IG Manticore and 'Weapon Destroyed'

[FTE-Charge!!!]

Hello all,

Came up in a game the other night: how does the "weapon destroyed' result on a Manticore work?

The entry states that it has "storm eagle rockets'. Not very specific in regards to whether or not I could destroy all 4 in one shot.

My LGS peeps thought that bc it was 4 one shot weapons that I could only destroy 1 missile per result. I tend to think that I destroy the whole rack of missiles with that result.

Please let me know your thoughts or a rules ruling on the subject and reference your evidence.

Thanks in advance!

[Rapture]

The manticore has a single weapon that can fire four times, not four weapons that can each fire once. So that means that one weapon destroyed result neuters the vehicle.

Remind them that the manticore is already one of the best vehicles in the game and doesn't need any wishful rules interpretations to make it any better.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

I agree whole-heartedly with you but the overwhelming majority of players that were in my LGS at the time (mainly power gamers) sided with the opponent and his manticore only suffered one missile destroyed. Big suprise, right?

Could others from the community please comment on this issue so that we may have a majority consensus? The manticore is a powerful and oft-used vehicle and Im suprised this issue hasnt arrisen before.

[gendoikari87]

was not this faqed already?

[FTE-Charge!!!]

No FAQ result. It is rather old at 2009 and still references the old Inquisition books.

I suppose the main consideration is whether "Storm Eagle Rockets" are considered 1 weapon, or 4 separate weapons.

I believe that it is 1, as the Storm Raven (as an example) is said to have 4 of its one shot rockets, not "Blood Rockets" which then can be fired up to 4 times....

[robrodgers46]

I think simple examination of the model proves you correct. It is a missile rack with 4 missiles, not four separate missile launchers. It would be like saying getting a weapon destroyed on a Predator meant you took out only one autocannon.

I play IG, and have Manticores, and would never try and make that claim.


BB

[Iceman]

The "weapon" being destroyed is the Storm Eagle missile launcher. That is a weapon. The Storm Eagle rockets are ammunition for the weapon.
Based on your opponent's logic, when a weapon destroyed result occurs on an Exorcist, it only destroys one of D3 weapons.

[thecactusman17]

I play Dark Eldar jetfighters. I'd say that they probably clarified the rules a bit after the Manticore for the flyer missiles, and you should be treating it as four separate weapon systems. The missile system is clearly just a transport system with 4 self-propelled missiles on it, they can even be removed individually. Of course, in addition, that means that when they are all gone and it's immobilized...

[Rapture]

I play Dark Eldar jetfighters. I'd say that they probably clarified the rules a bit after the Manticore for the flyer missiles, and you should be treating it as four separate weapon systems. The missile system is clearly just a transport system with 4 self-propelled missiles on it, they can even be removed individually. Of course, in addition, that means that when they are all gone and it's immobilized...

You need to do some research and think things out before you go around spreading your ideas. Especially when your ideas are wrong.

[robrodgers46]

I play Dark Eldar jetfighters. I'd say that they probably clarified the rules a bit after the Manticore for the flyer missiles, and you should be treating it as four separate weapon systems. The missile system is clearly just a transport system with 4 self-propelled missiles on it, they can even be removed individually. Of course, in addition, that means that when they are all gone and it's immobilized...

You are treating the Manticore different from the many other missile launchers in the game because it has limited ammunition. I don't see anything in the rulebook, IG Codex, and IG faq that justifies this.

Plus, picture in your mind the Manticore after a lascannon destroys one of the missiles. The other three can continue to be used? That's just....silly.

BB

[isotope99]

Agreed, the rules in the codex say it is a weapon that can be fired 4 times rather than being 4 one shot missiles like the dark eldar flyers and storm raven.

[Lord Azaghul]

It hasn't been FAQ's because there is no need for it.

Its 1 weapon, not 4, one use weapons.

Sometimes I'm amazed at the 'rules' players will make up.

[yrdetraxe]

I'd also say that the manticore only has 1 weapon with 4 Shots not the other way round.
Unfortunately I don't have anything to prove my point, only logic to back it up. :D
A "weapon destroyed" results in the Rack which holds the missiles to break thus rendering all remaining missiles unusable.

Using the DE Flyers as an example is like comparing apples to bananas as in case of the flyers you buy/exchange (up to) 4 seperate Missiles. And the Storm Raven has 4 One-Shot Blood Missiles not 1 Blood Missile that can shoot 4 times.


they can even be removed individually
I've built my Razorback with exchangeable Turret Weapons resulting in me being able to remove a single weapon (barrel) individually.
Can I than use a "weapon destroyed" to reduce my twin-linked Lascannon to be just a lascannon by removing a single barrel?
No, I can't! Bad point! ;)

[lobster-overlord]

that's where you pay the silly points for the pintle mount, the hull mount and the HK for the manticore and give it three more weapons to lose....

[thecactusman17]

OK, clearly I misunderstood the problem with the question. I went and read a Codex IG a few moments ago.

So let me see if I can clarify this: There is only one weapon system for the vehicle, and it's not even a weapon, it's just the accumulated ammo stockpile. That stockpile is called "Storm Eagle Rockets" and those rockets are used a maximum of 4 times during the game. The questions arise because Limited Ammunition as a rule has some awkward things going for it, particularly that it does not directly reference Storm Eagle Rockets, just the vehicle itself. Further, it's worth noting that because of this, there is an argument to be made that after firing a fourth rocket, the weapon cannot shoot AT ALL in following turns regardless of additional armament.

The question is REALLY "are Storm Eagle Rockets a weapon at all for the purposes of Weapon Destroyed," because the wording is a little awkward. To that I'd personally say yes, but it's worth noting that the wording is left a little ambiguous between the difference of available shots and what's firing them.

Finally, people need to lay the heck off and calm down. I answered the question based on the wording I heard in this thread and previous similar questions I've heard about this vehicle, and pointed out that this is how all the other "multi shot limited ammo" weapons work in the game.

[Jwolf]

@ thecactusman17 - "People need to lay the heck off and calm down" doesn't seem related to any effort on your part to answer the question at hand; perhaps you have confused taking devil's advocate positions with something desired by others?

The Storm Eagle Rockets are a single weapon with limited ammunition, and unrelated to the rockets on flyers. Read the vehicle description - it doesn't say "Storm Eagle Rockets (x4)", which would give some credibility to the multiple weapons claim, it simply lists the weapon once, because it is one weapon for game purposes.