Talos Pain Engine: Is there a point to it?

[Necron2.0]

Sorry if this has been addressed already - I looked around and didn't see anything, though.

I bought the Talos because I want to paint it, but in each of the two times I've attempted fielding it, it's been shot up like a cheap ho before it could do much of anything effective at all. Basically, its life expectancy is at most two turns, and then only if my opponent is unlucky. When I've fielded it, my opponents hit it with weapons that could deal with a Toughness 7, and all those weapons laugh at 3+ saves. This really isn't even an inconvenience to my opponents, given that every other weapon they have usually rip right through raiders, ravagers and venoms, to say nothing of what they do to exposed Wyches and Kabalites. If anything, my opponents are relieved they have something to shoot at that doesn't waste the potential of a Lascannon or such. If the talos were fleet, then it might at least be a threat, but as it stands it just strikes me as a big, lumbering waste of points. It'd be better to take another Venom with Wyches/Kabalites instead.

What's your opinion on this? Has anyone found a way to effectively field it?

[FTE-Charge!!!]

I cant quite remember- can the Talos utilize a webway portal? If so, I think this would be a great way to get it close.

I suppose it has no deployment benefits like infiltrate or deep strike? (none that I can remember at least).

That is the problem with walking these guys. I would say if you deploy 2nd then put it on a flank that possesses the least amount of threat to it or deploy first and keep it reserved.

If you arent spamming them I would make sure you ramp up the threat of your other units. If Im sweating about your Ravagers at range and you keep the Talos somewhat hidden or in cover, then I would prob have to deal with it quickly when it is close enough to hurt. As a Daemon player big pieces of terrain to hide it behind are a blessing!

[thecactusman17]

First off, I don't field the Talos or anything Haemonculous related, but I'm surprised that you are having so many problems. On average, my light vehicles last until turn 4 at least, and I can't imagine a Talos having that many problems getting across the field if you are playing aggressively.

Aggressive is a pretty critical element to Dark Eldar play style. You have little or no defense on a lot of your models, so the best way to deal with that is to either commit everything to offense, or commit everything to denying your opponent opportunities to attack.

If the Talos isn't getting an opportunity to attack, you may want to start looking at how your army functions with him in tow. Are you throwing wyches in against shooters that can maul him from afar? Is your opponent throwing all his shooting at the model? Do they prioritize targets in any discernible pattern that you can exploit in future games? Is the low speed resulting in him not getting into threat range by the time the game is already decided?

Also, post your list here and let's see if we can offer suggestions to make that guy the real predator he should be.

[DrLove42]

I run a Talos, now using Haywire Launchers.

He has the same problem wraithlords have. With the exception of poison weapons, nearly everything that can wound him ignores the armour save, and most of them ignore his FNP if he gets it.

He does a good job of drawing high strenght fire away from vehicles as well!

If you can keep him in cover, hes scary. Mine tends to not be offensive, but defensive. Might no sit right with his fluff, but you can hide him at the back and when something scary gets close jump on it. His haywires can help supress transports as well. The last tournement i took him to, he bested the Swarmlord (in about 5 rounds of combat) and managed to death or glory a battlewagon that tried to run him over.

His other downside is its a heavy slot. You need Ravagers or Fliers to be good, so sacrificing one is hard. If 6th ed lets you sell your slots like is rumoured, him with 3 ravagers will be all kinds of mean

[Scion_of_Terra]

Any non-vehicle model can use the webway portal, so yes, this includes Taloi. Webway deployment is practically required for using them, but by the same token, they can be very effective if done this way. What I like to do is equip them with TL Heat Lances and send them after transports. If the Talos is in charge range, it'll also be within half range for the HL. Crack the shell in the shooting phase and eat the gooey insides in the assault, then rinse and repeat. Use in multiples for best effect. With proper portal deployment, this can begin on Turn 2, meaning your Talos will be happily munching parking lots for 4+ turns, assuming he survives that long - but that's what target saturation is for.

[Skari]

I have not had the chance to use one with the new book. But I can see the value in one. The trick is having the guts to drop one of the ravagers (usually means having to run scurge with HW launchers) :D

If anything tho I would run a chronos, for pain token goodness.

[thecactusman17]

As above Necron, I would suggest a webway portal list. However, if you are mostly mechanized, then I suggest instead getting up in your opponent's grill en masse and watching as they realize far too late that the lumbering tower of meat in the background is about to tear them a new orifice.

[Necron2.0]

Since someone asked, we were playing a 2000pt game (I was actually over by one point).

My list consisted of:

+-------
| 1 Archon with Shadow Field, Webway Portal, & Agoniser
|
| 9 Kabalite Warriors
|
| 1 Raider (for Archon & Kabalites) with Splinter Racks, Enhanced Aethersails & Flickerfield
+-------

+-------
| 10 Wyches with Haywire Grenades
|
| 1 Raider (for the above Wyches) with Enhanced Aethersails & Flickerfield
+-------

14 Wyches, one upgraded to Heckatrix with Agoniser

1 Talos Pain Engine with Chain Flails

+-------
| 4 Kabalite Trueborn with Blasters
|
| 1 Venom (for the preceding Kabalite Trueborn) with Splinter Cannon upgrade
+-------

+-------
| 4 Kabalite Trueborn with Blasters
|
| 1 Venom (for the preceding Kabalite Trueborn) with Splinter Cannon upgrade
+-------

+-------
| 4 Kabalite Trueborn with Blasters
|
| 1 Venom (for the preceding Kabalite Trueborn) with Splinter Cannon upgrade
+-------


9 Reavers, 3 with Blasters and Cluster Caltrops


9 Reavers, 3 with Blasters and Cluster Caltrops


I was facing Ultramarines. I don't recall the exact composition of my opponent's force, but I do know he had two Dakka Predators, two or three las-plas Razorbacks, a couple rhinos, three heavy flamer land speeders, one ten man squad of scouts and enough troops to fill everything, with overflow (i.e.: He had full marine squads, broken into combat squads, one combat squad from each full squad in a Razorback with the other combat squad on foot). I do remember one rhino had sternguard veterans while another had his command squad.

