Bigred
11-24-2011, 02:57 PM
collated by Warseer's tireless TheDude (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324882)
General Information:
ghost21 reports that the plan is for 3 Chaos books. Legions, Renegades and Daemons
Daemons are already covered, so the next book will cover the Chaos Legions, with a future Renegades codex incorporating all manner of traitor humans, mutants and Marines-gone-bad.
ghost21 thinks this Legions book will be 1st or 2nd book after 6th edition, which is being released July 2012, putting the release around October-November 2012
Harry supports this, saying:
I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.
theDarkGeneral contradicts this, saying he has heard of 3 separate Legions books with an even split of Legions in each. He claims 2 are planned for release in 2012 and the third for early 2013. He further claims a “Lost and the Damned” style book and a “largely Daemon-based” campaign book are in the works for after that.
theDarkGeneral was supposedly given the Legion split breakdown as:
*World Eaters, Word Bearers and Nightlords
*Deathguard, Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children
*Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Black Legion
Mat Ward is rumoured to be writing the codex. (seriously guys, get over it )
Minor Gods will make an appearance and all Legions will be included
The minor Gods are named, and will act in a similar way to marks, but have no Daemons.
Background:
Ghost21 tells us the background has been expanded and improved so that Legions and their worship of the Gods is far less one-dimensional.
Rules:
Each Legion will have something unique to them, but will have unit restrictions to offset their inherent bonuses.
Ghost21 further clarifies by saying World Eaters may be restricted to 1 Havoc squad, but could potentially take more by “trading in” something else.
theDarkGeneral tells us:
it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...
And goes on to say the following about the different Legions:
*Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.
*Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!
*Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.
*Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!
*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...
*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...
*Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky *******s!
*Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.
Ghost21 tells us Chaos units have built in negatives depending on the God. It is unclear if these are just Cult Troops, or all Marked units
Nurgle units can’t perform Sweeping Advances and are what he refers to as “stoic” (possibly meaning slow and purposeful, possibly just the name of this group of rules)
Khorne has to “engage in some kind of combat every turn” (not sure what this means ie does shooting count?) or roll on a D6 table and suffer some random penalty
Tzeentch require a “command figure” (likely Sorcerer) or will act based on a random D6 roll
Slaanesh are described only as having “very harsh results”
theDarkGeneral says Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or even 2+ (possibly through a special character).
HQ
Special Characters:
ghost21 tells us characters will supposedly be very powerful, including the “Red Angel” from this artwork (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/Plasmasturm/DSCF0863.jpg)
Although ghost21 goes on to say he hasn’t seen a named Warsmith character, only a Dark Mechanicus one.
theDarkGeneral claims we will see the return of Droomrider, Doombreed, and Cypher as well as another 5 new characters. This does not preclude any or all existing special characters being included.
theDarkGeneral also tells us there will be a Slaaneshi Dreadnaught special character.
theDarkGeneral reports that Ahriman will be better due to new Chaos Psychic powers as well as "some kind of guaranteed psychic ability that can't be stopped via Psychic Hoods, etc"
Elites
theDarkGeneral tells us Chaos Dreadnaughts will no longer act randomly, and are able to take marks, but will not be able to be Venerable.
theDarkGeneral claims Possessed will be improved and supposedly have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.
ghost21 tells us there will be a "gladiator themed" World Eater unit
ghost21 also says Emperor's Children will have access to a unit described as "soul shieldsman" which is possibly an upgrade for Veterans.
Troops
theDarkGeneral implies there will be some kind of “Scout unit” which will not be available to World Eaters.
God-specific Daemons will likely be included, but ghost21 is only sure of the lesser varieties (Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Daemonettes & Horrors) and not the greater ones
theDarkGeneral claims Daemons will remain as they are in the Daemons Codex, but with slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and certain 6th edition changes.
Fast Attack
theDarkGeneral claims “Assault Berzerkers” with jump packs will be available as Fast Attack choices.
ghost21 tells us Doomrider will be a unit upgrade (presumably for Bike squads)
ghost21 also adds that Nurgle Bikes are in, but their "Stoic" rule may make them less effective in his opinion.
theDarkGeneral mentions a new unit called Brazen Knights consiting of "Skull Champions" (possibly super Khornate CSM Champions) riding Juggernauts
Heavy Support
theDarkGeneral tells us Slaughterfiends from Apoc will be available, as well as versions for other Legions and Marks.
theDarkGeneral reports Obliterators maximum unit size is increased to 4
theDarkGeneral says most types of Daemon Engines can be taken as 3 per FOC slot
theDarkGeneral claims Legions will get a new Landraider pattern with a higher transport capacity (possibly 15) and is described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions”
Marked Legions are rumoured to get Havocs
theDarkGeneral has also hinted at the possibility of a new Monstrous Creature that is not a Greater Daemon. No further info is available as yet.
