Tau: The most 'Brokenest' Little Codex

[Panxer]

My codex is broken. Ok, before you get incensed, please note that I've studied up on both schools of thought regarding the Tau Empire: from the 'codex is broken', to 'it's the player who is broken'. I have to conclude, that yes, skill does play a part, but with the codex as it stands- is like digging a 6'x8'x4' grave with a KFC spork, and expecting to have it done by sun down. Never have I had to work so hard to accomplish so little, and I'll explain why...

In my summation, I have to say conclusively, that given my experience, that the player in this case is definitely not broken party; I'm by no means perfect, but I've played over 40 games this summer and coming into 60 games this winter, have been in 3 tourneys, studied and used every online stratagem, weighed and used every XV loadout, tried trickling in reserves ala Pos Relay, tried having everything out on the table to start with, tried the patient hunter and the killing blow; tried mechanized, tried footsloggers, from sniper drones to fire warrior spam and fish of fury. Honestly, if every tactic has been used to its maximum effect and tactical advantage utilizing A.C.O.C.A. (barring the dice gods kicking me in the gootch *which is seeming e-v-e-r-y time), I have to conclude that the codex is so far out of date and literally 'broken' as it stands now that I will refuse to fight most opponents in larger points games because all the other codices are now so monstrously overpowered by comparison.

"But It's not the size of your force, it's how you use it!", "You've got the S10 AP1 death stick! You've got broadsides and Hammerheads, and you have XV suits and wargear!" Forgive my sarchasm, but SO...Effhing...What... Everyone from Grey Knights to Necrons to IG have IC's and weapons platforms that are so devastating that all the benefits you get from wargear or your broadside's 2+ armor save 'can't repel fire of that magnitude' :D. The Necrons alone have no fewer that 5 new weapons that instadeath broadsides or strip away any benefit you may receive from a gun drone or a shield drone; XV's are also affected and destroyed by this. Hammerheads and Sky rays are also eaten alive now with Necron scarabs or Power Weapons (yes, flechettes, but they're typically unreliable against swarms or terminators with powerfists or chainfists).

"But you have XV's that can fire 36" S7AP4 weapons that can neutralize transports and pathfinders to make your units more accurate with markerlights!" Nope, just about every army now has template weapons that are AP3 barrage or ignore cover, so that pathfinder team you infiltrated and put in that cover over there? Yeah it's gone, turn 1, leaving everyone out there to deal with their piddly BS3 and pray to the dice gods that a unit of 12 FW's or Railhead submunition can take out that unit that's moving to stomp you, all the while praying that you can deal out the punishment at range; even the mathhammer people will tell you that you're chances are about 3 shades of average and will under-perform every time with every army now having FNP or Reanimation Protocols or some such rule.

"B-b-but Panxer! There's a new codex coming out soon! All will be well! Aren't you excited about it?"

Not really; and I'll tell you why- First, yes, It's desperately needed, it might be awesome, and we might be getting some new units, points reductions and wargear/abilities, etc..., but in effect, 'might be' as it stands for now is the operative term in play here. Until it's in my greasy little cheetoes stained and mr pib drenched nerd hands it's all 'hype-othetical'. What might be, and what are, are two grossly separate things. It might be wonderful! It might be grand! It may make me want to pick up my fishy friends again and proclaim anew and proudly that, YES, I indeed am a Tau player! But for now, it's a mixed bag of mediocre and sweating to make it past turn 3 without being rendered combat ineffective or worse.

And I laud and praise you savant players out there. You scions of Mars. You naturally gifted tactical marvels who have taken what you were dealt and made it work to much success. I salute you. I, unfortunately, am not you, and I have to deal with the less than stately tactical sub-brilliance that I've been dealt. I've fielded marines, and I've fieled guard, and I can honestly tell you, tactical acumen nor strategic wizardry can save you every time from the weight of an underpowered and outmatched codex.

You might do very well against IG or SM, Nids or Greenskins; You may be a skilled tournament veteran player or a middle of the road weekend hobbyist (or somewhere in between, like me), but sitting in the hobby shop comparing codices and playing against new Necrons and Jill and Sally Space Marine, honestly makes me pine for a new book. It's so badly needed and so over due. I can wait a few more months (I've waited since 5th ed premiered). If you're going to play your Tau (and please by all means do!) Just be eager and prepared for what's coming...hopefully sooner, rather than later.

