What would be a good alien race

[Pendragon38]

Like the title says.do we need a new race to fight against are 40K galaxy

[hacksaw]

Orks done properly

that is all

[Pendragon38]

We need something thats new to the 40K world that plays like Dogs of War

[MaltonNecromancer]

Something aesthetically like the Daleks off "Doctor Who" - no arms, legs, or any remotely "human" features at all - something hard-edges and robotic that isn't just a WHFB race IN SPACE! (Looking at you here, Necrons).

Either that or an army made of "superheavies" - like the old Knight Companies from Epic, or the Ork Dred Mob list (which is a really fun and unique list). It would have a series of dreadnought-sized models (which either counted as light Walkers, or smaller Monstrous Creatures) making up three man "squads" for your Troops choices, and a bunch of crazily big stuff for the other options (nothing actually super-heavy; just lots of AV 13 and 14.)

The army weak point would be a total lack of fast attack; no access to Fast Vehicle, Scout or Deep Strike - the whole army has to basically "foot slog". It would be impressive as hell to look at, easy to get into because you wouldn't need many kits, and it would paint up quickly.

Plus, there are no armies like that at the moment; it would call for a very different set of strategies than Marines.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Having a Dogs-of-Waresque book with a selection of Alien units that can be mercenaried in would be great. Limit which forces they may be included in to what's appropriate. Kroot, Harlequins, Eldar Pathfinders, those salamander mercenaries, Tallarian Dog Soldiers, a pack of generic xenos hunting beasts. Then, take the chance to explore some weirder visuals - maybe something like an octopus with humanoid arms rather than tentacles, a lovecraftish psychic being, ancient magitech golems, weird stuff like that.

Beyond that, maybe grant each mercenary faction a simple HQ that makes that particular faction troops, to allow for themed armies. Perhaps give each the option to purchase Ded. Transports from the 'partner' codex to make these armies a bit more viable.

[Grailkeeper]

H'Rud.

[Lockark]

Having a Dogs-of-Waresque book with a selection of Alien units that can be mercenaried in would be great. Limit which forces they may be included in to what's appropriate. Kroot, Harlequins, Eldar Pathfinders, those salamander mercenaries, Tallarian Dog Soldiers, a pack of generic xenos hunting beasts. Then, take the chance to explore some weirder visuals - maybe something like an octopus with humanoid arms rather than tentacles, a lovecraftish psychic being, ancient magitech golems, weird stuff like that.

Beyond that, maybe grant each mercenary faction a simple HQ that makes that particular faction troops, to allow for themed armies. Perhaps give each the option to purchase Ded. Transports from the 'partner' codex to make these armies a bit more viable.

It's kinda funny. Alot of people want to see the Tau have a more expansive alien cosmopolitan feel to them. Lots of different co-opted and mercenary races working in and with the Tau Empire.

Taking that idea and making it into a dogs of war style book would be awesome.

Thow when it comes down to it and would be kinda funny since fluff wise and loyalst SM chapter would never hire mercs. Like chaos I could see. But loyalists? never.
XD

Only reason I don't think they would do it.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Thow when it comes down to it and would be kinda funny since fluff wise and loyalst SM chapter would never hire mercs. Like chaos I could see. But loyalists? never.
XD
Yeah, they're a problem, but; although they'd never hire mercenaries, they've shown no compunction against fighting alongside the less offensive Xenos (Harlequins, Pathfinders). The allies could also represent other things; a Salamanders army could take a pack of Xenos beasts to represent the Nocturne Drakes. There could also be a generic human unit that could represent many things; Gue'vesa for the Tau, enslaved cultists for the Necrons, or human Serfs for the Space Marines. There're plenty of ways the Space Chapters could get good mileage out've such a book.

[Pendragon38]

Having a Dogs-of-Waresque book with a selection of Alien units that can be mercenaried in would be great. Limit which forces they may be included in to what's appropriate. Kroot, Harlequins, Eldar Pathfinders, those salamander mercenaries, Tallarian Dog Soldiers, a pack of generic xenos hunting beasts. Then, take the chance to explore some weirder visuals - maybe something like an octopus with humanoid arms rather than tentacles, a lovecraftish psychic being, ancient magitech golems, weird stuff like that. Beyond that, maybe grant each mercenary faction a simple HQ that makes that particular faction troops, to allow for themed armies. Perhaps give each the option to purchase Ded. Transports from the 'partner' codex to make these armies a bit more viable.. This is what im looking for. Like beastmen,hurd or maybe something meaner or worst would be cool.