Miniatures:
Plastic Dreadnaught rumoured by both ghost21 and theDarkGeneral. TheDarkGeneral claims it will include multiple Dreadnought close combat weapons types, such as the Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge, etc.
Plastic Plague Bearers rumoured to appear in the 6th edition started
Plastic Raptors have been confirmed by the ever-reliable 75hastings69 who said:
I can add to this that the new plastic Raptors are very nice
Abaddon – ghost21 claims this miniature is almost identical to the existing one, but “bulkier and taller”
Little Horus - ghost21 reports seeing a miniature for this guy, and implies it is very good
ghost21 also claims to have spotted a miniature for a Dark Mechanicus character, but is unsure if he will make it to release. He described it as:
a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece
UPDATE: UNIT DETAILS
So more chat time with the boyz over on FB...
It sounds like we're getting a large upgrade to our current plight when it comes to vehicles and gear and equipment and special rules. Some will be current "Marine type" vehicles, but a few new ones. Yeah, there is a Chaos "flyer" but it's NOT the Hell Blade (or Hell Talon). Not a troop transport, just designed to cause havoc on entrenched enemy squads (hvy Flamers?).
Here's a list of what things we talked about, items with an evil grin are tentative...
*Power of the Machine Spirit/Infernal Engine -possible
*Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer/?: -possible
*They Shalt Know No Fear: -no
*Fearless: (Cult Terminators, and a few specific Legions) -certain units posibly
*Razorback: -no
*Whirlwind: -no
*Attack Bikes: (possibly with Reaper Autocannons) -kinda
*Thunderfire Cannon: (Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion) -they get something else , but kinda
*Landspeeder: -sort of
*Artificer Armor: -its called something else
*Techmarines: (about half the Legions) -kind of
*Chaplains: (Word Bearers) -only word bearers
*Psychic Hood: -its called something else
*Stormraven Gunship: -no
*Venerable Dreads: -only one thats a sc
UPDATED 12-17-2011
Straightsilver wrote:
Well I wasn't going to post in this as I have decided to stay pretty much out of the rumours forum to be honest.
I just wanted to back up what some of the others have been saying, rumours are just that and should be treated as such.
I have a couple of very good contacts at GW HQ and they often mention things to me regarding future releases, but as Aaron said more often than not they heard it from X, who heard it from Y etc.
It's also the fact that GW work years in advance and things do change, so what may be true early on in development will not be true by time of release.
There's also the fact that people are only human and things do get misinterpreted once they hit the web, and also people just sometimes don't want to agree with you.
The problem I have found is that people do take it all a bit personally, and that's the reason I stopped posting in the rumours threads, as I had a bad experience on "another forum".
However I would say to Ghost keep posting, not everything will be right but that's why they're called rumours, and everybody will have an opinion.
And I would also like to say that I have met Aaron a couple of times at BL events, Games Day etc and he really is a top bloke. It is way too easy on the internet to misinterpret what somebody is saying because you aren't face to face, and I don't for one minute think he was being confrontational.
And as far as I know since GW set up Black Library (after Boxtree published for them) they have stayed away from including original author creations in Codexes.
I think the exception may be Gaunt in one of the previous IG Codexes, but generally you won't see Ciaphas Cain, Eisenhorn etc in a Codex.
Back on topic I don't have a huge amount to offer, as I say I tend not to disclose anything these days but I do recall something that Jervis Johnson said a while ago.
Apparently when Gav Thorpe wrote the last CSM Dex he was given very strict instructions on what he could and couldn't do. He was pretty much forced to streamline the Codex as the dev team thought the previous one was too complicated.
Gav really didn't have much say in the Dex, and wasn't happy with just how stripped down it was, but those were the wishes of the design department.
However Jervis said that as soon as the Dex was released they realised they had made a mistake, and started planning the new Dex almost immediately.