[Drakkan Vael]

So in essence you are telling us that the actual codex is crap and you want a new one?

The number of games means nothing if you don't learn from your mistakes. Same goes for army composition.


The Necrons alone have no fewer that 5 new weapons that instadeath broadsides or strip away any benefit you may receive from a gun drone or a shield drone

Yes, that might be so, but usually who cares if a drone dies due to instadeath weapons?

I've been playing this game a long time, all the way from 2nd edition. Yes, there are always armys at the pointy end of the sword. Until November it hast been the Necrons, while the Tau are still playable, they are not the top dogs. That will change again some time soon. Whining does not help, nor does it increase the speed with which the changes will eventually come.

Play another army. Sounds stupid? I started with Eldar, an own Tau, Nids and Necrons (from my point of view, top tournament armies are somewhere else - maybe aside from the boring and stupid Scarab farm - and I don't care about them much. Play to have fun, not to wield the biggest stick in the woods.)

And please try to write something remotely useful.

[egorene]

The Codex is not broken.
Yes its not easy to beat some of the new armies , but it is possible.
And if the dice rolls are bad , then they are . So what ?
Yeah its bad , if you cant stop a land raider full of termis but sometimes it happens .
Take it or take an other army .

[DrLove42]

I have to agree with two above posts....yes the army has it hard, but is this just a post to whinge about it?

I admit I haven't touched my Tau in over a year. But the winds are changing. Soon....

[Archon]

Yeah its bad , if you cant stop a land raider full of termis but sometimes it happens .

That not right - you can! The above mentioned Railguns can make short work with this. The Problem is - you have not enough firepower to bring a modern army like SW, BA, GK down to its knees in the short time.

I don´t agree, that the pathfinder are dead in T1 if you are not to begin. But most of the newer armies have enough firepower to make you look sad, if you think about the fact that the Tau live from superior firepower ... but they don´t have it any longer.

But to all the Tau players out there hold on to the tau doctrine:

First hit the fast, than hit the dangerous:cool:

[gcsmith]

As much as I think that tau have it bad this guy really needs a rules lesson.
BARRAGE wont remove cover from AREA terrain, as such those pathfinders you put INSIDE cover. get a save.
Besides im tempted to try a 200 point 7 marker unit, 3 stealthsuits with 6 drones and a markerlight on leader. should be interesting.

[Rapture]

Besides im tempted to try a 200 point 7 marker unit, 3 stealthsuits with 6 drones and a markerlight on leader. should be interesting.
Agreed. My current markerlight choice is a 211 point unit of Pathfinders. Unfortunately, they are highly susceptible to death. Stealth and distance rolls might be enough to keep a unit of markerlights alive past turn 3.

The loss of the Devilfish that allows deepstrike scatter to be re-rolled might be a pain though. Now that I think about it, I use that pretty often.

[gcsmith]

Ive never used pathfinders in recent years, only time i used it was under old codex where markerlights were poo, i only used them for rail rifles

[Dalleron]

Just cuz you can infiltrate pathfinders doesn't mean you should. You could set them up in cover that would give them a -18 rerollable cover save and they would still die. This is because every time someone sees me put down pathfinders, they are target A1 and die by turn 2. They need better deployment and with range over most other tau guns, should be deployed amidst the rest of the army, not off alone thrown to the wolves.

My Tau are competitive against most armies, bar BA, as they seem to get up in my grill way too fast and I spend more time flying away in vehicles.

I will be one of the first to admit that the codex isn't representative of the Tau given the current environment. Just suck it up for the next while.

[Panxer]

I appreciate the comments and hope they continue.

My opinions are simply put, my opinions. It's a rant. I've got loads of sand in my 'neathers'. You don't agree with me? Great! I love my Tau! I've spent the last six months painstakingly (and expensively) building and painting a force that I'm proud of. I gave them a back-story, there's a commander who's got his own tale of being a sole survivor at the hands of Imperial aggression etc, I've logged countless hours building painting and modeling these things into a really decent looking army. I really enjoy the hobby aspect of it! It's the greatest part of having a Robotech looking army. They are my ODSTau! Now, onto the meat of the game and why we so desperately need a codex...

