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Skragger
09-13-2009, 08:28 AM
Sometimes I look at the rules of 40K and I think how the D6 is really restricting to the game as a whole, and if somehow someone were to come up with a way to effectivly switch the game over to a D% (or D100 for yolu non-D&Ders).

Stats could be a lot more accurate and varying between the races, there would me more variance between the weaponry of different races (ex: except for the number of shots, a loota-gun is the exact same as an autocannon).

I think it could add a whole new level of design and strategy to the game...

thoughts?

Abominable Plague Marine
09-13-2009, 08:52 AM
Are you serious? Having to roll two D10 or a large D100 everytime something happens would kill the game. You would have to alter the mechanics of the game to a whole new degree, no doubt there are games like this out there. If you feel restricted and want more "accurate stats", I suggest you seek these games out. Let the GW game designers do what they do best (or at least what they are paid to do).

If all else fails, make up your own rules.

Old_Paladin
09-13-2009, 09:42 AM
I understand what you're saying, but Abominable has a point.
Fighting with large armies requires very simple rules.

The Inquisitor rules use a percentage system; but each 'army' is a retinue or band of 3-6 guys, so only about 8-10 models are fighting at a time.

Necromunda uses an updated 2nd ed. system that (while using d6) has a lot of rules for modifiers, that add 'realism'. Even with that, gangs tend to never grow over 20 members.


You need a balance, between diversity and playability. The more complexe the rules the smaller the combating forces will have to be; in order to speed play time.

Drunkencorgimaster
09-13-2009, 09:58 AM
Are you serious? Having to roll two D10 or a large D100 everytime something happens would kill the game. You would have to alter the mechanics of the game to a whole new degree, no doubt there are games like this out there. If you feel restricted and want more "accurate stats", I suggest you seek these games out. Let the GW game designers do what they do best (or at least what they are paid to do).


Are YOU serious? Why is his/her suggestion such a shocker? What is the difference between rolling a d6 versus a d10? How would that "kill the game?" We might be able to learn something from other systems. It is possible. Besides, after Gav Thorpe's recent post (discussed on other threads) I am less convinced than ever that GW clearly knows what it is doing.

Dragonmann
09-13-2009, 10:10 AM
Gak, d% is so unnecessary.

you don't even need to switch to d10 unless you start cutting out rolls.


Right now with hit, wound, and save there are 216 possible out comes (statistacally), and you are using dice that people have in heaps, and are easy to get that way.

Old_Paladin
09-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Are YOU serious? Why is his/her suggestion such a shocker? What is the difference between rolling a d6 versus a d10? How would that "kill the game?" We might be able to learn something from other systems. It is possible. Besides, after Gav Thorpe's recent post (discussed on other threads) I am less convinced than ever that GW clearly knows what it is doing.

It would be a game killer because we're not talking about one d10 per model, but two (for the percentage roll). That means no mass rolling, as you would get the 'ones' columns and 'tens' columns all mixed up.
Also, d10's aren't that common, so it would get costly to buy a bunch. d6's are everywhere, you can buy a 10-pack at a dollar store.

Could the system be expanded to be a d10 system, sure. But maybe you should read what Abominable said before you jump all over him; he said the system would never work as a d100 system (which can also be done with 2d10).

Dragonmann
09-13-2009, 10:21 AM
Are YOU serious? Why is his/her suggestion such a shocker? What is the difference between rolling a d6 versus a d10? How would that "kill the game?" We might be able to learn something from other systems. It is possible. Besides, after Gav Thorpe's recent post (discussed on other threads) I am less convinced than ever that GW clearly knows what it is doing.

a d10 isn't his suggestion. a d100 is. You can either buy a box of 5$ golf ball d100s that never stop rolling if the table isn't perfectly level, or roll 2d10, for every model, and keep them straight.

If I have a mob of 30 orks now, I may have to roll a bucket of dice, but not in matched pairs. roll 2 dice 30 times for d%, or roll 120 d6s by the bucket...

for an example that is already in the game, chain fists, monstrous creatures, or melta guns, all of which roll 2 dice for armor pen in certain conditions. When that crops up, you can't roll a fistfull of dice anymore, you have to roll them a pair at a time. In some circumstances that may be 5 or 6 separate rolls instead of one big one. And every time it comes up, the pace of the game falters.

Skragger
09-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Alright then, lets edit the discussion, lets move away from D100's towards the other Ds? D10s? D12?

krispy
09-13-2009, 10:34 AM
Alright then, lets edit the discussion, lets move away from D100's towards the other Ds? D10s? D12?

simple solution there: Rogue Trader warhammer 40000, (1st Edition 40k)

i remember having d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20+ d100 dice in a box, i remember games with 5 characters on a table taking 4+ hours yeah it was 'realistic' but it took forever....

i honestly prefer the most recent versions.

/k

Gotthammer
09-13-2009, 10:37 AM
Inquisitor uses a D% system, and the rolls are much more time consuming as they must be done individually (or with multi-coloured dice). I wouldn't want to be playing that with more than 10 or so active characters on the map at a time.

Culven
09-13-2009, 10:41 AM
I think that changing from the current D6 system to a D10 system could improve the game by offering more variety in stats and possible outcomes. However, it may be a bit cost-prohibative to some players. However, when we consider how much we pay for our plastic toy soldiers, I don't think the cost of dice is as much of an issue.

Skragger
09-13-2009, 10:56 AM
I'd be just as fine rolling 120 D10s as I am rolling 120 D6s for my attacks. The only difference is the numbers that appear on the dice. As Culven said, the only major difference is price, and we're already selling out first born children's arms and legs for this hobby.

sorri
09-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Are YOU serious? Why is his/her suggestion such a shocker? What is the difference between rolling a d6 versus a d10? How would that "kill the game?" We might be able to learn something from other systems. It is possible. Besides, after Gav Thorpe's recent post (discussed on other threads) I am less convinced than ever that GW clearly knows what it is doing.

But it's not a D10 instead of a D6. It's 2 D10 per shot, which means that instead of picking up 21D6 and rolling them, you'd have to roll 2 D10 21 times. And that's just for one set of dice rolls. It would put a serious time increase into each phase of the game.

Aldramelech
09-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Ive always seen 40k as GW's entry level game for newcomers and younger gamers and as such this is why it needs to be kept simple. Kids have short attention spans and making the game too complicated could deter them and new players in general. 40k appears to be getting bigger and bigger with every year with huge games being played everywhere, making the rules more complicated would kill this too.

I play 'Historical' games as well as GW, and GW is my 'Light relief', I don't want it complicated.

Valdore
09-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Well, contrary to what some people think, I quite like the idea, D100 may not be particularly practical, but D10 or even D20 could probably be achieved. It's highly unlikely to come from GW though, the game is too well established in a D6 system for them to change it. But I suspect converting it for friendly games would be relatively easy if you put some time into it, and if you do it with a couple of people to make sure you don't get carried away with some of the stats for your favourite armies etc.

My only caution would be that if you play in official games (eg in a GW store or tournaments etc.) then you might think twice about the idea, it could well throw you off balance when you have to play official rules if you've gotten used to your own system ;)

Drunkencorgimaster
09-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Waaah! Everyone is being mean to me!!!!! Waaaaaah! Gav Thorpe and I can have a pity party together;).

Rapture
09-13-2009, 10:49 PM
D% is out of the question.

D10 is where its at. I would like to see some more room for variation in the different armies' stat lines.