Suffice it to say this new Dex has been in planning for quite some time, and the idea was to reintegrate some of the elements from the Codex before last.
Jervis also said that the plan was to release the Legions book, but keep the current CSM Codex as a Renegades Codex.
This may be where the confusion of 2 books arises from, as far as I know the new Legions Dex will be in addition to the CSM one, not a replacement.
However that info is well over a year old now so once again, don't shoot the messenger.
I believe Jervis touched upon the point in one of his Standard Bearer articles, I will see if I can dig out which one, but it was ages ago. He then expanded on the article to somebody that I know, but as I say this was over a year ago now if memory serves.
In terms of the differences, the new Chaos Legions Codex is supposed to represent the Traitor Marines who fled to the Eye of Terror after the Heresy.
They are therfore Chaos Legionnaires rather than Chaos Marines, and are therefore different to the Marines who have since turned their backs on the Emperor and have gone renegade.
They are much older, and closer to their original Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) and will have distinct rules to represent this.
In terms of Traitor Guard apparently the idea for a full Traitor Guard Codex was put forward but was rejected.
Rumours say that Traitor Guard will be available as a unit choice in the new Legions Codex (by taking Alpha Legion) but won't be available as a full army.
AFAIK the only current plans are for the Legions Codex, nothing else. The current CSM Codex will remain to represent Traitor Marines rather than Legionnaires.
General Information:
ghost21 reports that the plan is for 3 Chaos books. Legions, Renegades and Daemons
Daemons are already covered, so the next book will cover the Chaos Legions, with a future Renegades codex incorporating all manner of traitor humans, mutants and Marines-gone-bad.
ghost21 thinks this Legions book will be 1st or 2nd book after 6th edition, which is being released July 2012, putting the release around October-November 2012
Harry supports this, saying:
I do think CSM are the first sixth edition book but not sure if they come just before or just after 6th edition.
theDarkGeneral contradicts this, saying he has heard of 3 separate Legions books with an even split of Legions in each. He claims 2 are planned for release in 2012 and the third for early 2013. He further claims a “Lost and the Damned” style book and a “largely Daemon-based” campaign book are in the works for after that.
theDarkGeneral was supposedly given the Legion split breakdown as:
*World Eaters, Word Bearers and Nightlords
*Deathguard, Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children
*Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion and Black Legion
Mat Ward is rumoured to be writing the codex. (seriously guys, get over it )
Minor Gods will make an appearance and all Legions will be included
The minor Gods are named, and will act in a similar way to marks, but have no Daemons.
Background:
Ghost21 tells us the background has been expanded and improved so that Legions and their worship of the Gods is far less one-dimensional.
Rules:
Each Legion will have something unique to them, but will have unit restrictions to offset their inherent bonuses.
Ghost21 further clarifies by saying World Eaters may be restricted to 1 Havoc squad, but could potentially take more by “trading in” something else.
theDarkGeneral tells us:
it won't change according to your Legion (HQs) as in swapping more Heavies for less Fast, but your access to units in those categories opens up, becomes limited, or closes off accordingly. Easy example I was given, is taking Khorne Daemon Prince means no Scouts...
And goes on to say the following about the different Legions:
*Nightlords: I don't ask much about them, though a lil' i have for my buddy Paul has around 25,000+ points of them...Hit & Run and Stealth for universal special rules, but possible counter attack (for elite unit) as well as jump pack troops.
*Word Bearers: Apparently getting a lil' extra attention, and besides Dark Apostles, new models for "daemonancers", which just might be unit champs/sgt upgrades. I'm not sure. BUT, their summoning of Daemons from the Warp apparently allows re-rolls on the scatter dice, as well as new mishap chart!
*Deathguard: Feel no pain and blight grenades for their Cult Terminators, new nasty flamers upgrades.
*Thousand Sons: AP3 bolters will be MUCH more useful under 6th Edition, and a couple new Psychic abilities, one of which (supposedly) can remove an entire enemy squad from the table on a failed stat test!
*Iron Warriors: Access to Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield termies, thunderfire cannon off-shoot, Havocs w/Tank Hunters and relentless for some squad...
*Emperor's Children: Lash is finally changed to be more in line with Daemon version. More heavy weapons upgrade count for larger units. Better Bikes? Not sure what that means...
*Alpha Legion: Lots of infiltrating abilities, outflanking, and even temporary control of enemy squads/vehicles...basically sneaky *******s!
