Chaos Wishlisting

[mstingray]

So with rumours of a new chaos codex in the works what are your guy's wishlists for a new codex? Apart from the obvious shoutings of MORE VARIETY!:D

Personally I would like Psychic defence to be standard on all sorcerers, but instead of stopping a spell cast within 24", just causing an automatic Perils attack. I can see the Sorcerers being too arrogant to actually stop the spell (they have given their lives to chaos and have received numerous boons).

I would also like to see the profiles of chaos Lords (and on a lesser extent chosen, WS5 & I5?) to be almost over the top. The fluff behind it being that a Lord that has risen to power whilst within the eye of terror for 10,000 years is going to be pretty good in combat. Maybe something like:

WS |BS| S| T| W|I | A| Ld | Sv.
7 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 6| 4 | 10 | 3+/5++

Obviously starting points would be high, but I can imagine a fully fledged Chaos Lord being nothing short of badass!

The final thing I would really like to see are new daemon engines, I mean I like the defiler but its undivided. It would be awesome to see other daemon engines dedicated to the Chaos Gods to be in the new book. Maybe nerf the Brass Scorpion a bit and other daemon engines.

Anyway, what other things would people want in the new 'dex?

[DarkLink]

Causing auto-perils on any psyker is absurdly good. Most psykers only have 5++ at best, so that rule would basically mean "you get two psychic powers before your Librarian auto-dies". Not even remotely balanced.

[mstingray]

It was only a suggestion, maybe shorten the range, or just make it more likely to perils, any double for example

[Angel of Rapture]

Mono god armies or big penalties for using things like a lash Prince with Berzerkers, Cult Terminators and God specific vehicles. Sonic weapons on vehicles, more named HQ choices with eternal warrior 10000 years has to count for something doesnt it?

[DarkLink]

The basic cult troops need to be reworked, but more importantly their bonuses need to extend to their other elite units. Cult terminators that are weaker than basic Berzerkers or Plague Marines is stupid.

I think the simplest way to handle the cult situation is to have an HQ with a mark unlock that God's units. You could take units from a different God, but you'd have to take them in a non-scoring slot with limited availability. It's simple, straightforward with no need for complex rules regarding who can take what.

So for example, take a Khorne Lord/Daemon Prince. Berzerkers/Terminator Berzerkers are now moved from Elites to Troops, giving you two cult army troop options. The HQ would also unlock Berzerker jump infantry in Fast Attack slot, and Juggernaughts/Bloodletters in the Elite slots. That gives you five unique cult units that you can create a solid army from, while having a very simple system for regulating who can take those units. You remain fluffy without having to deal with complex rules.

You could apply the same things to each different God as well.

Even better, if you make Daemon Princes expensive and beastly, being 200-300 points, you're not going to have the points to make an effective army with multiple Gods. You'd be spending so many points in your HQ just to unlock units that you wouldn't be able to afford many of said units. But you could still do it if you really wanted to, just for fun.


It was only a suggestion, maybe shorten the range, or just make it more likely to perils, any double for example

Oh, yeah, I like the idea in general. Forcing Perils rather than stopping powers is a good twist on psychic defense. I'd say that a 24" range forcing Perils on doubles would be a fair ability, as long as you can't take say 4 Sorcerers like Space Wolves can do with Rune Priests.

[Scion_of_Terra]

I like the whole beefing Chaos lords idea. I remember my army-eating 300-point Terminator lord from the last codex with great fondness.
Cult units are a must, both for dedicated units and squad upgrades. For me, this means letting my terminators take sonic weaponry. While we're on the subject, sonic weaponry needs to go waaay down in points. A single Blastmaster is currently 40 points, which is absolutely ridiculous. You could get a ******* rhino for less.
The auto-perils concept is an intriguing idea. Maybe if it were activated on a 4+.
PLASTIC RAPTORS AND DREADNAUGHTS.
I get that they probably won't be getting certain 'newer' units like Whirlwinds or thunderfire cannons. But in return, how about stuff that would have been around during the Heresy that the Imperium has lost, like advanced plasma weaponry or jetbikes?
Special characters that a: are worth the points we pay for them and b: do stuff besides kill things in combat, like force org switching or armywide bonuses?

[the jeske]

to make it more simple . DP beat stick . big cost , best in hth that is all. lord only dude that unlocks stuff . give option to buy psychic levels if no khorn mark taken .
casting stuff at chaos should be more dangerouse . chaos player can force a re-roll of a single psychic die . if tzeench 2.

NM cost unchanged . sonic weapons build in . EC cost more then GK with sb and ammo upgrade but get no psychic power or force weapons .

a Lt lvl HQ , this one should be able to give a single unit buffs [something like want tank hunter well your 140pts dude with death screamer has to sit with the havocks for that] etc.

But to be honest , unless JJ reprints his 3ed dex as our new one , nothing GW does can make the new dex worse then the Gav one. they cant even mess up the fluff . Even Ward fluff would be an improvment.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Plague Zombies!!!! Please!!!

