the fire and in a lot of situations and the GKGM and Libby can keep jumping from squad to squad as they thin out.

The biggest problem you run into with a foot slogging terminator list like this when it is not played as Draigo Wing is the loss of the extra wounds and the Storm Shield on Draigo really will start to hurt after a while.

The reason Draigo does so well is they can sit there playing the wound allocation game and in the end you may have laid a fair bit of hurt on them, but they are still full up on the model count when they pound into your front line.

With list like this you rely more on deep striking to get in close, where you will do better, which leaves you out in the open for a round with no ability to engage units so they tend to get the charge on you and if you are playing against another GK player this means thanks to Psych-out Grenades you will all be swinging last and it WILL hurt.

That being the case I think you want to throw in a Warding staff into each squad so you have at least one model you can throw instant death wounds onto in CC that will have a 2+ invo.

that's just my two cents

[DarkLink]

Driago's great because of his Eternal Warrior, not his Storm Shield. For 80pts, a 3+ vs a 4+ invulnerable isn't too huge of a deal. It's mostly the extra wound and the fact that you can save Paladins from ID that makes Driago so important. Without Paladins, you don't have nearly as much to worry about.

But take Rad Grenades. If you are taking one of the models that can take Rad/Psykotroke Grenades, there is never any conceivable reason to even consider not taking both. They're super cheap for what you get, and for a mere ~30pts (I'd take Blind Grenades, too) you can buff a large unit of Terminators to be virtually unbeatable in CC.

I would also get two more powers for the Librarian. You have the option and it makes you flexible, so go for it. Get the Quickening and probably Warp Quake. They're cheap, make you very flexible for very few points, and since your librarian can use 4 powers total over a game turn you might as well take advantage of that if you need to.

On the Terminators, always take the Brotherhood Banner. You might not need it on the third squad since they're mainly backup, but on anything that will see combat it is awesome. Especially the auto-pass force weapons, against armies like 'nidz. Psybolt ammo is also awesome, since you've got a ton of storm bolters that will be walking around shooting a lot.




Now, I realize that you don't quite have the points to fit all this stuff in the list. Personally, I've found that taking both a GM and a Librarian to be overkill. I would take either the GM for the Grenades and Grand Strategy, or the Librarian for psychic powers and Psychic Hood. I prefer the GM, since GKs have built-in psychic defenses and psychic powers can be blocked. And the GM himself is much tougher than the Librarian. And I've found that, while useful, I don't think that Shrouding and Sanctuary are worth ~170pts compared to the GM's options.

You could also drop the GM in favor of a Xenos Inquisitor with Grenades, but like I said I've personally settled on a GM as my main HQ.

Either way, you should save enough points to get those extra upgrades, and probably enough to get a third Psyrifle Dread. Psyrifle Dreads will be invaluable to you, due to your relative lack of psycannons. The more Rhinos you can pop quickly the bigger advantage your foot list will have.




Edit:
I also have come to prefer a Stave over Swords. Swords aren't that much of an improvement at the cost of I6 attacks, while the Stave can effectively nullify that Power Fist. And with large units of Terminators, it's things like random Power Fists that will whittle you down and get you killed. Or quad Plasma Command Squads, but you'll just have to shoot them before they shoot you:rolleyes:.

[plawolf]

I would personally drop the GM and get a Xenos =I= in there instead.

That way, you retain the 2 HQs and all the important buffs. While the GM is a great fighter, he is not essential when you are running full termie squads with grenades. Give the =I= PA, any maybe hammerhand and you still save 102pts. Get a search light for each dread with the change.

Bro-Banners are a solid choice as Daklink has pointed out, so 50-75pts for the banners depending on if you want to get one for every squad.

Then another 20-40pts for psybolt ammo, and you still have some points left over to either get more powers for the libby.

However, do you have to go all termie?

If you drop the 3rd termie squad, that could open up all sorts of options to make your list more balanced.

A squad of interceptors would help with your lack of mobility, another psyrifle wouldn't hurt at 2k either. After that, you should have plenty of points left to get a strike squad as a cheap objective holder, or even henchmen if you don't mind not going full GK.

[SaganGree]

If you drop the 3rd termie squad, that could open up all sorts of options to make your list more balanced.


I think the entire point was to limit your opponents options...

Think of it this way, SW ML spam sees a couple blocks of Terminators... and a squad of interceptors... I wonder what their target will be.

The point, as it has been explained to me, is that a 2+ save is universally bad for anyone not running a ton of AP2 weapons, the most common being the LasCannon.



A squad of interceptors would help with your lack of mobility,


As for mobility... I see this more like an Orc horde wall... in that you can shoot it, but its not going to matter much.

I also disagree that the banner is necessary... even with only half the squad alive, there are more than enough attacks, that will hit, to kill enough to force a solid leadership test or stay alive to kill the target in the next round of combat. Bear in mind hammerhand is a MASSIVE influence on this opinion.

Basically, this list is the epitome of KISS. Not a lot of tricks, just solid units that can do everything well, with the added bonus of the GKGM giving you options before the game starts depending on the situation.

Can it be beat? You bet... but I'll wage this list is Rock to more Scissors than not.

[Angelofblades]

But take Rad Grenades. If you are taking one of the models that can take Rad/Psykotroke Grenades, there is never any conceivable reason to even consider not taking both. They're super cheap for what you get, and for a mere ~30pts (I'd take Blind Grenades, too) you can buff a large unit of Terminators to be virtually unbeatable in CC.

I'd love to, but where do I find the points ?

I would also get two more powers for the Librarian. You have the option and it makes you flexible, so go for it. Get the Quickening and probably Warp Quake. They're cheap, make you very flexible for very few points, and since your librarian can use 4 powers total over a game turn you might as well take advantage of that if you need to.

