WFB Contingent Rumor Roundup

[Bigred]

via Warseer's Ender Shadowkin (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323698)

Overall Summary
GW is going to produce a set of contingent rules which includes at least 5 new factions with model support.

The contingents will first appear in a White Dwarf (perhaps one or two at a time); WD will become what it used to be, models may appear around the same time. A contingent book encapsulating the new contingents and rules will be further on down the line.

This will not effect the release schedule for other armies

There will be rules to add contingents to your normal lists, possible scheme to add contingents from existing armies.

GW may be using this as an opportunity to clear out old stock of Kislev and Dogs of War.

Rumored Combo Book with WE and Brettonia that Ghost thought might be referring to upcoming contingent rules

A related rumor indicates the contingent paradign may be getting worked into the 40k rules as well, with GW seeing this as an opportunity to expand the scope of their game world without generating detailed armybooks for all the new things they want to include.

Contingent Rules
Contingents are aligned with Destruction, Order, or neutral similar to ally rules, there are supposed to be 2 of each in the first 6 new armies to be released.

Only 2 special/universal characters will make it into the book.
The allies rule has 3 different ways of aligning your force with another theres neutral allies, friendly and unfriendly (unfriendly represents, people forcing them to fight or they don't like each other but its for the best) there will be rules to use say (its just an example) chaos in empire.

There are significant drawbacks to this they also will be balanced for about 750 points to use by themselves, any more they lack any heavy hitters. You can align 2 or all of them together to create a rag tag army or infernal alliance (that's the exact wording), however some really hate each other and so have some drawbacks

There's only 1 character who can be an over general ( removing bad effects) and he's estallian

Allied lists can be used stand alone, but there will be no lord level character
Rules for Pikes were mentions

Future Expansion
Popular contigents may get more units later on. Zoats, snakemen, and fimir are being handled by forgeworld , but ghost felt these may get their own contingent list later on as well.

Rumors on the Book
5 of the coningents will make it into book with the official allie rules and possibly some scenarios.

These 5 armies are:
Insectoids
Fishmen/ichthylids
Estalia
Araby
Other non-human



Contingent Lists
Here are the rumors relevant to specific contingents
Each contingent to have 3-4 units 1-2 characters

Fishmen/Ichthylids
Harry was shown concept art a few years back, which could have been a preview or just a continuation of the long standing studio fishmen Joke
There is a long standing joke in the studio about the next release being fishmen. However tidbits about undersea creates continue to build up in the books (lizardmen book, sea creature rules in BRB). And on models (dark elf corsairs/special character)

Insectoids
Fire Belly Shield motif on latest ogre kingdom model may be clue about insectizoid race. Insect race also mentioned in the Ogre book, possible some fluff reference to kuresh or ind somewhere as well
Hinted at not being in the forces of destruction

Pirate list
Rumored to be White Dwarf Only

Estalia
Have a character that removes negative effects of opposingly aligned allies
Pike units and pike plus crossbow units

Kislev
Cavalry Using Old Sculpts with New Models
Re-releasing old sculpts in fine cast
New Ice wizard model
New unit of arquebus

Non-human Contingent
something that will be in the book, not yet identified

Araby
Will have 2 Cavalry units, 2 infantry units, 1 monstrous infantry unit, and 1 hero
No Elephants
Camel janissaries/ long barreled gun powder cavalry
Araby Wizard with Harem Guard
Djinn (see araby dread fleet boat)
Elemental Type unit for four basic elements with fancy names (e.g. Fire Efreets), presumably the Djinn would fit in here.

Dogs of War/ Tilea
Ghosts said not at first, Harry heard a whisper about them, could have been something about wharfs of Gouda though. Ghost indicated Tilians will get a WD list but will not make it into the book.
Tileasn will get units for duelists, pikemen, crossbowmen, heavy cav, and a wizard with a new poison lore

Chaos Dwarves
No specific rumors other than Forgeworld being told to stop making new ones (Hasstings69, et al). This could potentially mean that they are being reserved for some sort of future GW development, or not, we'll see.

[Lord Azaghul]

Bug and fish people...I REALLY hope not...

A Dogs of War reboot - yeah I can dig that!

[Faultie]

I want my Kislevites off the shelf and on the table! I REALLY hope there's a new War Wagon model too!

[Xenith]

Fish men were also mentioned in the WoC book's timeline section.

[Wildcard]

Hearing that this will not affect other release schedules, it seems that team & resources behind Lords of the Rings-stuff has been moved to work with FaBa-setting.

Not a bad idea at all imo

[Kepora]

Me want see gnolls somewhere in there! :B

[Wildeybeast]

I want my Kislevites off the shelf and on the table! I REALLY hope there's a new War Wagon model too!

If you want a war wagon, you will have to wait until the Empire get an update.