[Wildcard]

I am not sure how it would work out in the end but, here it goes:

- Big brutes, with no great love for vehicles / anything that has armor(value) because their societies have lived and died for centuries / millenia only on rim world space fortresses / underground bases where has been no need for tanks/planes etc.
- Fluff wise, they could have found a way to work a webway gate on their homeworld (to make it possible for them to pop out on the battlefields...
- ...Or they could be the brutish guardians left behind by old ones to guard some rare and powerfull stuff (kinda similar to black fortresses in power / rarity)
- Could have emerged now with old foe Necrons waking up in full?
- Not too smart, but utterly loyal to the cause
- Possibly knowledge for basic genetic manipulation and tech hardwiring into their bodies (done at the old ones bases they are guarding secrets)

Now, some of the ideas how they would work on TT to help to create the image :)

- Something similar to ogryn size force (not wanting to be too similar to ogre kindoms in FB though.. Although i do not know anything of their rules, all ive seen is the pictures..)
- Many wounds per model (even on basic troops)
- high str / toughness + rending, but no power weapons or fists etc on majority of the forces
- WS & BS low by default, but can get 2 different level upgrades per skill, so that you can have low cost meatshields, medium or high skill shooters or close combat specialists (or if you take every upgrade, you get super expensive, super effective unit.
- Couple of different monstrous creatures and the ability to gear them for many situations (Wings/jump pack, horde control weaponry, anti tank weaponry, artillery etc..) All choices would require a certain slot (head, back, left/right hand, and so on..) and you could mount different options to only certain slots (say, if heavy artillery would require 'back' slot, then you couldn't take wings/jump pack).

Completely new type of weaponry that would require new special rules for them (lot like necrons got never before seen / unique to them- stuff)
-Like ability to fire 2 'light' weapons or 1 'heavy' weapon in a turn (because of every units massive physique, probably needing an upgrade that comes available with tier 1 (or tier 2) BS upgrade

- Completely new form of transport (afaik):
-- Flying units: Multi purpose squad: each member of squad can carry one model of *your basic troops size* (would work as a transport capacity - obviously).. Lose one to shooting, and you lose both the carrier and the carried..
-- Walking MCs: sort of open topped, when shooting at 'carrier mc', shots of 6 wound passengers, but they get cover save equal of their armor.


I know that this kind of stuff would be rather hard to handle (atleast for starters), but it could open up a new door for unwarded fluff, and bring something not yet seen stuff on the TT-scene :)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

- ...Or they could be the brutish guardians left behind by old ones to guard some rare and powerfull stuff (kinda similar to black fortresses in power / rarity)

Hmm, that'd be a perfect fit for the 'magitech golem' archetype I was thinking of, and it'd work for any faction since from the blackstone fortresses we know that the tech of the old ones can be subverted and controlled. Might do something with this.

[Pendragon38]

Hmm, that'd be a perfect fit for the 'magitech golem' archetype I was thinking of, and it'd work for any faction since from the blackstone fortresses we know that the tech of the old ones can be subverted and controlled. Might do something with this. Like the COGS from AT-43 or a race worst than the C'tan and the Old Ones that could be useing the nids to probe the 40k galaxy for weakness would be cool too. Just a thought

[fuzzbuket]

3 legs hunched body 3 eyes 3 arms, faint yellow skintone soely wields heat lance type weapons and laser machine pistols (aka tiny lascannon gatling guns)

there ya go :L

[SotonShades]

I like Wildcard's idea, although as he pointed out people could just point to them being SciFi Ogres. How about something Avian?

Essentially jump troop army. No vehicles, but maybe flying/jump troop monsterous creatures that can be used as transports (similar to the Ork Squiggoth). Heavilly focussed on Fast Attack, maybe as fragile as Eldar/DE (possibly slightly less so), no heavy weapons (using monsterous birds to rip apart vehicles). Maybe even make them smaller than other models, say somewhere between a Gretchin and a Human, plus a flight stand) and give them some sort of flocking behavior, so easy enought to kill them/make them run away, but fleeing flocks can join others if they get close enough.

Of course GW would never do this. Can you imagine sculpting all those feathers? Also, not really sure how you have leader birds, other than perhaps having different species...

[Slug]

Wildcard, not to be obnoxious, but you could make much of that using Nids, Warriors for troops, fex's and other such big gribblies, gargoyles as well. Not an effective build but a similar play style.

Same with an all jump, correct me if I am wrong but can't BA do that? otherwise it would still be like a crysis suit army. Though I guess a fast army with heavy combat units is a bit different though it makes it very hard on shooting armies, but then you can already get too many units in combat too early if you ask me.

By now most major playstyles have been formed into an army with a fair bit of overlap between different armies so actually coming up with something unique is quite difficult in terms of how they play.

Asthetics are something completely different, you could easily come up with new ones, a reptilian type race would be an example. We still need our lizardmen in space.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I have several I'm sculpting (or converting) up slowly as a side-project.

Barghesi -
Basicly these guys are a mix between HP lovecraft's Shoggoths and Tanks. Massive tank-like masses of flesh, eyes, tentacles, mouths but with organic turrets fitted on them. Got sketches, eventually want to do them as a full-plastic kit that makes about six different types.

Flying Polyps -
Because 40k needs Flying polyps. Nuff said. Got these converted up from RAFM polyps and spare chaos daemon and tyranid bits.