Do you mean Quicksilver and Warp Rift? Quickening is Mephiston's old power, and Warp Quake is only available to strike/interceptor squads. I was debating Warp Rift, but the problem is, I'm on foot...I would rarely get a chance to use it, and points...

On the Terminators, always take the Brotherhood Banner. You might not need it on the third squad since they're mainly backup, but on anything that will see combat it is awesome. Especially the auto-pass force weapons, against armies like 'nidz. Psybolt ammo is also awesome, since you've got a ton of storm bolters that will be walking around shooting a lot.

Same issue as before, points...a bro banner costs me a psycannon...and I need the psycannons more than I need the bro banners. However, Denied did make an interesting comment, group up all the IC's into the one super unit, this should allow me to double hammer hand, which still keeps the squad free to perform the Force Weapon... However I doubt there would be much and MC left over, if it chose to charge 10 GKT's with 2 IC's with psychostroke grenades...


Now, I realize that you don't quite have the points to fit all this stuff in the list. Personally, I've found that taking both a GM and a Librarian to be overkill. I would take either the GM for the Grenades and Grand Strategy, or the Librarian for psychic powers and Psychic Hood. I prefer the GM, since GKs have built-in psychic defenses and psychic powers can be blocked. And the GM himself is much tougher than the Librarian. And I've found that, while useful, I don't think that Shrouding and Sanctuary are worth ~170pts compared to the GM's options.

Dropping the Libby, lowers my tank popping abilty and lowers survivability. 4+ cover saves are already a pain for most armies to have to deal against, a 3+ on walking termies, tends to infuriate many...

You could also drop the GM in favor of a Xenos Inquisitor with Grenades, but like I said I've personally settled on a GM as my main HQ.

Either way, you should save enough points to get those extra upgrades, and probably enough to get a third Psyrifle Dread. Psyrifle Dreads will be invaluable to you, due to your relative lack of psycannons. The more Rhinos you can pop quickly the bigger advantage your foot list will have.


With the GKGM, I've been using him for counter assault. I already understand that I'm most likely not going to be doing most of the charging, I've accepted that, but I'm assuming that charging I6 S5 termies in terrain who have counter attack, and are armed with force weapons, is a daunting task for any close combat specialist unit, throw in Psychostroke grenades and it's a recipie for madness. I'm not aware of many other units that stand much of a chance at winning combat in a single round, charging 10 GKT's with a GKGM in there, in terrain. Double hammerhand, psychostroke grenades and Sanctuary, I mean Necron Wraith worry little about the terrain, but S6 FW with the chance of the wraiths hitting themselves... unless it's another GK army with a Draigo paladin deathstar, then well...I cost less than them? :P

I mean, I can't think of another non GK unit in the game that would be as powerful as this in CC, while retaining some level of protection. Other GK units obviously, but I can't think of any other non GK unit in the game that is as powerful in cc.

Edit:
I also have come to prefer a Stave over Swords. Swords aren't that much of an improvement at the cost of I6 attacks, while the Stave can effectively nullify that Power Fist. And with large units of Terminators, it's things like random Power Fists that will whittle you down and get you killed. Or quad Plasma Command Squads, but you'll just have to shoot them before they shoot you:rolleyes:.

See I agree with this also, but then I get to thinking, I get charged, by a typical unit holding a hidden fist...10 assault marines with a power fist? What's the mathammer on that vs 10 GKT's, 6 halberds, 2 swords and 2 hammers with counter attack?

Hammerhand goes off
6 die at I6
2 die at I4
I probably loose 1 in return if that.
3 PF attacks at the same time as my 6 hammers...1.5 hits, 1 wound, I have a 50% chance to save with a sword,

I'd love to have staves in the unit, mind you, this way I could put in more halberds, just points...I have exactly 20 points to spare if I took out the psybolt ammo, which nets me a single stave, I thought that maybe the psybolt ammo, would be the better bet.

Also, you mentioned quad plasma command squads, dangerous indeed, but I would be in a whole lot more danger, if I didn't have the shrouding librarian, which you suggested be dropped. I'm not saying, just sayin...


However, do you have to go all termie?


Just waiting for the last set of 9 to come in the mail, love ebay. I already have 20 built, the 2 IC's and 2 dreads. I have an uponed box of 5 termies at home, but once I get the set of 9, I'll build the 5 to cover any gaps and make options IE Bro banners, staves etc.

[DarkLink]

Oops, Warp Rift not Warp Quake.

Anyways, as I said, drop the Librarian for a couple pieces of wargear and a third Psyrifle Dread. The Dread will improve your anti-tank more than the Librarian ever could, and in my experience Shrouding isn't really all that useful. In particular, most of the stuff that really kills Terminators, like command squads with lots of Plasma/Melta, will have to get so close to shoot that you probably won't get a cover save to boost to a 3+ anyways. Not worth ~170pts for a handful of mildly useful abilities compared to some of the other stuff you could be spending points on.

There's also the option to drop the GM to a Xenos Inquisitor, as has been mentioned. With thirty Terminators, you aren't lacking in counter assault, and a Xenos Inquisitor with Hammerhand and Grenades isn't exactly a pushover. The Grenades are the important part anyways.

[Angelofblades]

Ok so here's an alternative taking the changes into consideration. Taking the Xenos Inq for grenade caddy, however, wasn't enough to get me another dread.

Xenos Inq - 85
Rad and psychostroke grenades
Psy level 1 - HH

GK Libby - 165
3 powers

10 Terms - 495
2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, Bro banner, Warding stave, Master crafter weapon (justicar)

10 Terms - 480
2 psycannons, warding stave, Master crafter weapon (justicar)

10 Terms - 480
2 psycannons, warding stave, Master crafter weapon (justicar)

2x psyflemen dreads - 270