You've got this force that you've lovingly built and brought to the table, played almost non-stop since about June (now being December), played almost everyone (except blood angels and grey knights *because they're never around for some reason), played so many games you can't even remember the count anymore, researched and used so many different tactics (granted they weren't ALL losses. I tend to do very well typically against space marines, but I'd have to say only 10 percent of games go to the 'win' category). This can't be solely attributed only to my lack of tactical acumen or the dice gods laughing as I roll for 5 EMP hits (4+) on an open-topped vehicle with troops, score one hit, and then roll a 1 for effect resulting in the entire cadre disembarking and eviscerating the entire squad in one round of combat; or having a whole squad instadeathed by a pie plate that ignores cover and my armor save despite whether or not I have shield drones or shield generators. So, have I learned from my mistakes made? OH! Painfully and exhaustively so! I love tactica! This is why we need a new codex! Badly! To make us at least survivable, or on a par with IG or some such equivalent. These new codices are SO over powered that you can largely rely upon just their special abilities to get the job done, rather than a pulse carbine and the sincere hope that your commander has a Positional Relay to keep you out of the fight until turn 3 or 4 to deny the enemy easy kill points.

There's also a really neat video about it on warpigs which basically covers my thoughts at http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/tau-codex-spotlight/ , please by all means check it out. I tend to agree with their summation.

[Archon]

I've spent the last six months painstakingly (and expensively) building and painting a force that I'm proud of. I gave them a back-story, there's a commander who's got his own tale of being a sole survivor at the hands of Imperial aggression etc, I've logged countless hours building painting and modeling these things into a really decent looking army.

Thats fine - but out there in the nerdspace might be people that have "painstakingly" build Greyknight, Necron or Dark Eldar Armies before their current codecies came out - so what? It nothing new that a codex marks the end of the competive or power-sprial.

[QUOTE] This can't be solely attributed only to my lack of tactical acumen or the dice gods laughing as I roll for 5 EMP hits (4+) on an open-topped vehicle with troops, score one hit, and then roll a 1 for effect resulting in the entire cadre disembarking and eviscerating the entire squad in one round of combat; or having a whole squad instadeathed by a pie plate that ignores cover and my armor save despite whether or not I have shield drones or shield generators. So, have I learned from my mistakes made? OH! Painfully and exhaustively so! I love tactica! This is why we need a new codex! Badly! [QUOTE]

Do I read this right? Tau need a new codex because you´ve bad luck with your dices, or because your opponent fields a unit that is nasty vs. firewarriors?

[gcsmith]

Tau need a new book its fact, they are one of the weakest if not the weakest army out trhere, the only army which is good in 1 area.

[fuzzbuket]

TL;DR mainly becuause its another thread about:

i iz liek bestest powahgamer eva.

someone beated me

BROKENZ.

lots of people win with tau, just think sideyways.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

My codex is broken. Ok, before you get incensed, please note that I've studied up on both schools of thought regarding the Tau Empire: from the 'codex is broken', to 'it's the player who is broken'. I have to conclude, that yes, skill does play a part, but with the codex as it stands- is like digging a 6'x8'x4' grave with a KFC spork, and expecting to have it done by sun down. Never have I had to work so hard to accomplish so little, and I'll explain why....

Dont give up on them my fishy friend! I too feel your pain; Im attracted to 'off the wall' style armies and never have played Marines in any form. The downside is that we often play nearly double the years with the same rules set as opposed to the shiny GW poster children.

Nearly everytime I bring my Tau out to play I get a deep fear in my gut that Im going to be so frustrated at their lack of playability that Im going to 'rage quit'. But every now and then they surprise you....

I have been playing around with my list a little; and whoa did it surprise me! I played against my friend with his tourny IG outflanking Chimera spam. Its an incredibly hard army to fight against. I like to play my Tau very fast and aggressive so that I can get out of harms way but still shoot. In an amazing turn of luck I actually won that battle 10:5 killpoints! Dice, movement and correct application of firepower won the day but several things stuck out to me that helped with that victory:

1. I completely optimized my wargear. We have a lot of shiny stuff to choose from. Everything I chose statistically improved the model in question by a decent margin in order for me to take it. And with the few odd points left over I did some sneaky EMP grenades on all my Shas'el models.

