IG Valkyrie or Chimera?

[Panxer]

Ok, tactics question. I'm relatively new to the Imperial guard (I'm a closet Tau player) <ACKEM!> So! for you IG generals out there which would you recommend for a transport, Chimera or Valkyrie?

This is what I've come up with and maybe you can help me out with this...

1. Valkyrie: Pro- better side armor, twinlinked las cannons and missile pods, deep strike, skimmer, fast, heavy bolter sponsons.
Con- more expensive points wise, $52 a model, pain to lug around without paying another $30 in precut foam.

2. Chimera: Pro- less expensive points wise, $28 a model, easier to carry around, easier to paint and assemble
Con- Not a fast vehicle, can only fire las shots and heavy bolter shots, has 10 side and back armor, can't move 24" flat out, fly, or land on terrain.

These are what I'm dealing with in regards to tactics and building my army up. Please let me know if you have any comparative tactical and building advice.

Danke.

[DarkLink]

Mostly chimera, but a couple of vendetta are probably never a bad thing.

[Nungunz]

Chimeras(4-8 in an army) with Vendettas/Valks (2-3) as fire support.

[w7west]

Use the one that lets you turbo boost your bs4 melta troops in the scout phase and then drop them anywhere you please on turn one, while still flying around dropping large blast templates.

fvcking imp guard...

[Brymm]

Vendettas. Blow up armor all game before dropping their squads on objectives on turn 5. Tough to argue with at such low points.

[Alex4AJM3]

in a 1500 army, 3 chimeras with some heavy support and a vendetta should suit your needs. Once you start getting up to 2000 points, you should consider adding some more vendettas, and more infantry before you expand you chimera count, unless you're going for a fully mechanized army.

[Kaiserdean]

I don't know if this will influence your decision...

At 'Ard Boyz last year, all of the winning IG armies in local and regional rounds had at least three Valkyries/Vendettas. I've added them to my IG list (which didn't fare well at regionals) and I've had a big improvement in my win/losses.

[WereWolf_nr]

Chimeras(4-8 in an army) with Vendettas/Valks (2-3) as fire support.

This.
...10

[sverigesson]

Chimeras are great, but lets be honest, Vendettas are amazing. Everything everybody says about them? All pretty much true. They are just that good.

[Soss]

As a player who faces off against IG a lot. I think valykre/vendetta are more of an asset to my opponent. They can move across the board so much better that it really changes my tactics in order to deal with them. They are contstantly contesting at the end of games just because they can go flat out with a cover save, very hard to kill at that point. You don't need a lot of them.

[ozybonza]

Not counting price or logistics, Valks/Vendettas all the way. Your point about the foam etc is valid, personally I just put them in boxes, valks are too big and awkward to be worth getting foam for.

[Celiberus]

Vendetta is a great model with lots of fire power .
The chimera is cheaper but also has lles fire power . But the chimera will stay a life mutch longer cause its easy to hide .

[Eyespy]

It depends on the rest of your army. I only bring one Chimera, but I never leave home without two Vendettas, they're just too good, no matter the points level.


My 500 point list is:

CCS 4x Plasmagun
Veterans Squad, 3x Melta, Demolitions
Vendetta.
Vendetta.

[Dorsai]

I can say that as a Guard player I rarely take chimeras. I use them only when I want a specific unit to get across the field into combat, like Straken with his command squad. Otherwise, I love my two Vendettas. Put a squad of melta vets in one and let it outflank. When it comes in, it can shoot at a vehicle on the opposite end of the table getting side or rear armor. The vets hop out and can then melta a close vehicle or grab an objective. Opponents tend to worry about their back line if they know something like that could be coming in.

The range, strength, and AP of the shots also scare some people with termies and such. Knowing that they will be forced to take their invulns on three termies facing instant death tends to make them try to hide if they can't get in range to kill it. And if they are worried about the Vendetta getting line of sight, then they aren't advancing as quick on you.

My Vendettas are also my primary anti-armor. With the three twin-linked shots I am far more likely to do some damage to a vehicle than any tank or melta vets I may have. It may only be BS3, but it still hits more often than it misses.