[wittdooley]

You realize the 10000 years isn't typically anywhere close to 10000 years yeah? Most of the fluff suggests that 2-3 days in the warp could potentially amount to 200-300 years in real time. There's no concrete time, and while they are older than most other marines, the chaos lords certainly aren't 10000 years old.

I'd like to see god specific armies become viable and, quite frankly, the way forces are typically created as opposed to all the chaos undivided we see now.

[Lockark]

Well I want to be able to see viable mono-god armies, I don't want to see mixed god armies punished/Not be able to be done anymore.

It should be something like if you take a marked HQ, cult units of that god get bonuses. Having a Emperor's Children Chaos lord gives bonuses to your noise marine units.

Then to flip that if you have a undivided lord, you should get different "perks". Bassicly each perk unlocks different Chaos Legions/war-bands.


That why you can still represent something like a World Eater's Warband that has picking up Rubric Marines or Noise marine mercenaries or something.
=3

[DarkLink]

Though there's talk of having multiple Chaos codices, I don't see a real need for it. There isn't a need for so many SM codices, due to the whole Chapter Tactics system. You could consolidate all the Marine codices into one book, other than Grey Knights. Even Space Wolves could be fit in without losing their uniqueness, as most of the difference in their army comes from a handful of unique units (Wolf Guard, Thunderwolf Cavalry), and most of the other difference could be changed simply by giving them a unique Chapter Tactics.

So they should have a system where you pick your Chapter (or the Founding Chapter your chapter came from), giving your dudes a unique Chapter Tactics and unlocking a couple of unique units and some Force Org swapping. Dark Angels would get armywide Stubborn, and Bikes and Terminators as troops.



Same principle could be applied to the Chaos Legions. Pick your Legion, get a unique set of special rules, and unlock certain units and FOC swaps. Picking World Eaters gives normal dude Furious Charge, moves Berzerkers to Troops, and unlocks Bloodletters and Juggernauts of Khorne. Night Lords, on the other hand, wouldn't get Bloodletters, but would have access to Raptors and Bikes as troops and have Hit and Run/Acute Senses on everything.

[mstingray]

You realize the 10000 years isn't typically anywhere close to 10000 years yeah? Most of the fluff suggests that 2-3 days in the warp could potentially amount to 200-300 years in real time. There's no concrete time, and while they are older than most other marines, the chaos lords certainly aren't 10000 years old.

I remember reading the opposite is also true, to some extent, so even if not for 10,000 years its still going to be a long time.

My mate also suggested that chaos being chaos, that all units have a 6+ inv. save vs. psychic spells.

[Scrumblegort]

Another thing to remember is that not all Lords are survivors of the Horus Heresy. There is probably just as many, if not more, Chaos Lords (or similar title/ranks) that were created post heresy (like Honsou), or were Loyalists turned Traitor (Lord Zhufor). So while I think a Chaos Lord should get a buff, I don't think it should be THAT much greater statline wise then a Marine Captain or Chapter Master. Where I think a Chaos Lord should shine and be separate from their Loyalist counterparts is in special rules and wargear.

A rather different idea I was thinking of was, what if instead of totally abandoning the Icon system, they make it so you can chose to give a some units Icons OR Marks. Marks would cost X amount of points per model, and would essentially turn the unit into their cult equivalent, so a Khorne marked Raptor unit would be like Berserker Raptors, or Tzeentch Marked Terminators would be like Rubric Termies. Meanwhile Icons would pretty much be what they are now, except cheaper, and if the Icon Bearer dies you can roll (maybe a 4+) to see if another Marine picks up the Icon before it falls/breaks/whatever.

That way with the pay-per-model Mark system you end up with a smaller elite style Cult/Legion army. Where as with the cheaper flat rate of the Icon system you are encouraged to take larger units leading to a more horde style Renegade Chapter/Undivided Warband type army. You wouldn't be restricted to one system either, so you could take mixed army of some units with marks, some with icons, and as long as you made sure to model them clearly it would be easy for your opponent to tell them apart ("Okay so those Raptors are Rapterkers because they have bunny ears and chainaxes, but those Nurglenators are only Icon'd because one of them is holding a big flagpole thingy and they aren't totally covered in slime."). Also that way unlike in the 3.5 codex, you can still take a Tzeentch Marine army that IS NOT Thousand Sons.

[Blkswrdsman]

I want the Night Lords to have their own section in the code with their own perks. I want them to make night fighting last and get extra bonuses for night fighting. They don't really follow any chaos god. They really aren't fans of demons any either. I think they all should have the infiltrate rule or something that puts emphasis on their stealthy ways. Also to add in with the fluff their models should be allowed to be represented in a mix mash of different space marine/ chaos space marine armor/ gear within reason. The raptors could have wings like the sanguinary guard. Personally I feel that the chaos legions have always been under powered. The majority of the chaos space marines that are still around are from the original founding in comparison to many regular space marine chapters that have had seen multiple foundings and have recruited many new members.
Ave Dominus Nox!!