2. I tried using a Marker Drone in all of my Firewarrior and Crisis Suit squads. I had 3 FW, 3 CS and 2 Pathfinder squads. MD allowed me to move and still get that 50/50 chance of hitting on 3+. It doesnt sound like much, and it is expensive, but actually hitting with more than a few models in a round of shooting did me wonders!

3. Use the Pathfinder Devilfish! I take two of these and let FW ride in them. They could effectively see the entire board between the two of them and allowed me to near precisely drop my CS teams on the flanks and rear of armor where they made short work of them. Sure its an old rule, but it still works great!

4. Use Hammerheads. I know that mathhammer teaches us the Broadside is good and all, but have you tried the optimized HH?? Its amazing! I run 3! I upgrade them to split fire and shoot like fast vehicles. They rarely get caught close quarters and splitting that fire lets me put the serious hurt on tops 3 units. I find them to be great and not as liable as the static Broadsides.

Above all just keep experimenting. I know you have done this already but I fully agree that you should be picky with your opponents. I will rarely fight a SW as I see that dex to be over optimized on points. But nids? Any day of the week. We have to suffer with these ancient rules; so nobody can crap on us for being picky at who we play.

If you want to know my current list I can post it. THinking about trying two Shas'o to take adv of that BS5, but that is for another time.

I know this is a large rant; but I also understand how disheartening it can be to play Tau. And that is why I wrote this long bunch of obvious so you keep you head up and still use em. Good luck!

[egorene]

@ Archon : It happend more than once that I couldn`t stop a Land Raider with 3 Broadsides , 1 Hammerhead
and 1 Piranha .

But that happens .

Currently I play with 3Plasma-missile Crisis , 36 FW , 32 Kroot , 8 Gun Drones , 2 Broadsides
and a plasma - fusion Shas`O , 1 tl missile crisis , 1 tl fusion its 1750

Spam Armies (orks, Nids) and Guard are very unloved opponents .
And Dreadnaughts in Drop pods , the rest is a game were i admit it can be though but
if the dice are nice it can work

[Panxer]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input!

I typically run a heavily mechanized list in that I try and get every suit I can in there for the points, and for me that's 15 XV8's.

In a 2000pt game, I can almost always get a shas'o and a shas'el with body guards and make them my tank/IC killers, the other 12 are most often used as RDF in either the killing blow or patient hunter models (of course this is highly dependent up whom I'm fighting), but I mostly kit out the rest of my XVv's with burst cannons and missile pods (TL dependent upon the team leader) giving them 9 S5AP5 shots and 6 S7AP4 missile shots which most often results in a hit or two, but because of the AP, most opponents laugh this off and I'm forced to redeploy and GTFO most times. But the math is sound. Give them a couple drones and you might last a turn or two before the ap 3 blast template of doom calls them back to the travel case.

I'm ambivalent with regard to Broadsides vs Hammerheads. They both have their purpose. I really like the HH mobility and the ability to use the submunition, however that's highly METT-C dependent for me. They both have their strength, and weaknesses, so take your pick.

Pathfinders I typically use in two fashions. I either take 2 teams of 5 and give the fish to the FW's to hide in.

I've stopped using Piranha. Most times I've used them, they're stock 60pts for 1 and that's excluding wargear that makes them survivable as a unit. The faq has helped with points costs, but it's points I could be sinking into some seeker missiles to put on fish or XV suit kit. If you like them, I can see their uses, but I prefer to keep them in the box and see what the new book brings. They might be viable again!

Otherwise, I will persist! It's not that I don't like playing! I do! Otherwise I wouldn't rant and rave so much!

[Uncle Nutsy]

yes, tau does still work against completely mechanized armies.. but when you play against horde armies, like I do, that's where they lack any viability. I can run two hammerheads with the railgun, either a third with ion cannon or sniper teams, full suite of crisis suits kitted out with burst cannons and TL flamers/burst cannon and missile launcher (multitrackers included), and full teams of firewarriors with pathfinders.

sounds like a good setup that can turn little bodies into paste, right?

nope.

Due to the fact that troops in other dexes are so cheap, I simply do not have weight of fire to deal with the oncoming rush of bodies, and as such get overrun a lot of times.

[Archon]

@ Archon : It happend more than once that I couldn`t stop a Land Raider with 3 Broadsides , 1 Hammerhead
and 1 Piranha .

But that happens .