In my experience, chimeras are just too fragile. If a Guard sergant with a PF can hurt a chimera easily, then it is very weak. Yes the fire points are nice, but I can't buy them for the units I'd like too, namely my heavy weapon squads. Just being in a transport on an objective being able to fire my AC or lascannons out of the back would be nice. But instead I have buy them for other squads then waste a round of moving and shooting getting them inside the chimera.

So given the choice, I always go for the vendetta, preferably two, soon to be three.

[Eyespy]

My Vendettas are also my primary anti-armor. With the three twin-linked shots I am far more likely to do some damage to a vehicle than any tank or melta vets I may have. It may only be BS3, but it still hits more often than it misses.

Too true. There are those games when you get lucky and kill all of your enemy's long range anti-tank in the first turn. If that happens, the win is just a matter of time.

[Turner]

Based only on a tactical stand point, it depends what you're plan is. (BOO! Give us an answer!)


Seriously, looking at that thing from a points stand point you get 2xchimeras for the cost of 1 Valk (slightly less, but if it's the Vendetta then slightly more) so right there you've already doubled the life span. Even if the enemy somehow has a weapon that doesn't require LOS, ignore's cover, is str 10, ap1, rolls 2d6 and takes the highest and hits your chimera and rolls a 6 on the damage chart you still have a second chimera... with another squad inside doing whatever. If you have a Valk/Vendetta, you're out of luck, that's it, no more, end of story. Well not really end of story, but those guys are taking a pinning check, moral possibly, but none the less foot slogging it the rest of the way.

The 24" move for the Valk/Vendetta I'll give that to you, waaaaaaaaaay better than the 12" a chimera can put out, plus that 4+ cover save Valk/Vendets get for moving that fast is pretty good. Notice it's pretty good. Look at your average table. It's totally possible if played right for you to move your chimera 12" and claim a cover save due to the "True LOS" nature. If not from the terrain on the board from your own chimeras! like that second one you just happen to have because you get two, count em, two for the price of one valk/vendet. Drive that first chimera up 12", pop smoke. Drive that second Chimera up behind it but slightly to one side or the other and WHAM, you are claiming cover from the first one, without popping smoke. Next turn just flip the chimeras in the movement phase and have the second one pop smoke. (or just go off and have them do their thing.) Sure you'll lose a little movement from one chimera passing the other but you'll be claiming cover in the wide open plains of tableland.

Speaking of trying to claim cover, Chimeras a low riders, compared to the Valk/Vendet that is. I mean look at that bird. It's on a flight stand and it's massive. I mean massive. Just see more that 50% of that thing and no cover. (unless you moved flat out) But for a chimera those guys are hugging the ground and you can find cover much easier.


Now this seems like it's a giant wall of text supporting the chimera over the valk/vendet, well it's not. It all depends on what you're doing.

The Vendetta, three, twinlinked, lascannons. THREE! That right there will mess people up. I mean, three lascannons is awesome. I love heavy weapon teams. But three twinlinked? Jawsome! Plus don't forget you can move 6" with a Vendetta and still fire ALLLLLL it's weapons. All of them. But it only has three twinlinked lascannons... Sure, if you don't pay for the heavy bolters. Throw those things on there. If there's no vehicles on the board (or if you're shooting at AV11 or lower) then start blasting guys! Long fangs? Terminators? Some giant bug thing? Well not only are you throwing three (I still can't get over that, THREE!) twinlinked lascannons at whatever but also six heavy bolter rounds at them. Hey terminators, I know you have to make like two or three invul saves but could you also make like two to three (possibly more if your rolling good) regular armour saves too? Sure it's a long shot, but sometimes people roll 1's and terminators go down, or that giant bug thing bites it, or Long fangs not only fail their armour save but cover save too. The heavy bolters on a vendetta is the definition of how IG plays. More bullets? Better! The shear volume of fire a single vendetta with heavy bolters puts out is awesome.

