Cameron's Accent

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Is it me or does David Cameron sounds slightly American or Canadian? Less traditionally "British" for lack of a better term.

[Aldramelech]

Is it me or does David Cameron sounds slightly American or Canadian? Less traditionally "British" for lack of a better term.

As long as he keeps saying Nien! and Non! He's OK with me no matter were he comes from.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

As long as he keeps saying Nien! and Non! He's OK with me no matter were he comes from.

Lol:)

[MaltonNecromancer]

He sounds like a fatous little rah-rah boy who was educated at Eton and who would hunt the rest of us on horseback through the streets of London.

[eldargal]

I agree, what was the public thinking, electing someone who was educated at one of the best schools on the planet?:p On the bright side at least foreign dignitaries will be able to understand what he is saying.

[Aldramelech]

I agree, what was the public thinking, electing someone who was educated at one of the best schools on the planet?:p On the bright side at least foreign dignitaries will be able to understand what he is saying.

Exactly, would he prefer John Prescott? ;)

[MaltonNecromancer]

Exactly, would he prefer John Prescott?

Given the choice between Conservative elitist scum who are almost vaudevillian in their evil, and a complacent, arrogant, centre-right Labour that panders to middle England at the cost of the principles it once stood for, I choose neither.

My options as a left-wing voter are the Green Party (air-headed lunatics), the Socialist Party (an embarrassing collection of idiots), and so on. A cavalcade of failure leading a gaggle of mediocrity. Where is a sensible left-wing party for me to support? Nothing but striking my paper through.

I mean, I see things like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12282505
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12339401
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/10/oecd-uk-worst-social-mobility
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/01/social-mobility-held-back-government

And what I don't get, what I really don't get is why no-one is angry. And it's because the UK is a slave to an indolent and complacent culture of individuality that teaches The Great Lie that if you work hard and try your best, you'll succeed in life. The truth is that you can work hard and try your best and all it'll do is lead you to eking out a hand-to-mouth existence, while your social "betters" look down their noses at you and wonder why you have the sheer audacity to simply bother existing in the first place.

So, no, I wouldn't like John Prescott. I'd like a genuine left-wing option, rather than a right-wing and a centre right-wing option. Because I actually have qualfications in Economics, and don't agree that laissez-faire competition is A Good Thing. My evidence is the current economic downturn; you know, the one caused by totally free market competition. I'm not looking forwards to The Great Depression V.2.0 that is all too possible (what with history repeating itself and all).

Basically, I've always hated politics, because it's always been a rigged game, yet it pretends it's not. It's tedious and exhausting and frankly soul-destroying.

If you want to understand the detailed reasons for my hate, I suggest you read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Injustice-Why-Social-Inequality-Persists/dp/1847427200/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324557669&sr=8-1

The numbers do not lie.

[eldargal]

What exactly do you want, then?

I'm genuinely curious, generally when people start talking about social elites and inequality it devolves into punishing the more successful, or the aristocracy, or whoever they want to blame for things not being the way they want. As opposed to constructive plans on how to remedy it without just punishing the 'haves'.

[MaltonNecromancer]

What do I want?

I want everyone to read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Injustice-Why-Social-Inequality-Persists/dp/1847427200/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324557669&sr=8-1

My political heart cannot be summarised in a single post on a wargaming website. I'm not going to go into my reasons, because they are massively complicated, and would require me to post something akin to a book, rather than a forum posting. And it wouldn't matter, because all it would do is get a whole lot of right-wingers decrying me as a fool.

What do I believe? I believe we are all responsible for each other, and that the second we choose not to be, we give free reign to all the evils the human race chooses to indulge.

Who is to blame for the problems of our society? Every single one of us, on a personal level.

Do I think anything can be done? No. Not now. It's far, far too late now.

No, I think we're headed for a Great Depression, and one that will most probably end in some kind of vast and horrible war. I think the Haves in our society are just as miserable as the Have Nots, but for totally different reasons (the highest incidences of suicidal depression in the Uk are found in young women, in the 18-23 age bracket. The rate for them is 83%. Sounds unbelievable, but the facts do not lie. They're in the book I've posted above). I think the more unequal our society the less happy everyone is (including the Haves), but I don't think people are capable of believing that, because we're fed a daily diet of advertising horsepoop that tells us that having more will make us happier when that's just not true; having enough will make us happy, but people just don't want to believe that.