Dakatsu -
Extra-dimensional race of skull-wraiths, heavily inspired by M.R. James and Japanese mythology. Got the first sculpt in WIP so far.

an Unnamed Old Ones faction -
While most old ones left, regressed or were destroyed - this minor race stayed behind, they were the cruelest and most merciless - the other Old ones rarely liked involving them because of how extreme they could be. Aesthetically they are similar to the Vorlons from babylon5. While the other Old One races treated their creations like the Eldar/Orks/Hrud ect with some dignity or at least respect - these ones treated their creations as nothing more than tools. I have the HQ sculpt done. Now the Necrons are waking up en-masse - these guys are wanting to get some revenge and don't really care who they use or who gets in their way.


Ulumeathi -
You can find them on here, Weird root-like/lovecraftian aliens with a nightmarish useage of chains.

Enslavers -
As above, you van find them on here or google.

[jorz192]

What the 40k universe needed was the elements of the Tau but rather than have them be weird grey alien creatures have them be humans seperate from the imperium that are willing to work with other really crazy alien races.

[Jambo]

i like the idea of the old ones, would be cool cause of the new necron fluff and they would work into the 40k story very well.

[Demonus]

WHFB race IN SPACE! (Looking at you here, Necrons).

Looking at you Orks...i mean Eldar...I mean Squats...I mean Chaos Daemons...

and Necrons were out before Tomb Kings :)

[Lockark]

What the 40k universe needed was the elements of the Tau but rather than have them be weird grey alien creatures have them be humans seperate from the imperium that are willing to work with other really crazy alien races.

Problem is that it would go ageist the theams for 40k. The whole idea is well the empire is fairly "evil", thows that reject the empire eventually find them selves corrupted by chaos.

=/

Basically it's about a pessimistic view of humanity, not a optimistic.

[wittdooley]

Blah. Keep Cthulu out of 40k.

I really must be one of the few "gamey" people that hates Cthulu. Just not a fan.

My worry about any kind of "golem" based army is that it will QUICKLY become far too steampunky. Doesn't really have a place in 40k IMO.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Blah. Keep Cthulu out of 40k.

I really must be one of the few "gamey" people that hates Cthulu. Just not a fan.

I don't think any of us folk who make lovecraftian inspired armies are going to force you to play us! so you're pretty safe there! I also don't carry a gun with me either, so no worry about me forcing you to fight my Ulumeathic League at gunpoint either ;) besides there are HP Lovecraft influences in Chaos, Tyranids and a whole slew of the minor races, and some of these influences have been there since Rogue Trader - so technically your hated fictional character Cthulhu is already in there. :confused:

I sure hope you arent going to go on a crusade to destroy the Tzeentch Flamer moulds, they are some of my favourites and I'd like to buy some more soon. ;)


My worry about any kind of "golem" based army is that it will QUICKLY become far too steampunky. Doesn't really have a place in 40k IMO.

I'm not sure why you'd think Golems suddenly equal steampunk? How did you come to that conclusion? They are just animated beings made from inanimate matter. I don't think the Jews were thinking about steam powered machines when they were writing their folklore! :eek:

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Blah. Keep Cthulu out of 40k.

I really must be one of the few "gamey" people that hates Cthulu. Just not a fan.

My worry about any kind of "golem" based army is that it will QUICKLY become far too steampunky. Doesn't really have a place in 40k IMO.
Eh, one of the beauties of 40k (to me, at least) is the sheer variety of visual themes that can coexist within it. Even Blood Angels and Space Wolves clash heavily thematically, nevermind comparing Space Marines to the zany/cartoonish Orkish stuff, the WWII-looking DKoK and the giger-ish 'Nids. If there were ever to be a new army/race, I'd love to see 'em explore a heavily divergent visual style.

[wittdooley]

I'm not sure why you'd think Golems suddenly equal steampunk? How did you come to that conclusion? They are just animated beings made from inanimate matter. I don't think the Jews were thinking about steam powered machines when they were writing their folklore! :eek:

I didn't say that they would have to, but it would be my worry that they'd either move in that direction, or automatically be Steampunky. I guess the first thing I think of when I think of big golems is either the Golden Army from Hellboy 2 or the ones from Confrontation.

My connection there is very similiar to the connection one may have with Tau and Anime. Not saying it has to exist, but there's already a basis for it simply in shape and form.

You're right about Lovecraft existing in 40k already, of course, what with Ymarlg Genestealers, Tentacly slanneesh and whatnot. I'd just personally prefer that a new race isn't introduced further incorporating any of those Lovecraftian notions in the game. Now, playing against a Lovecraft inspired army I'd have no problem with; I just dont want too much of it becoming canon, is all. So to clarify, dont mind the look or converted armies, etc, just dont want the themes too much more in the 40k Universe. :)

[Lord Azaghul]

A good alien race...
how about a 3 fingered bug eyed critter, no nose, a small mouth...often seen in blurry photo graphs and credited with flying round saucer shaped space craft

[CrimsonTurkey]

Exodite Eldar.

All I want is Eldar ridding dinosaurs. Is that too much to ask?

[Lockark]

Blah. Keep Cthulu out of 40k.