What I want to know more about is this:
"Rumored Combo Book with WE and Brettonia that Ghost thought might be referring to upcoming contingent rules"

Is that saying that WE and Bretonnians are going to get a combined army book? Cos there will be many people mighty unhappy with that, myself included.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I agree with WildeyBeast on the doubled up WE/Brets book

Onto rumoured armies!~

So...Fantasy Tyranids awesome, got it. I guess the next thing we hear is, their homeland will be Silithus xD. But bugs in the fantasy realm might take a bit of getting used to. However; If Gee-dub models them after bugs in space I think it would be much more appealing, and would give some neat change to the Hammerverse.

So when I think of the supposive mer-creatures as Naga in the Hammerverse. It sounds so much cooler than "fishmen." I honestly, and whole heartedly believe that I would have a lot of fun with an army of trident wielding gillmen, and of course the all powerful special character Nessy...

Chaos Dwarfs. I don't really like current dwarfs on the tabletop. But something about Hashut and his stumpy hell bringers sounds awesomely awesome! Plus all of their sick and twisted warp technology that could make the skaven engineers drool, oh yeah! And we can't forget about the redbulls xD -insert nerdy can't wait squeel-

Araby are like the survivors of the tomb king descendants no? Camels no, Olliphaunts yes. Oh, they aren't making giant pachyderms? boo/hiss Not interested (for now).

I'm indifferent about the Kislevs. Maybe if you can intergrate some "redeemed" Warriors from the northern waste into the group I might be more interested. Who doesn't love a good axe wielding Viking?!

Tilea, To field a Grudgebringer army is about the only appealing thing to me.

[gcsmith]

WE and Bret wouldnt be too bad if done properly but would prefer seperate books, only reason to join them is to give each less options and be lazy

[Lane]

Bug and fish people...I REALLY hope not...

Hey, it's only fair, 40k got Necrons so it's time Fantasy got an uncool race.

Maybe Mat Ward can write the army list to ensure they are popular.

[Wildeybeast]

WE and Bret wouldnt be too bad if done properly but would prefer seperate books, only reason to join them is to give each less options and be lazy

You are right, they wouldn't be that bad, they would be ABSOLUTELY F*****G AWFULL! Honestly, taking two armies, who already have their own distinct background, more than enough troop types to field valid and vaired armies, who have completely different playstyles and mashing them together is a ridiculous idea. The only connection they share is that they happen to be neighbours. So on that basis, why not do Lizardmen and Dark Elves!? Dwarves and Skaven!? The only possible redeeming feature for this idea is that you would end up with armies consisting of the best cavalry in the game backed up by the best archers in the game and thus have game breaking super armies. But even then, Bret and WE players would still be mighty unhappy (as would everyone else, I hasten to add).

Which is why I'm hoping I've misunderstood this and that someone can shed more light on it rendering my current nerd rage premature.

[Xas]

maybe the "combined release" is just that they will be released at same time?
would break the current habbit but ATM gw is already breaking habbits left, right and center.

it could also be that these books are more of an update (points, fluff, wargear, rules) and less of an upgrade (fewer new things) and therefore not much new stuff would come out (as has been said: the armies are allready quite fleshed out and have many good plastic boxes.

[eldargal]

They are getting seperate books. The confusion came about because someone claimed there was going to be a combined WE/Bret book and Ghost said he thought they may have seen something related to the contingency book and jumped to the wrong conclusion, if I recall correctly.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I agree, I think common sense should dictate that it was probably something along the lines of them being released 'bout the same time and the whispers' train turned it into the contingent.

[Wildeybeast]

They are getting seperate books. The confusion came about because someone claimed there was going to be a combined WE/Bret book and Ghost said he thought they may have seen something related to the contingency book and jumped to the wrong conclusion, if I recall correctly.

Nerd rage assuaged thanks eldarga!l

[Keyoz]

Honestly, taking two armies, who already have their own distinct background, more than enough troop types to field valid and vaired armies, who have completely different playstyles and mashing them together is a ridiculous idea. The only connection they share is that they happen to be neighbours.
Read some more fluff - Bretonnia is Wood Elves puppet country, a buffer to protect their forest. Lady of the Lake is an elven deity, damsels and prophetesses are trained in magic by elves in the forest, and the green knight is a forest spirit.

I'm don't like the idea of combining them into one book but it makes sense.


Araby are like the survivors of the tomb king descendants no?

No.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So things were put into perspective for me last night on the reason there probably will not be any new armies or whatever. Basically it was summed up to me that GW only has an allotted group of designers that work on all of the fantasy armies, and there are already 16 armies in fantasy? With any expansion you are putting a heavier work load on a group of designers that are not going to increase. And the return on sales would not compensate for the return on investment. So it in fact would be pointless for any further new product lines.