Basically, my life has been one loooooooong object lesson in showing me that I am powerless to affect any change on any level except a personal one. Every time I have ever sought to affect change, whether through discussion or action, I have not. And how can I change something like the fact that in 2010, by the age of 30, men in the UK earned on average 40% more than women in comparative careers? I can't. So now, I measure my successes in individual human beings succeeding, because I have no more power than that.

What do I want?

People to stop asking for a simple answer to a horrendously complex series of questions that require degree-level education to even think of answering. People to stop assuming they have an answer when they don't have that level of education. I don't know enough to run a country or affect successful economic change; I know enough to know that those in power are making a horrible bloody job of it, though. I want people to stop telling me that competition creates fairness like it's some undeniable truth of the universe when it's patently not true. Sometimes it creates fairness yes, but usually all it does is create an apex predator that runs roughshod over the rest of us.

What do I want?

Eton school and all the whole notion of private schools, all that elitist garbage to go the way of the dodo. It never will, but it should.

[eldargal]

Well as an evil, social superior I'd say I agree with most of that.:p Except the bit about private schools, but then I may be biased as my family have a long connection with Eton. I just don't believe the government has any right to dictate where parents send their children to be educated. Closing Eton would just destroy one of our education systems great assets and send those students to similar institutions overseas, to the detriment of this country.

One of the biggest hurdles towards a more equal society is getting the 'lower classes' to value education more highly. I read art history with a boy who was disowned by his family and abandoned by his friends because he wanted to go to university and study Art History 'like a fagg*t'. In fact many of the working class students had similar stories, varying in severity obviously. There is no top-down conspiracy to stop the 'lower orders' from casting off their shackles, its merely systemic neglect, apathy and stupidity at all levels.

[MaltonNecromancer]

One of the biggest hurdles towards a more equal society is getting the 'lower classes' to value education more highly

Seriously, read the book I listed. There are reasons for this. Many, many reasons, and they're not as simple as "Well, the poor just don't want to learn". Trust me, after teaching English for nine years to everything from absolute bottom sets to near genius level intellects I can tell you for an empirical fact: in their heart, everyone loves learning new things. They may pretend otherwise, they may not think they do, they may not even want to, but they do. Everyone, without exception, can be brought around to love education. Every single person, regardless of their social status, class, or personal ambitions.

The problems are to do with aspirations, and those aspirations are mangled by a society that places value on the wrong things. I can't summarise a hundred pages of statistical analysis in a single post, but seriously, read the book. Read it, and you will not regret it.

As far as Eton goes... I'd get rid of the whole system of selective schools, single-sex schools, faith schools, anything and everything that was elitist. We're all created with equal rights, but not with equal opportunities, and that's something we could easily change, that would immediately benefit everyone, including the rich, because I'll tell you now and for a fact - Eton does nothing magically different in its lessons than any other school in the country. This is because there is no magical formula for good teaching. It's a case of planning, marking, blood, sweat and more stress than a human being can feasibly take for a good two thirds of the year.


There is no top-down conspiracy to stop the 'lower orders' from casting off their shackles

Agreed. But the people with the money define the media, and the media defines the beliefs of the public at large (because really, how many people are going to read the huge, dry books on history, economics, politics, media, rhetoric and so forth that are becessary to understand our highly complex, insane world? Unless it's everyone, it's not enough). So it's not a conspiracy; Hanlon's Razor is all important in anything to do with society. Just as it tells us, we live in an insane, stupid, prejudiced, greedy, elitist society, mired in a misery it will never be able to shake off. Ever.

No-one deserves special treatment, because no-one is special. That's the bottom line. Rich or poor, everyone dreams of happiness. The current disparity in everything actively prevents all of us from achieving it... and all because the rich simply don't know what's good for them. As I say, the numbers simply don't lie. Being rich doesn't make anyone happy; it simply gives you a different set of problems.

[eldargal]

Oh I know the cause isn't simple, but the outcome is the same and needs changing.:) It certainly isn't the case that the poor don't want to learn, often the poor are bullied out of learning by their peers or the learning they receive is subpar and fails to inspire them further. I do agree re: aspirations, its one reason why I loathe celebrity culture so much, where we prize fame and fortune over learning and morality.

Well, this is where I disagree. If you are of above average intelligence as far as I'm concerned you deserve to be given an education that will match it. By the same token that education would be wasted on someone who doesn't care for learning or is less intelligent. So why waste it on them? Someone with an IQ for 140 needs a different education to someone with an IQ of 70, if you split the difference and give them both an education suited to someone with an IQ of 105, the 70 will struggle and be demoralised and the 140 will be bored and won't apply him/herself. It benefits no-one and damages society in the long run, it has been tried before, notably in Communist countries.