I really must be one of the few "gamey" people that hates Cthulu. Just not a fan.

My worry about any kind of "golem" based army is that it will QUICKLY become far too steampunky. Doesn't really have a place in 40k IMO.

Chaos is fairly Lovecraftiean in all honesty. Cruel gods we can not comprehend, Chaos spawn, mutations, ect.

I like the fact most things in 40k are inspired from multiple sources to make their own original idea. Alot of times you can pick out the different individual inspirations. But it's the combination that makes it more then just a simple rip off.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I like the fact most things in 40k are inspired from multiple sources to make their own original idea. Alot of times you can pick out the different individual inspirations. But it's the combination that makes it more then just a simple rip off.

Pretty much. 40k rips off all the iconic sci-fi and fantasy stuff - from your favourite movies and books, but the reason it works is because it does it with style. It's probably the reason it has such a mass-appeal and why 40k is the #1 sci-fi wargame out there. It's a setting where terminators, starship troopers, dune imperium and HR giger's aliens can all co-exist unpeacefully.

[gendoikari87]

Know what we need before another xenos race? Codex: adeptus mechanicus.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Know what we need before another xenos race? Codex: adeptus mechanicus.Fluffwise, Mechanicus has several interesting, intriguing units. The problem is they also have a bucketful of Guard-but-slightly-better. Plus, the game's already overflowing with Imperial Codexes.

Still, similarity shouldn't make 'em a no-go - the Mechanicus could be including as a fun option in a revision of Imperial Guard! Add a Magos HQ, some Servitor units, Electro Priests, weird tanks and an Elites Skitarri unit which the Magos turns into Troops and Knight Titans as a Heavy Support unit! After all, the Mechanicus can field everything available to the Imp Guard and more, and it's reasonably common for them to work alongside the Imperial Guard (Enginseers, for instance) - sounds like a good match.

This would leave an opening for a Xenos codex full of never-before-seen stuff rather than a 'dex full of slightly upgraded Imperium things.

[CrimsonTurkey]

I feel like ad mech would end up being Guard with more units, which would mean we would stop seeing guard at all. Perhaps that one is better left for forge world.

[gendoikari87]

Similarity my ***, tech guard are some of the most varied troops in the universe, from guardsmen to hulking genebulked servitors to guardsmen in terminator armor..

and that's not even touching secutors, warrior techpriests who devote themselves to battle.(okay so they'd pretty much be MEQ's but interesting MEQ's with better equipment)

In fact I believe if they ever do an adeptus mechanicus army, they should focus around the warrior techpriests. Because otherwise you just have Codex: tech-guard.

[eldargal]

I'd rather see AdMech left to FW, the last thing the GW studio needs is another Imperium codex. The imbalance is huge enough already.

[Lockark]

Ad:Mec could be a great addition to the game. It would be a imperial book that is easily quicky enough to distinguish them selves from Space Mariens and IG.

In all honesty I think the concern would be how to distinguish their play style from Tau!

-Ad mec would be elite-ish guards men who would have better guns, Armour, and equipment. (Tau fire warriors?)

-They would have elite troops in heavy power armored troops backing them up. (Crisis suits?)

-They would reliy on their warmachines to smash their opponents. (Need I say more?)


The only catch thow. If Ad Mec did became a full on army, they NEED to consolidate some of the space marine books. As said. To many imperial Armies as is.
=/

[gendoikari87]

dark angels is a prime candidate for folding into the space marine codex, as is bloodangels, black templar, space wolves might be a bit of a sacriligious stretch, I don't think the space wolves would very much like that, and you wouldn't like the space wolves when they're angry.

[doom-kitten]

Personally I think the current armies should be fixed long before anyone even plans a new army and the ranges updated as well theres just are much money to be made finishing what they've started as there would be in starting another to be half finished job.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Similarity my ***, tech guard are some of the most varied troops in the universe
Most varied human troops in the universe - an Imperial variant army couldn't really manage the same degree of 'newness' another xenos 'dex could. (Plus, so many Imp. 'dexes.) Also, keep in mind that the Grey Knights already offer a wonderful opportunity for counts-as Adeptus Mech. through Coteaz lists.

But yeah, the selection of codices is starting to get kinda bloated - I'd much rather see a return to army lists with inbuilt variants (folding the Space Marines together - the two Angels would be easy, the Templars and Wolves difficult, but doable). Either that or simply return to .pdf/white dwarf lists which build off've standard Space Marines (after all, the Chapters all share near-identical vehicle pools).

[Necron2.0]

This game desperately needs space-dwarves!! Oh, wait ....*

==================

Actually, I'd like to see an army that completely breaks the rules. How about something like this:

Xenos: Borg/Space-Zombies/Star-Vampires/Scientologists (whatever you want to call them)

1: To start, the army's main troop "choice" cannot be fielded. Rather, certain units of the army have the ability to raise/convert casualties they inflict into the troop choice on the spot.

2: Elite choices then become the requisite unit when a rule specifies a troop choice be fielded (although these are still not scoring units).