*Black Legion: HQs allow broader access to all unit types, but lack of better universal special rules.
Ghost21 tells us Chaos units have built in negatives depending on the God. It is unclear if these are just Cult Troops, or all Marked units
Nurgle units can’t perform Sweeping Advances and are what he refers to as “stoic” (possibly meaning slow and purposeful, possibly just the name of this group of rules)
Khorne has to “engage in some kind of combat every turn” (not sure what this means ie does shooting count?) or roll on a D6 table and suffer some random penalty
Tzeentch require a “command figure” (likely Sorcerer) or will act based on a random D6 roll
Slaanesh are described only as having “very harsh results”
theDarkGeneral says Nurgle Flamers can be made poisoned 3+ or even 2+ (possibly through a special character).
HQ
Special Characters:
ghost21 tells us characters will supposedly be very powerful, including the “Red Angel” from this artwork (http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/Plasmasturm/DSCF0863.jpg)
Although ghost21 goes on to say he hasn’t seen a named Warsmith character, only a Dark Mechanicus one.
theDarkGeneral claims we will see the return of Droomrider, Doombreed, and Cypher as well as another 5 new characters. This does not preclude any or all existing special characters being included.
theDarkGeneral also tells us there will be a Slaaneshi Dreadnaught special character.
theDarkGeneral reports that Ahriman will be better due to new Chaos Psychic powers as well as "some kind of guaranteed psychic ability that can't be stopped via Psychic Hoods, etc"
Elites
theDarkGeneral tells us Chaos Dreadnaughts will no longer act randomly, and are able to take marks, but will not be able to be Venerable.
theDarkGeneral claims Possessed will be improved and supposedly have upgrades either already included or that you can pay for.
ghost21 tells us there will be a "gladiator themed" World Eater unit
ghost21 also says Emperor's Children will have access to a unit described as "soul shieldsman" which is possibly an upgrade for Veterans.
Troops
theDarkGeneral implies there will be some kind of “Scout unit” which will not be available to World Eaters.
God-specific Daemons will likely be included, but ghost21 is only sure of the lesser varieties (Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Daemonettes & Horrors) and not the greater ones
theDarkGeneral claims Daemons will remain as they are in the Daemons Codex, but with slight points adjustments to reflect the ability to summon them and certain 6th edition changes.
Fast Attack
theDarkGeneral claims “Assault Berzerkers” with jump packs will be available as Fast Attack choices.
ghost21 tells us Doomrider will be a unit upgrade (presumably for Bike squads)
ghost21 also adds that Nurgle Bikes are in, but their "Stoic" rule may make them less effective in his opinion.
theDarkGeneral mentions a new unit called Brazen Knights consiting of "Skull Champions" (possibly super Khornate CSM Champions) riding Juggernauts
Heavy Support
theDarkGeneral tells us Slaughterfiends from Apoc will be available, as well as versions for other Legions and Marks.
theDarkGeneral reports Obliterators maximum unit size is increased to 4
theDarkGeneral says most types of Daemon Engines can be taken as 3 per FOC slot
theDarkGeneral claims Legions will get a new Landraider pattern with a higher transport capacity (possibly 15) and is described as a "warped version of one of the Imperial versions”
Marked Legions are rumoured to get Havocs
theDarkGeneral has also hinted at the possibility of a new Monstrous Creature that is not a Greater Daemon. No further info is available as yet.
Miniatures:
Plastic Dreadnaught rumoured by both ghost21 and theDarkGeneral. TheDarkGeneral claims it will include multiple Dreadnought close combat weapons types, such as the Chainfist, Thunder Hammer, Power Scourge, etc.
Plastic Plague Bearers rumoured to appear in the 6th edition started
Plastic Raptors have been confirmed by the ever-reliable 75hastings69 who said:
I can add to this that the new plastic Raptors are very nice
Abaddon – ghost21 claims this miniature is almost identical to the existing one, but “bulkier and taller”
Little Horus - ghost21 reports seeing a miniature for this guy, and implies it is very good
ghost21 also claims to have spotted a miniature for a Dark Mechanicus character, but is unsure if he will make it to release. He described it as:
a very creepy sculpt based on a john Blanche piece
UPDATE: UNIT DETAILS
So more chat time with the boyz over on FB...