I am also vehemently opposed to the abolition of single-sex schools. I would have had a hellish time at a mixed educational school, and studies have shown girls perform better in a single sex environment. Why should they be made to suffer simply to force people into some kind of one size fits all system? Faith schools, well I loathe them, but as I said I'm strongly opposed to the guvmint having absolute control over the education of its populace.

Actually Eton and other private schools have one significant difference to state schools: they have to deliver results to survive. I have friends who teach in state schools, and they moan incessently about not being able to put any kind of pressure on the kids to work hard without the parents coming to the school and screaming at them and making a huge fuss. Try that at Eton and you will probably just aid your child in his expulsion. 'Failure is not an option'.;)

Believe me I'm well aware of the fact that money doesn't make you happy.

[Aldramelech]

What do I want?

I want everyone to read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Injustice-Why-Social-Inequality-Persists/dp/1847427200/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324557669&sr=8-1

My political heart cannot be summarised in a single post on a wargaming website. I'm not going to go into my reasons, because they are massively complicated, and would require me to post something akin to a book, rather than a forum posting. And it wouldn't matter, because all it would do is get a whole lot of right-wingers decrying me as a fool.

What do I believe? I believe we are all responsible for each other, and that the second we choose not to be, we give free reign to all the evils the human race chooses to indulge.

Who is to blame for the problems of our society? Every single one of us, on a personal level.

Do I think anything can be done? No. Not now. It's far, far too late now.

No, I think we're headed for a Great Depression, and one that will most probably end in some kind of vast and horrible war. I think the Haves in our society are just as miserable as the Have Nots, but for totally different reasons (the highest incidences of suicidal depression in the Uk are found in young women, in the 18-23 age bracket. The rate for them is 83%. Sounds unbelievable, but the facts do not lie. They're in the book I've posted above). I think the more unequal our society the less happy everyone is (including the Haves), but I don't think people are capable of believing that, because we're fed a daily diet of advertising horsepoop that tells us that having more will make us happier when that's just not true; having enough will make us happy, but people just don't want to believe that.

Basically, my life has been one loooooooong object lesson in showing me that I am powerless to affect any change on any level except a personal one. Every time I have ever sought to affect change, whether through discussion or action, I have not. And how can I change something like the fact that in 2010, by the age of 30, men in the UK earned on average 40% more than women in comparative careers? I can't. So now, I measure my successes in individual human beings succeeding, because I have no more power than that.

What do I want?

People to stop asking for a simple answer to a horrendously complex series of questions that require degree-level education to even think of answering. People to stop assuming they have an answer when they don't have that level of education. I don't know enough to run a country or affect successful economic change; I know enough to know that those in power are making a horrible bloody job of it, though. I want people to stop telling me that competition creates fairness like it's some undeniable truth of the universe when it's patently not true. Sometimes it creates fairness yes, but usually all it does is create an apex predator that runs roughshod over the rest of us.

What do I want?

Eton school and all the whole notion of private schools, all that elitist garbage to go the way of the dodo. It never will, but it should.

I want to win the lottery, bed Sara Michelle Geller and be allowed to shoot at people I don't like, hey ho, you can't always get what you want.

Seriously, I live in a Council flat and earn less then 20K a year (and work damn hard for it), don't be telling me about Social Inequality, I'm guessing your not on a low income? In my experience you've got to have money in the first place to have opinions like that.

It hasn't escaped me that all the really hard core lefty's in my area live in £350,000 houses............

[Denzark]

The tories want power for themselves. On the way up they'll look after the hoipolloi because a strong country with a good economy would add to their millions.

The left want power so they can nick money off the middle classes and ***** it away in their social engineering experiments. Irrespective of results they will then retire to the lecture circuit, build up a £10m prperty portfolio and massage their social egos to the tinkling of the champagne glasses in the enlightened corners of Islington (Tony B. Liar).

At least Prescock is an honest socialist champion of the poor working man. Oh sorry, he's a lord.

Ach well, whilst I'm on day 22 of 180 in Afghanistan, all I can say is: "Let them eat cake"

PS Malty stop reading crap like the Graunida and watching the beeb, you will feel much better.

[MaltonNecromancer]

If you are of above average intelligence as far as I'm concerned you deserve to be given an education that will match it. By the same token that education would be wasted on someone who doesn't care for learning or is less intelligent. So why waste it on them? Someone with an IQ for 140 needs a different education to someone with an IQ of 70, if you split the difference and give them both an education suited to someone with an IQ of 105, the 70 will struggle and be demoralised and the 140 will be bored and won't apply him/herself.