3: The majority of the army's "collector" units have infiltrate.

4: The core units of the army (elites, fast attack, HQ and heavy support) are fairly resilient (and proportionately expensive) but the converted troops are somewhat crunchy.

5: In the majority, fast attack units would be weak in both ranged and close combat, but come either resilient enough or in large enough numbers to survive a couple rounds of combat without running away (they are there to anchor a unit until the "collectors" arrive).

6: Heavy support units would have devastating anti-armor capability. Whether or not his translates into a correspondingly devastating anti-personnel capacity is a matter for debate. Ultimately the army wouldn't want to kill troops directly, but providing a risk factor for killing off units before they can be converted adds an interesting game-play element.

[Necron2.0]

<*crickets*>

YES!! I've killed the thread!!! Necron2.0, Thread-Slayer!! :D

Actually, I wanted to addend item 4 from my previous post. I'd have the composition of the "collector" units (post-collection) be a bit like the BT initiate/novice units. The "collected" don't become a separate unit of their own until their numbers exceed that of the collectors (at which point they must split off in the player's next movement phase). Of course, that means the unit as a whole won't be a scoring unit until either the collected split off, or all the collectors are dead. Makes taking casualties an interesting, torturous decision, don't it? ;)

[Joebot]

something that isn't just a WHFB race IN SPACE! (Looking at you here, Necrons).

Well said. I like Newcons and all but yeah they are Tomb Kings.

[Joebot]

I'd rather see AdMech left to FW, the last thing the GW studio needs is another Imperium codex. The imbalance is huge enough already.

No way... there needs to be 1 BILLION Imperial codices.

I'm most excited to see what happens when there are three different Chaos themed Codices.

I like the idea of a large and lumbering army similar to Ogre Kingdoms (that isn't just a sci-fi version of of them)

[Thornblood]

I would like a FW book based on Gryphon IV. With a list for the Knights of Griffonne- a mechanicus heavy marine chapter, skitarii- The standing army like elite guard, and somewhere in between so that both previous armies can use them- the legio cybernetica's robots. Obviously the nids would be he antagonists in the book as Gryphon IV was destroyed by Leviathan

As for aliens I think the Trexian Trade Empire would be good to expand upon, which include the nicassar Loxatl and Boriac races. But really they are too much like the Tau.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Actually, I'd like to see an army that completely breaks the rules. How about something like this:
Yeah, spawned/converted troops such as that could be interested.

I've always wanted to see the Pink Horrors split into Blue Horrors again - it'd be interesting to play, starting out with a great shooty unit then moving on to a small unit fit for little besides soaking up wounds and holding objectives as the casualties mount.

'Transformable' units would also be interesting, and would help dethrone Mech in that 'dexes army list - imagine a unit of nigh indestructible, husklike, slow, plodding creatures and at the beginning of their movement phase the player may choose to have 'em split open and 'birth' a terrifying spikey butterfly.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Transformable units were one of the ideas I had for my depiction of the Barghesi. There ultra-violence allows their bodies to transform into the best form able to kill the enemy - in a way similiar to John Carpenters The Thing.

[Lockark]

This game desperately needs space-dwarves!! Oh, wait ....*

Personally I'd love to see them expand upon the Demurg or how ever it's spelled.
:3

That and the Dog Soldiers getting expanded and making in-game appearances with the Tau.

The hurd are also always a fan favorite.

Realy I'd rather see them expand upon some of the minor xenos mentioned in the fluff then something completely new.


I also don't like the idea of a army that breaks the game. GW have been pain stakeingly working in both WHFB and WH40k to make sure the armies follow a standardized wording and core rules on how they function. (A project they still have a hard time doing "right")

Just to throw that out the window and make a new army that laughts in the face of that is kinda insulting, diffidently to the armies that LOST thows kind of rules.
=U

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Transformable units were one of the ideas I had for my depiction of the Barghesi. There ultra-violence allows their bodies to transform into the best form able to kill the enemy - in a way similiar to John Carpenters The Thing.Oooo, that would be a fun take on them; start off averagish, unit can select a specialized bonus every time they slay enemy models in close combat.

Realy I'd rather see them expand upon some of the minor xenos mentioned in the fluff then something completely new.True, although the existing many minor xenos' fluff is so vague they could be taken pretty much anywhere! Here's all that we know on some of the minor races:
Barghesi: Very violent. K'nib: Possibly has 10 limbs, maybe humanoid hands. Xenarch: Might have humanoid head/eyes, use lightning weapons which might be biomechanical. Nicassar: Very psychic, Tau consider them 'unsuitable' for combat deployment. Scythians: Warrior-monks who use many weapons, at least one of which is a poisoned sword, presumably have humanoid hands. Caradocians: They have wings.

There's a lot of room for expansion in all of these; the Xenarch could just turn out to be another rubber-forehead-alien species, but they could also be tentacled lampreys with creepily humanoid heads which are carried through the battlefield by 'slave-cocoons' which they burst out of when near the enemy.