How about that Valk? Multirocket pods! That thing will be flying up the enemy's line so fast it won't even be funny. Go ahead, move 12" EVERY turn (or 24" to get that cover save) and fly Riiiiiiight next to the enemy, I'm talking 1" away, also fire your multilaser and BOTH multi rocket pods (That's three shots at Str6 AP 6 and two large blasts! Str4 AP6) Again, the shear volume of fire this thing puts out eats through horde armies like nobodies business. And if you get assaulted (because you're 1" away) they'll need 6's to hit you! Maybe you move 12" up and drop out your cargo... maybe your cargo is a special weapons team with three demo charges, and maybe you just happen to be next to an Ork Horde, Blood Angle Super HQ squad, IG 50man Blob, Necron whatevermessedupthingtheyhave, 'Nid baby bug factory (that thing just looks super creepy) or a Tau... or a pack of Space Mariner Hammernators.

Anyways, both serve different purposes and have strengths/weakness. It comes down to your play style and ultimately your plan. (Yeah, carrying the Valk/Vendet is insane without those special carrying cases. I've dropped one of my two at least 3 times and shattered it only to reglue it... again and again, and then knock it off the table, and seriously this thing is probably more glue than plastic at this point.)


Personally, I like chimeras better. I have like 11 of them (I want to get enough where I can have a "wall" of chimeras that goes from board edge to board edge for the shear "comedic effect") But I do have two Valk/Vendet. Ok I have one Vendetta and one Valk/Vendet because it has magnets.

[Grenadier]

I just have a single Valkyrie originally bought to give me a faster transport than the Chimera. And it is. You can fly over things whereas the Chimera has to go around them. And while it has better armament I found the rocket pods to be pretty lousy.

But I prefer the Chimera. Here's why: The Valkryie is a sitting duck. Only mitigated by moving fast thus getting that cover save. The enemy will always have line of sight on it. And it'll draw a lot of fire. I think in terms of points being spent on something to transport your troops the Chimera is a better choice than the Valkrie. Primarily because you are less of a visible target and can use terrain to help cover your approach. Plus it can haul Ogryns. The Chimera itself can't match a Valkyrie's firepower. But it makes up for it by being a more reliable transport.

I think a Valkyrie is better used as a vehicle killer. Three twin linked lascannons are not bad. Still, it's pricy for being a tank hunter. And it's still going to be a highly visible target.

As it is, in my army I have but one Valkyrie and have found it to be utterly worthless. Especially since I have plenty of other ways to kill tanks.


Ok, tactics question. I'm relatively new to the Imperial guard (I'm a closet Tau player) <ACKEM!> So! for you IG generals out there which would you recommend for a transport, Chimera or Valkyrie?

This is what I've come up with and maybe you can help me out with this...

1. Valkyrie: Pro- better side armor, twinlinked las cannons and missile pods, deep strike, skimmer, fast, heavy bolter sponsons.
Con- more expensive points wise, $52 a model, pain to lug around without paying another $30 in precut foam.

2. Chimera: Pro- less expensive points wise, $28 a model, easier to carry around, easier to paint and assemble
Con- Not a fast vehicle, can only fire las shots and heavy bolter shots, has 10 side and back armor, can't move 24" flat out, fly, or land on terrain.

These are what I'm dealing with in regards to tactics and building my army up. Please let me know if you have any comparative tactical and building advice.

Danke.

[Forrix]

your kind of comparing apples and oranges you will probable end up playing mostly chimera with a few valks thrown in for speed. They both fulfill very different purposes and so they don't necessarily compete with each other. However you are right the valk is expensive to get and is probably the peice i have seem destroyed most often (either in transport or nocked off the table since its so tall)

[woodenronin]

I tend to use chimeras, my vendettas never make it long in the game. They are usually the first things shot at and destroyed.

[Martino]

Chimeras(4-8 in an army) with Vendettas/Valks (2-3) as fire support.

This reply was spot on. You need the chimeras to start out and use vendettas/valks as fire support or to pick up units blown out of chimeras.

Plus a chimera has a heavy flamer and multi laser, both deadly to non marine armies and rhino/razorbacks.

The chimera is the single best transport in 40k since the IG codex was released.

Don't underestimate amphibious if your table has water scenery on it.

[thecactusman17]

Vendettas all the way. Two chims for a scouting fast skimmer with three TLLC? Excellent trade off.