You have just described education under the Tories. Up until last year, we had apprenticeships, vocational qualifications, and a host of other things carefully designed for the large number of non-academic pupils. The Tories detest these, because they want to rewind the clock back to the 1950's. Michael Gove in particular is an evil, thoughtless pillock. Because of him, school success is to be judged based on the "new" baccalaurate - which means schools not only have no reason to offer those vocational courses, but actively have a disincentive to do so. The education system was not perfect, but it was really good at providing individually tailored learning and qualification packages. That has now all been phased out, because the Conservatives want a return to the way things were. Even though the way things were was unhelpful, and meant a huge number of people left school without useful qualifications. I believe everyone should be given a good education - that doesn't mean everyone should leave with nine A* GCSE's. It means the top sets should leave with A* GCSEs, and everyone else should leave with whatever qualifications best prepare them for the world of work they will most likely initially engage with. Which the Conservatives do not want. They want everyone learning a core of academic subjects that most of them, frankly, will not use. It's ideologically driven madness and it makes me very unhappy.


I am also vehemently opposed to the abolition of single-sex schools. I would have had a hellish time at a mixed educational school, and studies have shown girls perform better in a single sex environment. Why should they be made to suffer simply to force people into some kind of one size fits all system?

I had a hellish time at an all boys' school; it was seven years of pain. Now, I don't know if it would have been better if it had been mixed; all I do know is that having worked at many intergrated schools, it's better. It just is. People just develop in a more rounded way. Single sex education is toxic IMO. Yes, girls do better on their own - I've no objection to single sex classes... but there's no way boys and girls should be brought up without each other. It's wrong. You and I will have to agree to disagree on this one.


Irrespective of results they will then retire to the lecture circuit, build up a £10m prperty portfolio and massage their social egos to the tinkling of the champagne glasses in the enlightened corners of Islington (Tony B. Liar).

Tony Blair was as left wing as Cameron. We haven't had a left-wing Labour leader since John Smith back in 1994. Blair is, was and will always be a right-wing scumbag. Lest we forget, Margaret Thatcher said he was her proudest achievement.


PS Malty stop reading crap like the Graunida and watching the beeb, you will feel much better.

Hmmm. So where should I get my information? The Daily Fail? Seriously, the idea that we should avoid the media is not a useful one. We have to get our information from somewhere. Yes, the Guardian is arrogant as all hell, and annoyingly sanctimonous, but they're better than the Daily Torygraph. I've got to get information about the world from somewhere relatively reliable. My main sources at the moment are the Beeb, Channel 4 news, Al-Jazeera, the Guardian, and a few others. It's part of tryng to be a responsible and informed member of society. Apathy is not a position I agree with.


Seriously, I live in a Council flat and earn less then 20K a year (and work damn hard for it), don't be telling me about Social Inequality, I'm guessing your not on a low income? In my experience you've got to have money in the first place to have opinions like that.

Hmmm. Ad Hominem attacks, eh?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdHominem
So if I'm well off, I'm wrong? By extension, I'm only allowed to be selfless if I'm poor? What a facile argument.

After university I was well below minimum wage - for two and a half years I lived in a Sheffield council flat on eighty quid a week. I wasn't on the dole either, and could claim none - no benefits, nothing. So it was usually a choice between food and heating so don't you presume to lecture me on what life is like when impoverished. I have been there, I have paid my dues, every penny I have made I have had to work for, and I feel no need to apologise for being better off now than I was then. There is no glory or nobility in impoverishment. Just problems that need sorting.Oh, and I just got a mortgage well under half the £350,000 you quoted. This is after fifteen years of saving up, and I am well aware that it could end up taken from me at any minute if the economic downturn continues. So let's not play "poorer than thou" shall we? It doesn't do a thing to prove I'm wrong, and it demeans us both.



It hasn't escaped me that all the really hard core lefty's in my area live in £350,000 houses............

Nor has it escaped me that all the really hard core righties in my area live in the poor parts of town. Shall we consider that one of life's little ironies, eh?


I want to win the lottery, bed Sara Michelle Geller and be allowed to shoot at people I don't like, hey ho, you can't always get what you want.

My point entirely; I was simply replying to the question "What do you want?" I suppose I should have known better than to reply, but hey ho.


The left want power so they can nick money off the middle classes and ***** it away in their social engineering experiments.