I also don't like the idea of a army that breaks the game. GW have been pain stakeingly working in both WHFB and WH40k to make sure the armies follow a standardized wording and core rules on how they function. (A project they still have a hard time doing "right")

Just to throw that out the window and make a new army that laughts in the face of that is kinda insulting, diffidently to the armies that LOST thows kind of rules.
=UBeing very different from the norm wouldn't break the game as long as they were sufficiently playtested; plus, it would be a breath of fresh air to play against an army which is incompatible with concepts such as 'mech' and introduces weird things of its own (like, say, summoning pieces of terrain to the board, similar to that one WHFB item.) Which armies lost those kinda rules? I guess 'nids lost a lot of customization stuff, but that's a degree below some of the ideas brought up here (although the misbalanced points and removal of some key wargear is pretty bad for 'em). It seems a lot more like weird and wacky things are coming back to the game, not going away! (Conversion Beamers, Jokaero, a lot of the new Necron stuff and so on).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Oooo, that would be a fun take on them; start off averagish, unit can select a specialized bonus every time they slay enemy models in close combat.

Yeah, the idea would be - if they kill a space marine - they gain "we shall know no fear" to show it's absorbed the marines strengths. I sort of envisioned them as an extremely low-count "army", each model being rhino to landraider sized and only several of them in your average 1500 point force. Hopefully, oneday ill be able to finish the kit I've been working on for them - however it's extremely difficult as the general form is like a shoggoth and the pieces are intended to fit together in a huge variety of ways to represenent the amorphous forms of them. D:


True, although the existing many minor xenos' fluff is so vague they could be taken pretty much anywhere! Here's all that we know on some of the minor races: Barghesi: Very violent. K'nib: Possibly has 10 limbs, maybe humanoid hands. Xenarch: Might have humanoid head/eyes, use lightning weapons which might be biomechanical. Nicassar: Very psychic, Tau consider them 'unsuitable' for combat deployment. Scythians: Warrior-monks who use many weapons, at least one of which is a poisoned sword, presumably have humanoid hands. Caradocians: They have wings.

I think it's good theres so many races with next to nothing known bar a sentence or two. These kind of minor-xeno races fill an important niche in that they act as a Blank-slates for those of us who want to effectively come up with own stuff. I find a name and a few words can sometimes instantly generate an array of images in my head - and then ill be converting/sculpting stuff up the next minute.

On the other hand, theres some like the ones in Xenology and the FFG books id like to see/read more on as well. Shame the Deathwatch books seem to be missing the mark in terms of minor-xenos stuff as id of thought that would be the perfect place for that kind of fluff, don't you think?


but they could also be tentacled lampreys with creepily humanoid heads which are carried through the battlefield by 'slave-cocoons' which they burst out of when near the enemy.

Floaty/crawly weird cocoons as transports? I like that. You really need to start going crazy with the sculpting practice asap. You have some awesome ideas, too good to not be done. Get on it.


Being very different from the norm wouldn't break the game as long as they were sufficiently playtested; plus, it would be a breath of fresh air to play against an army which is incompatible with concepts such as 'mech' and introduces weird things of its own (like, say, summoning pieces of terrain to the board, similar to that one WHFB item.) Which armies lost those kinda rules? I guess 'nids lost a lot of customization stuff, but that's a degree below some of the ideas brought up here (although the misbalanced points and removal of some key wargear is pretty bad for 'em). It seems a lot more like weird and wacky things are coming back to the game, not going away! (Conversion Beamers, Jokaero, a lot of the new Necron stuff and so on).

Indeed, I think interesting army-wide special-rules are like it or not what is being used to differentiate armies more - the Necrons already had some, but added a few new ones like the Entropic Rules. I am all for stuff like that as long as it's balanced and fun - if stuff like that can be used to create new and interesting playstyles - then I'm all for that as well.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

And generally speaking, 40k needs more nightmarish "hidden away" horror-aliens IMO - doesnt matter if it's done by individuals through converting/counts as, fluff/artwork in FFG books or at the most a 2nd-ed necron style release with a minimum force-org and WD rules.

I like the idea that no matter where you are - somewhere there is going to be something unknown and horrible that will do unspeakable things to you and that despite the galaxy being a huge place there is nowhere to run. Nowhere. Yes we have plenty of "known" stuff, galaxy-wide threats and they absolutely have their place - but I like the little-known stuff, the things that are rarely encountered - but when you do meet them and survive, you'll never sleep easy for the rest of your life.