In both games we played, I started with the Talos, the unmounted Wyches and the Reavers in reserve.

In our first match, I ran the Archon's raider right up the middle at flat out. At the top of the second turn, before I could disembark the Archon, I rolled for reserves and everything arrived, so they were walking in from the board edge.

In the second game we played, the Archon's raider exploded, and all but two Kabalites were killed. Nanoseconds after that, the Archon was dakka'ed to a pastie goo. Again, no joy from the Webway Portal.

In both games, the marines slaughtered the Talos at distance with Lascannon fire from the Razorbacks, with additional support from Krak missiles fired from Rhino access points and/or foot-slogging marines. Because of how he'd positioned his armor, I couldn't get to the Razorbacks without guaranteeing I'd be slaughtered mercilessly by his counter-attack. I was also put into the position of need to down his land speeders first, as those could slaughter everything in my army, and in particular my bikes. As for his anti-armor response, he wasn't exactly lacking in things that could trash AV10.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

with that kind list the talos is not be used in its proper manner. talos are strictly a webway army must have, as stated before. take 2 heamons equiped with webways each and 4 wrack body guards. add troops, fast attack as desired. finally take 3 talosesess:D. with the webway your practically getting a talos per turn to slam into his line. when your army comes out of webways with talos shredding tanks and men alike youll quickly realize their worth. chronosessss:D are garbage if youre doing things right you dont need help getting pain tokens but do as you prefer

peace im out

[Cyth]

Try running some wracks in front of them for a cover save.

[thecactusman17]

Cyth, there's nothing to "run in front of" a Talos, it's a large model and the stuff that can actually give it a save aren't resilient enough (except maybe grotesques) to make it with their monster in tow. And in Dark Eldar, sacrificing units like that is a really surefire way to have your entire army collapse in on itself before it makes the enemy lines.

Webways are good. Brick-to-face rush is good. Backfield predator is good if you can't webway to the front lines. But a sacrificial lamb unit in front of it is a severe waste of points in almost all cases.

[Cyth]

The Talos isn't that big of a mini, and the spinal protrusions on Wracks enhance their ability to block the Talos' real estate. That said, the reason I run four squads of Wracks and two Talos is so that one squad of Wracks can screen the unit which screens the Talos. Anyone continuing to pour fire into this walking wave after turn 3 is either suffering from tunnel vision or playing a game where my reserves are going to sit off-board and laugh. As for the sacrificial lamb bit, yes depending on the structure of the army said lambs are included in.

You may not agree with my approach sir, but that doesn't make it invalid.

[Cyth]

The spinal protrusions on a wracks back enhance its' ability to cover a talos base. This coupled with a talos not being such a hefty mini itself have yielded favorable results for me. The reason I run four squads of wracks (4 of 8) is to allow the first wave to screen the second which screens the talos. Any opponent pouring fire into this walking wave after turn 3 is either suffering from tunnel vision or is laughing alongside my reserves off-table.

As for the sacrificial lamb bit, yes depending on the structure of the army said lambs are a part of.

You many not agree with my approach sir, but that doesn't make it invalid.

[w7west]

They work well in multiples in a wwp army. They become much more effective with a beastmaster squad on one side and a grotesque squad on the other. Basically they are there to make sure you are smashing dreads in close combat, other than that, beastmasters, grotesques, wyches, and hellions all make better assault units for the points and are faster or more durable.

[darthken]

there also great for sitting back and holding your objective hiding behind cover.

[doom-kitten]

I personally think the Talos is awesome, I always use it with the webway as it's the slowest piece of beep in the whole codex and dies easily to ranged attacks lucky T 7 makes it abit hard to kill, properly equipped it can **** out a load of attacks and can duke it out at range too (waste of points to give guns though, chain-flails rock), it's a great distraction and most of the time draws attention from the real cheese. Teaming in up with another Talos is nice but I prefer to coordinate the assualt with wyches this way they both benefit for the Pain and it gets that all important FnP. Using another unit is handy as it does gain that in the way cover save but being monstrous limits what it can hide behind and it doesn't look cool to have it slicking behind cover. So webway the guy, it's your best bet and using it to cover your base objective? The Hell? Waste of a model, who defends their objective anyway just take all the other ones.

[w7west]

I personally think the Talos is awesome, I always use it with the webway as it's the slowest piece of beep in the whole codex and dies easily to ranged attacks lucky T 7 makes it abit hard to kill, properly equipped it can **** out a load of attacks and can duke it out at range too (waste of points to give guns though, chain-flails rock), it's a great distraction and most of the time draws attention from the real cheese. Teaming in up with another Talos is nice but I prefer to coordinate the assualt with wyches this way they both benefit for the Pain and it gets that all important FnP. Using another unit is handy as it does gain that in the way cover save but being monstrous limits what it can hide behind and it doesn't look cool to have it slicking behind cover. So webway the guy, it's your best bet and using it to cover your base objective? The Hell? Waste of a model, who defends their objective anyway just take all the other ones.

that is a great take on the talos and I agree wholeheartedly with the wwp and chainflails bit. It is a wrecking ball in cc simple as that. They are pretty cheap to boot so any firepower they draw is fine as it gives the more fragile units some breathing room. I still feel they work best with beastmasters and grotesques also coming out of the webway since most armies will not have enough firepower to take out more than one of the three choices before they get into cc.