Is that better or worse than the right, who want power so they can nick money from the poorer classes, and **** it all away on gold plated sewer covers?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5357568/MPs-expenses-Sir-Peter-Viggers-claimed-for-1600-floating-duck-island.html

[Aldramelech]

A whole two and a half years eh? Poor you................

[MaltonNecromancer]

A whole two and a half years eh? Poor you................

Oh, I'm sorry; I didn't realise it had to longer to make my opinions valid. :rolleyes: So pulling myself out of that was evidently the wrong thing to do! You learn something new every day, eh?

Well, to avoid any more confusion, maybe you could tell me: how long should I have been poor for before I was allowed to be taken seriously? You don't have to be too specific - maybe you could just tell me to the nearest month? I mean, I'm really annoyed I missed out on membership in the Poor People Are The Only Ones Who Can Make Any Comment On Poverty Club, but maybe they'll take me if I'm sincere enough? I mean, I could give away everything I've worked for, but I really don't see how that'll help my opinions carry any more weight.

I mean, I suppose I could talk about my (rather extensive) experiences working with and helping disadvantaged young people from very poor family backgrounds, but you'd probably disrgeard that. I mean, they're not my experiences, so what would I know? Having to work day in and day out with people who have been failed by their famly and society, trying to get them through their exams... I'm rich though, so I can't have any sympathy for their suffering. I'm not part of the Poor People Are The Only Ones Who Can Make Any Comment On Poverty Club.

You ever think that maybe it's possible to be left wing because you see the suffering of others and it affects you a little more than your own? Or is that a totally alien concept? You know, empathy for other human beings.

[Aldramelech]

When you've grown up like that, lived your life like that and know that your life will never be any different, when you've reached the point when you are past the point of caring, when you no longer fear death because death will be the final escape from the constant unending struggle that your life is..................

I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy your gap two and half years.

[MaltonNecromancer]

When you've grown up like that, lived your life like that and know that your life will never be any different, when you've reached the point when you are past the point of caring, when you no longer fear death because death will be the final escape from the constant unending struggle that your life is..................

So what you're saying is that a dog which has been beaten all its life will reject any hand, even one that offers help? Sounds lke petulant teenage angst to me, but what would I know? Certainly nothing about pain like that; after all, I'm rich. Yup. That's me. I mean, I grew up rich, went to one of those bigh rich schools, and then went on to bathe in gold coins, blowing my nose on notes like a big rich man. A big rich man who cannot possibly know anything about anything because he gave up his right to. I'm just not real enough, I suppose. I mean, I've never even spent a single day unhappy or depressed (not like you) so there it is. Big rich man.

Rich.

Anyway, in the spirit of the season, I give you a song which I hope will help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJvKyKBh-Q

I hear they speak directly to those who


no longer fear death because death will be the final escape from the constant unending struggle that your life is..................

which I hope isn't you.

[eldargal]

See, I don't agree I described education under the Tories because when I say everyone deserves the education that is best for them that includes apprenticeships and all the programs that have been cut. I wholeheartedly agree it is a disaster.

I'm no great fan of the Tories (or politicians in general), I'm just suspicious of most left wing attempts to remove inequality because throughout history it tends to translate to bringing the elite down not raising the non-elites up, and that never works out well.

You have just described education under the Tories. Up until last year, we had apprenticeships, vocational qualifications, and a host of other things carefully designed for the large number of non-academic pupils. The Tories detest these, because they want to rewind the clock back to the 1950's. Michael Gove in particular is an evil, thoughtless pillock. Because of him, school success is to be judged based on the "new" baccalaurate - which means schools not only have no reason to offer those vocational courses, but actively have a disincentive to do so. The education system was not perfect, but it was really good at providing individually tailored learning and qualification packages. That has now all been phased out, because the Conservatives want a return to the way things were. Even though the way things were was unhelpful, and meant a huge number of people left school without useful qualifications. I believe everyone should be given a good education - that doesn't mean everyone should leave with nine A* GCSE's. It means the top sets should leave with A* GCSEs, and everyone else should leave with whatever qualifications best prepare them for the world of work they will most likely initially engage with. Which the Conservatives do not want. They want everyone learning a core of academic subjects that most of them, frankly, will not use. It's ideologically driven madness and it makes me very unhappy.]

Let's try and keep it polite though, I don't think MaltonNecromancer is your typical middle class Fabian socialist trying to enlighten the masses with this superior intellect and knowledge of what is best for the lower orders. :) You can't really blame Aldy for being suspicious and distrustful of that type, though, the middle class left has promised much and singularly failed to deliver particularly when it comes to the white working class.

[Aldramelech]

I'm 40 years old dickhead...............