A good example of this is are The Slaugth. The fluff about them is truly terrifying, and they infiltrate human colonies and work in the shadows - oh and they get stoned and high when eating our brains. And they are made out of maggots. Maggot-men that want to get high off our rotting corpses. The kind of "legends" imperial guardsmen talk about around camp-fires before going off to die the next day fighting tyranids/necrons/chaos ect.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa207/embodiedscrew/40k_MinorRaces/Slaugth1-1.jpg

[Lerra]

We need something thats new to the 40K world that plays like Dogs of War
Like Kroot Mercs!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Hopefully, oneday ill be able to finish the kit I've been working on for them - however it's extremely difficult as the general form is like a shoggoth and the pieces are intended to fit together in a huge variety of ways to represenent the amorphous forms of them. D:Hmmm - mebbe if there are only going to be a couple've shoggoths in a decent sized army, maybe just make four monopose amorphous bodies for the primary variety, then one or two for others? Maybe cover 'em in maws that would also serve as connection ports for optional eyes/tentacles. Sculpting unimaginable horrors is certainly problematic :P


On the other hand, theres some like the ones in Xenology and the FFG books id like to see/read more on as well. Shame the Deathwatch books seem to be missing the mark in terms of minor-xenos stuff as id of thought that would be the perfect place for that kind of fluff, don't you think?Yeah, the minor races almost feel like the natural extension to DIY chapters - get sucked into the game by an existing chapter, make a chapter, expand a minor race etc. One thing I've noticed with the Fantasy Flight RPGs - they tend to expand the player-race (Deathwatch, Inquisition etc) while relying largely on genericish enemies. The Chaos stuff was mostly bland until Chaos was the player-faction. My hope is that they're saving up the Xenos stuff for a Xenos-focused RPG - perhaps a ragtag group of alien mercenaries in the employ of the Tau Empire.

And wow that Slaugth thing is creepy! It'd be interesting to have some updated 'wild critter' rules, like that old white dwarf thing, to represent the unaligned monstrosities kicking around the setting.


Floaty/crawly weird cocoons as transports? I like that. You really need to start going crazy with the sculpting practice asap. You have some awesome ideas, too good to not be done. Get on it.It was supposed to be a generic example of how a 'weird' race might play, but now I'm starting to like it. I'd imagine the cocoon-beasts to be like personal retainers of a sort, serving their Liege-Xenarch in various ways beyond meatshield off the battlefield (packmule and such). It'd be kinda fun to apply medieval-knight cultural-theming to a bizarre, inhuman race. Only got a week of exams left, so definitely getting to work soon (my plans for the Hrud have a lot in common with some past dabblings in chaos marine armor, so should move at a reasonable clip).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hmmm - mebbe if there are only going to be a couple've shoggoths in a decent sized army, maybe just make four monopose amorphous bodies for the primary variety, then one or two for others? Maybe cover 'em in maws that would also serve as connection ports for optional eyes/tentacles. Sculpting unimaginable horrors is certainly problematic :P

I would do that...BUT, it's intended to be the "ultimate multi-unit kit". I often give myself ridiculous sculpting/modelling challenges - this one was intended to make be an "all in one" type thing that could make HQ, Elites, Troops, Fast-Attack and Heavy Support all in the same kit. An experiment to see how far that kind of thing can go.

One idea was to have "plates", some would have mouths, others plain, others have "sockets" that would allow you to insert Eyeballs or Tentacles ect. Then there would be a few that would have larger sockets that would allow you to plug in organic-weapon turrets. The kit would also allow you to combine two together to form an even bigger one. Obviously I have NO idea if I'll accomplish that - but it's been a useful exercise in miniature designing, so ill be happy if I fail if I at least learn a few things from it.





Yeah, the minor races almost feel like the natural extension to DIY chapters - get sucked into the game by an existing chapter, make a chapter, expand a minor race etc. One thing I've noticed with the Fantasy Flight RPGs - they tend to expand the player-race (Deathwatch, Inquisition etc) while relying largely on genericish enemies. The Chaos stuff was mostly bland until Chaos was the player-faction. My hope is that they're saving up the Xenos stuff for a Xenos-focused RPG - perhaps a ragtag group of alien mercenaries in the employ of the Tau Empire.


Yeah, I've found the chaos stuff to be pretty boring. I have to admit I was rather irritate Chaos was even in the Deathwatch books - it felt like a waste to me. Whats the point in having specialised space marines if they are going to just do what all the others do anyway? They should of replaced the chaos stuff with minor-xeno stuff. I'd of liked scenarios where they clean out a Hrud infestation, or if they want to use the Warp they could go "ghostbusters" on some weird astral-spectres or enslaver stuff.

A Xenos FFG book? that would make me froth at the mouth for sure. I'll hope you are right with that. It's certainly got a lot of potential. I expect if you asked people a few years ago if Chaos would get their own RPG - many wouldnt of thought so, so it's not something I'd call impossible.



And wow that Slaugth thing is creepy! It'd be interesting to have some updated 'wild critter' rules, like that old white dwarf thing, to represent the unaligned monstrosities kicking around the setting.

Yeah, I love the Slaugth - and luckily theres quite a few pieces of artwork of them too. I wouldnt mind trying to sculpt them - but doing all those tiny maggots in 28mm scale has put me right off :D they also have a variety of "Vassal Constructs" like this to make up for their lack of number, like this Warrior version :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jUZiBzt5Rkc/Tgx__C9bP5I/AAAAAAAAB5k/8eG_6GhBnZI/s400/Slaugth_WarriorVassalConstruct.jpg
I'm sure it just wants to give you a cuddle and not rip you to pieces. Yeah. Totally.