Yes it happens. But a S10 AP1 TL Weapon is one of the best ranged anti-tank weapons in the game. Only the Manticore of the IG has a better Range und more changes to hurt the tank, because of "ordnance".

In one of my last turnee-games (maybe 1/2 year ago) with tau I managed to destroy an orc-battletank within the forcefield with a unit of 3 broadsides and marker-support. That was crucible (cause the nobs inside are more than capable to tear down my lines) to the whole advantage of the orks and was able to shot them to pieces step by step.




Currently I play with 3Plasma-missile Crisis , 36 FW , 32 Kroot , 8 Gun Drones , 2 Broadsides
and a plasma - fusion Shas`O , 1 tl missile crisis , 1 tl fusion its 1750

I won´t go like this. Fireknifes are too expensive. I would go with deathrain. 24 FW are enough - 12 for shooting and 2 x 6 for claiming objektives inside their devilfishs. Kroot are a good play at one small unit 10-12 for screening and bigger one 12 + 2-4 doggies for outflanking. Broadsides are better with 3 and 2 shield-drones. The shas´O should not equipped for close combat (i.E. 12";)) best is standard-layout -> Plasma/Missle or Plasma/Ion. A single TL/Fusion+MP krisis does well when guided by a PF-Fish - to kill nasty things like executioner or artillery-tanks.

[Lockark]

Tau still do generaly very well in a tournament setting, because they can make a army that's very good at killing the most popular 5th ed marien builds.

The problem is that it's all their good at killing.

*Shrugs*

When you play tau your trying to game the meta-game, and anything odd-ball screws you up.

[Archon]

Tau still do generaly very well in a tournament setting, because they can make a army that's very good at killing the most popular 5th ed marien builds.

Could you please tell us: Why?

[Dalleron]

Could you please tell us: Why?

The SM razorback spam lists. This is what I believe he's referring to. Missile pods being the weapon of choice in the Tau lists for doing such.

[Lockark]

The SM razorback spam lists. This is what I believe She's* referring to. Missile pods being the weapon of choice in the Tau lists for doing such.
*Sorry. Had to correct you.

Exactly.

Most competitive 5th ed space marine lists are some variation of a razor-spam list. Sure drop lists will give them some difficulty. But if played right can pull out a victory.

In competitive settings you don't see the drop lists that often anyway. Razorback spam is just that much more effective ageist a wider array of opponents.

It's really strange. A competitive Tau army will be good at killing other competitive lists, but allot of the units, lists and things considered "less competitive" can give them a hard time.
O___o

[Uncle Nutsy]

it's not really strange, it's just very lopsided.

[Panxer]

I'm fully convinced now. Tau can be optimized in a smaller point games. There's nothing more satisfying than making your opponent sweat because they can't field everything he wants to in a 500, 1000, 1250, or 1500 pt game. They actually have to think about what they take in order to give you the trouble he wants to give you.

I learned tonight that Kroot desperately need a 5+ armor save and some abilities other than being able to hide in the bushes.

I learned that Hammerheads with Ion cannons held in reserve can be devastating if used in concert with the killing blow. S7 AP3 weapon still has the ability to crack light armor AND take out Marines like they weren't even there. Wunderbar. What I would like to see in the new codex though, is some of the Imperial Armor mods to take things like Tau Plasma Cannons or Melta Cannons. Something along these lines. But I WILL say that Hammerheads are one of the least broken things in the codex.

XV Suits with a good mix of anti-armor and anti-troops can also be pretty nasty. There needs to be a point reduction to suits and weapon/support systems, but otherwise in a small paints game? It can be totally lethal.

I'm also really loving my new HQ load out of Shas"O with either shield drones or shield generator, HWMT, Bond Kinfe, CIB, Missile pod, x2 Shas'Vre bodyguard with TL Missile pods, HWMT's, gun drones, Plasma rifles, and TL missile pods. This is what I would like to coin an 'IC kill team'.

I'll play some more games and see how my hypothesis stands. I tend to agree with some of the previous posters regarding smaller points games.

[w7west]

Unfortunately, tau are the xenos counterpart to imp guard. Your troops are terrible in cc, and you like to shoot things. Guard get massive fire superiority and armor superiority and numbers superiority and air superiority. Tau get hoofs. This is just part of playing xenos my guy, learn to love it, and every time you do win it will be that much sweeter.