Deathmarks & Grand Illusion

[blackarmchair]

The rules for deathmarks says that they select their special target when they deploy; Grand Illusion says that units may be placed back into reserve before the game starts.

If I am understanding/reading the rules here correctly it is legitimate to deploy the deathmarks as normal and declare a target during deployment; then to place them back into reserve using Grand Illusion and then declare a new target once they're redeployed.

Does this seem correct to everyone else?

[thecactusman17]

I was thinking about this, and I'm not sure. What I know is this: you can't have more than one target per unit. However, I could see an argument for redeploying and choosing a different unit as a powerful form of manipulating your opponent into making a critical deployment mistake.

[blackarmchair]

Exactly what I was thinking!

Obviously you could only ever have one target, but it might be fun to go first, declare a target, make an opponent poop his pants defending the target, and then put them back into reserve with Grand Illusion.

[Wildeybeast]

"Once all forces have been deployed...roll a D3. You can immeadiately redeploy this many friendly units, subject to the normal deployment rules for the mission." p41
"When a deathmark unit deploys" p36

The deathmarks have already deployed and as such have chosen their target. Your are then making special and I believe unique move, at the very end of the deployment phase, called a redeployment.They have made their 'deployment' move already, you are now bypassing the normal rules to place them back into reserve, or change their position on the battlefield. So the question is, 'is the act of placing them elsewhere on the table, or them arriving from reserve, a second deployment?'
To moving them, I would say no as this a redployment, not a deployment, a unique move. Arriving from reserve or deep striking is more problematic. You could argue that the act of moving them off the table and into reserve is the redeployment and thus them arriving later in the game is simply deployment. Equally you could argue that this is part of the redployment as well. I'd say it needs FAQing as you can argue either way, personally I'd say no again as it seems rather unfair.

There is also the issue of when Deathmarks held in reserve place their token. Is it during the deployment phase when they are placed in reserve or when they are actually placed on the table? Clearly the former greatly benefits the Necron player as other Deathmarks can benefit from a unit that could be stuck in reserve until quite late in the game.

[blackarmchair]

To the first part: I agree it would come down to what "redeploy" means. Honestly, I think O
I understand both views and think we're gonna have to wait for a FAQ.

To the second I would say the Deathmarks place their token whenever they deploy. This could be during the deployment phase or after a deep-strike.

So if deploy and redeploy are the same kind of move I think the plan would be legal. I do think you have a compelling argument in suggesting that a redeploy is a unique move. So tricky.

[AbusePuppy]

If you "redeploy" them into reserve, they will then deploy a second time when they arrive onto the field as per the standard rules.

However, note the singular use of the word "chosen unit" in the Deathmark description. Being that it is singular, we are forced to assume that even if you "mark" a second unit, it supersedes the one you had previously marked.

(There is still a way to take advantage of this, though. Start with three Deathmarks deployed, then use Grand Illusion to hide one of them back in reserve. Let the two remaining units on the field shoot at their three targets and, ideally, kill off the one marked by the squad stuck back into reserve. When the reserved unit deploys back onto the field, mark a new unit- you've lost the mark on the old one, but since it's hopefully dead by now, that is probably irrelevant. You could potentially stick two of them back and have an effective five marks instead of four, but with only one unit on the field starting, it's much less likely you'd successfully kill something off in time.)

[blackarmchair]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing that it's possible to mark more than a single unit at a time. My suggestion was that by deploying them and marking a unit you force your opponent be defensive in his placement of that unit. Then Grand Illusion places them back into reserve and you are then free to enter from reserves as normal and choose any unit as your target upon entry.