It was supposed to be a generic example of how a 'weird' race might play, but now I'm starting to like it. I'd imagine the cocoon-beasts to be like personal retainers of a sort, serving their Liege-Xenarch in various ways beyond meatshield off the battlefield (packmule and such). It'd be kinda fun to apply medieval-knight cultural-theming to a bizarre, inhuman race. Only got a week of exams left, so definitely getting to work soon (my plans for the Hrud have a lot in common with some past dabblings in chaos marine armor, so should move at a reasonable clip).

Well, I dig the Cocoon idea a lot. Theres a lot of potential for weird transports that are organic. I felt the Tyranid Drop-pod was kind of boring and didn't really exercise any imagination beyond making a space marine drop-pod "squishy".

Perhaps the creatures inside the Cocoons could be extremely physically weak as well? It could be an interesting playing niche where the weak-aliens and cocoon-beasts have to work together. So you got the Transport-drone idea and personal-retainers ideas..so theres a few units already....

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I would do that...BUT, it's intended to be the "ultimate multi-unit kit". I often give myself ridiculous sculpting/modelling challenges...Well, good luck! Sounds like it'll be quite a challenge, but if you win it'll be one hell of a kit.


Yeah, I love the Slaugth - and luckily theres quite a few pieces of artwork of them too. I wouldnt mind trying to sculpt them - but doing all those tiny maggots in 28mm scale has put me right off :D they also have a variety of "Vassal Constructs" like this to make up for their lack of number, like this Warrior version :Hmmm, a few terrifying maggot-men leading an army of freakish constructs - they're practically begging to be a counts-as Dark Eldar Haemonculous army! That's pretty tempting, they're a good fit.


Well, I dig the Cocoon idea a lot. Theres a lot of potential for weird transports that are organic. I felt the Tyranid Drop-pod was kind of boring and didn't really exercise any imagination beyond making a space marine drop-pod "squishy".

Perhaps the creatures inside the Cocoons could be extremely physically weak as well? It could be an interesting playing niche where the weak-aliens and cocoon-beasts have to work together. So you got the Transport-drone idea and personal-retainers ideas..so theres a few units already....The 'nid Spore just didn't feel right, so many 'good' things piled on to it but then crippled in other ways? I'd've rather seen a Transport Spore with no weaponry/combat ability, maybe a synapse aura, that's it, and a Heavy Support Spore with all the weapon options they shoehorned in (albeit improved to actually utilize 'em).

Yeah, I was thinking that the Xenarch would be very reliant on the Cocoons due to their frailty - the Cocoons are incredibly tough but have little offensive ability, the Xenarch are glass cannons. Hmmm; species concept:

Homeworld: Xen, tumultuous gas giant, large chunks of matter floating in mid-atmosphere.
Xenarch: Hagfishesque betentacled aliens, incredibly ancient, predate the 'emotional races', which they're somewhat mystified by. Capable of rapid limited flight, each can channel some form of energy from its homeworld (Lightning being the most common, followed by fiery Xenarch and those commanding acidic mist), using these abilities in close combat. This is referred to as their 'bias'. Their 'weapons' are not weapons so much as 'conductors', which allow them to use their innate abilities at greater ranges (and thus a conductor's ability depends on the energy channeled by the Xenarch wielding it).

Khrusos: Subservient tough, fleshy species, employed/enslaved entirely by the Xenarch. Probably visually similar to Halo's Huragok (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091126212126/halo/images/e/e9/Engineer_character-evolution_4-of-4.jpg). They can fly slowly, but near-indefinitely, as opposed to the easily spent Xenarch. They possess a large hollow in their body, similar in some ways to a Kangaroo's pouch - the Xenarch place themselves in these hollows to shield themselves in battle, violently bursting from the Khrusos when near the enemy. The Khrusos typically survive this, and it falls on them to repair the 'wound' to their pouch. A Khrusos will grow indefinitely as long as it has access to sufficient food - maintaining the correct food supply to keep it locked in their current size is very important. Titanic Khrusos might serve as Xenarch cities/spacecraft. However, at larger sizes Khrusos minds learn more rapidly and effectively, increasing risk of rebellion. On the largest specimens Xenarch oft resort to crude lobotomization to prevent this. Such measures are only temporary and risky, and so the amount of large Khrusos is strictly limited.

Army structure:
HQ: Xenarch leader, can be of any bias, primarily shooty unit. Access to 'thoroughbred Khrusos', which has some perks (increased speed?)
Elites: Xenarch nobles: Can be a mix of bias, mix of decent shooty options and choppy options. Access to personal Khrusos, each noble transported in their own, personal retainer-Khrusos.
Troops: Xenarch Squires: Xenarch Noble leading its Squire siblings (the 'runts' of the litter, effectively), must all be of same breed. Transported in single large Khrusos.
Heavy Support: Massive Khrusos, with large 'conductors' mounted on it that embarked Xenarch can fire? That the weapons only respond to a Xenarch firer means that the Khrusos itself is still effectively unarmed.