[Colonel Bindoff]

I've found that the flyers, in addition to ven's anti tank role, actually do a great job of keeping the heat off the chimeras, which can then get close enough to mop up the remaining vehicles and higher AV things with melta vets. Thing is, those gunships cause more concern than the little transports sneaking into position: usually they'll hurt something badly then get shot down rather than being around into the late game, so I say use both, make sure that your chimeras are in position for the second strike as it were.

Either that or take nine flyers in a 1500 point list. Everyone's favourite

[superhappyrobot]

They way I've experienced it (as an IG player), is that you should really never take more than 3 Valks/Vendettas because you don't want to squadron them. You should really be running 5-6 troop choices and at least one CCS, so you're going to have put them in Chimeras anyway (unless you're running a power blob). So 2-3 Vendettas alongside 3-4 Chimeras, plus probably another Chimera or two with Psyker Battle Squads in them. Add heavy support to taste, and you're good to go.

[Corvidae]

Vendetta's are the way to go! Totally worth their points, but they fulfill different roles, A vendetta makes a nice tank hunting support unit, who can also drop a squad off somewhere, which is a nice tactical option for veterans, or storm troops, or even just a ten man squad to grab an objective. Chimera's are a lot better for your standard ground support and using to block line of sight as well as being combined with other vehicles to form an armoured wall. Personally, if someone wanted me to pick one over the other regardless of situation and army build I would say Vendetta, but they both have their uses.

[LordJefferson]

The thing is, I'd limit you to a maximum of 3 Vendetta's or Valkyries and then however many Chimeras you want given the amount of remaining points. I would probably take Vendetta's over Valkyries as getting that many lascannons in one unit is hard to do for a similar points cost (It's 105 for a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons, which aren't twin-linked) Though multiple rocket pods aren't bad against hordes.

[SolidGopher]

I usually field at least one valk/vendetta in my list. I favor the chimera for the ability to fire out of it and I can use them as a wall to protect things behind them. i usually throw some melta vets into a vlak and skim them around the table hunting artillery or slower vehicles, but I don't really on them. they are a fun surprise for my opponent, but not one that i put much faith in.

[robrodgers46]

Chimera and Valk/Vendetta are two completely different things. The Chimera is a transport that can carry some weapons and has some great features, including being able to fire special weapons from inside. They give guard mobility, protection, and the ability to make your opponent divide his fire and make choices. The skimmer, especially the Vendetta version, is a pure mean as hell gunship that delivers the pain to any target on the board, and has the extra feature of carrying a unit inside to cause additional issues.

I really think the Vendetta is the best vehicle in the whole game. But it doesn't replace the Chimera, it complements it.

R

[miweq]

I use chimeras to make my scoring units relatively save from enemy fire. They are main vehicles in my vehicle-heavy lists - cheap, well armored and armed strong enough to destroy light vehicles/kill some infatry. I usually run them with multi-laser and heavy bolter although I plan to check if pintle-mounted heavy stubber is worth its points :)
Vendettas on the other hand are more specialised. I always load them with shotgun meltavets so if enemy's firepower is greater than mine (but it happens rarely :D) they can outflank and bring nice amount of anti-tank shots.

[gredert]

It is all about preference and play style. Myself, I got 4 valks day one, but as you mentioned, size and shape forced me to sell and trade them out for chimeras when I had to move long distance. Awesome models, I will admit, and the one I got painted (moved not long after release sadly) looked pimp on the board. But Chimeras are more cost effective when you factor in the model is slightly cheeper $$$, annd can fit eaiser into storage solutions. And on the board it is half the cost and still very usefull. I field a a third company in chimeras (2 platoons of 6 and company cmd, so much fun lol) when the game is big enough, and it makes people lose it more often than not, especially if I add HKMs to all 13 of them.

But seriously, go with what you like.

[Vostroyangen9072]

:)i'm a new Ig player but i just love the chimera(thinks of a BMP everytime i look at mine) , do to i'm a tread head, also that it keeps my scoring units safe for a little bit, does not have to worry about AA fire can follow my LRDST to objectives. but i would want to get at least 2 Vendettas for highly mobile Anit-Tank wing to support the the mechanized troops as they advance on objectives.