It sounds like we're getting a large upgrade to our current plight when it comes to vehicles and gear and equipment and special rules. Some will be current "Marine type" vehicles, but a few new ones. Yeah, there is a Chaos "flyer" but it's NOT the Hell Blade (or Hell Talon). Not a troop transport, just designed to cause havoc on entrenched enemy squads (hvy Flamers?).
Here's a list of what things we talked about, items with an evil grin are tentative...
*Power of the Machine Spirit/Infernal Engine -possible
*Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer/?: -possible
*They Shalt Know No Fear: -no
*Fearless: (Cult Terminators, and a few specific Legions) -certain units posibly
*Razorback: -no
*Whirlwind: -no
*Attack Bikes: (possibly with Reaper Autocannons) -kinda
*Thunderfire Cannon: (Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion) -they get something else , but kinda
*Landspeeder: -sort of
*Artificer Armor: -its called something else
*Techmarines: (about half the Legions) -kind of
*Chaplains: (Word Bearers) -only word bearers
*Psychic Hood: -its called something else
*Stormraven Gunship: -no
*Venerable Dreads: -only one thats a sc
UPDATED 12-17-2011
Straightsilver wrote:
Well I wasn't going to post in this as I have decided to stay pretty much out of the rumours forum to be honest.
I just wanted to back up what some of the others have been saying, rumours are just that and should be treated as such.
I have a couple of very good contacts at GW HQ and they often mention things to me regarding future releases, but as Aaron said more often than not they heard it from X, who heard it from Y etc.
It's also the fact that GW work years in advance and things do change, so what may be true early on in development will not be true by time of release.
There's also the fact that people are only human and things do get misinterpreted once they hit the web, and also people just sometimes don't want to agree with you.
The problem I have found is that people do take it all a bit personally, and that's the reason I stopped posting in the rumours threads, as I had a bad experience on "another forum".
However I would say to Ghost keep posting, not everything will be right but that's why they're called rumours, and everybody will have an opinion.
And I would also like to say that I have met Aaron a couple of times at BL events, Games Day etc and he really is a top bloke. It is way too easy on the internet to misinterpret what somebody is saying because you aren't face to face, and I don't for one minute think he was being confrontational.
And as far as I know since GW set up Black Library (after Boxtree published for them) they have stayed away from including original author creations in Codexes.
I think the exception may be Gaunt in one of the previous IG Codexes, but generally you won't see Ciaphas Cain, Eisenhorn etc in a Codex.
Back on topic I don't have a huge amount to offer, as I say I tend not to disclose anything these days but I do recall something that Jervis Johnson said a while ago.
Apparently when Gav Thorpe wrote the last CSM Dex he was given very strict instructions on what he could and couldn't do. He was pretty much forced to streamline the Codex as the dev team thought the previous one was too complicated.
Gav really didn't have much say in the Dex, and wasn't happy with just how stripped down it was, but those were the wishes of the design department.
However Jervis said that as soon as the Dex was released they realised they had made a mistake, and started planning the new Dex almost immediately.
Suffice it to say this new Dex has been in planning for quite some time, and the idea was to reintegrate some of the elements from the Codex before last.
Jervis also said that the plan was to release the Legions book, but keep the current CSM Codex as a Renegades Codex.
This may be where the confusion of 2 books arises from, as far as I know the new Legions Dex will be in addition to the CSM one, not a replacement.
However that info is well over a year old now so once again, don't shoot the messenger.
I believe Jervis touched upon the point in one of his Standard Bearer articles, I will see if I can dig out which one, but it was ages ago. He then expanded on the article to somebody that I know, but as I say this was over a year ago now if memory serves.
In terms of the differences, the new Chaos Legions Codex is supposed to represent the Traitor Marines who fled to the Eye of Terror after the Heresy.
They are therfore Chaos Legionnaires rather than Chaos Marines, and are therefore different to the Marines who have since turned their backs on the Emperor and have gone renegade.
They are much older, and closer to their original Legions (World Eaters, Thousand Sons etc) and will have distinct rules to represent this.
In terms of Traitor Guard apparently the idea for a full Traitor Guard Codex was put forward but was rejected.
Rumours say that Traitor Guard will be available as a unit choice in the new Legions Codex (by taking Alpha Legion) but won't be available as a full army.
AFAIK the only current plans are for the Legions Codex, nothing else. The current CSM Codex will remain to represent Traitor Marines rather than Legionnaires.