Which made sense to me. Which is sad, I'd rather have chaos dwarfs than more humans I don't care about. xD

[Wildeybeast]

Read some more fluff - Bretonnia is Wood Elves puppet country, a buffer to protect their forest. Lady of the Lake is an elven deity, damsels and prophetesses are trained in magic by elves in the forest, and the green knight is a forest spirit.

I'm don't like the idea of combining them into one book but it makes sense.

Utter nonsense. Have you made this your account just to troll me? I've read plenty of fluff and clearly far more than you. Bretonnia is not the wood elves 'puppet country'. WE retreated into the woods when all the other elves left after the war of the beard and settled there, becoming more introverted. The Brets didn't wander into the land next door until much later. In fact if you read the Time of Legends stuff, they are forced into there by Sigmar's actions around 2000 years later and Bretonnia doesn't become united under Giles until nearly another 1000 years after that. WE don't bother with the Bretonnians except when stupidly wander into Athel Loren, a mistake they don't make twice. They occasionally fight against mutal enemies, but that is the extent of their link. WE like having Brets there as a buffer, but show me a single reference to back up your other claims as I have never heard of them.

[Keyoz]

Utter nonsense. Have you made this your account just to troll me? I've read plenty of fluff and clearly far more than you.Try getting your hands on WHFRP 2ed. Knights of the Grail book. Its not like they try to hint at that stuff- they state plainly that the Fay (guys who steal children and train Damsels) are WE and Fay Enchantress is an Elven Sorceress (page 42).

If you look at the actual model of the Fay Enchantress - she looks like one of the older Elf sculpts.

Of course as with almost everything in WHFB/40K there is conflicting Black Library fluff because writers don't do the damn research, but when you realise that Fay are actually Wood Elves it becomes obvious that Damsels are their human agents and WE control the country using religion.

[Wildeybeast]

Ah and here enters the problem. There is a lot of debate about how cannonical the roleplay stuff is, given it is published under license by a variety of different companies over time and GW not being quite as tight with it as they are with the license for something like their video games. And even it were considered cannonical, it is still a stretch to call Bretonnia their puppet country and it certainly does not make sense from a gaming point of view to combine them into one book as they are two very seperate armies with seperate identities and playstyles.

[Keyoz]

Ah and here enters the problem. There is a lot of debate about how cannonical the roleplay stuff is, given it is published under license by a variety of different companies over time and GW not being quite as tight with it as they are with the license for something like their video games.
This stuff is being hinted at in the Bretonnian army book, and Knigths of the Grail was done by Black Industries - a part of GW.

As for if its canon or not – there’s no such thing. Every GW author can and will disregard any previous fluff because he didn’t do the research or simply because he wants to, and small retcons are part of almost every book. Conflicting fluff is the bread and butter of GW’s publishing eg. in various publications Arabyans were described amongst others as atheist, monotheist and chaos worshipers. You decide what’s canon for you.

And even it were considered cannonical, it is still a stretch to call Bretonnia their puppet country
We could discuss if being united as a country because of Elven influence, and Elfs controlling the state religion powerful enough to dethrone kings counts as a puppet country or not but I don’t really see the point.

it certainly does not make sense from a gaming point of view to combine them into one book as they are two very seperate armies with seperate identities and playstyles.
I doesn’t, I was referring to it making sense from the fluff perspective.

[eldargal]

The Lady of the Lake MAY be Ariel, and the Fey Enchantress is an Elf. That is all, there is nothing to indicate Bretonnia is a puppet state of the Wood Elf kingdom, they have fought against each other afterall. However given that Bretonnia and the Wood Elves have come to blows before it is quite clear they exercise little control over the nation even if they do guide their belief system. Having them in the same book makes no sense whatsoever as they have completely different fighting styles.

[Keyoz]

The Lady of the Lake MAY be Ariel, and the Fey Enchantress is an Elf.
So the personal representative of the Lady of the Lake is an Elf but Lady of the Lake MAY not be an Elven deity?

That is all, there is nothing to indicate Bretonnia is a puppet state of the Wood Elf kingdom,
You all seem to be fixated on the word puppet. If I would have said that they have major influence over Bretonnia you all would be ok with that? It seems like we’re discussing semantic here.

they have fought against each other afterall.
Because internal conflict is completely unheard of in the world of Warhammer.

However given that Bretonnia and the Wood Elves have come to blows before it is quite clear they exercise little control over the nation even if they do guide their belief system.
Yes, WE are not bend on world domination. They created a belief system that protects them from human expansion and gives them a major influence over them (like dethroning kings or calling for crusades). How much they decide to interfere with the politics of Bretonnia is their decision. The setup is purely defensive- Bretonnia creates a buffer zone for the Athel Loren.

Having them in the same book makes no sense whatsoever as they have completely different fighting styles.

I was referring to it making sense from the fluff perspective.

[eldargal]

We aren't fixated, you overstated your argument dramatically by implying the Wood Elves controlled the Bretonnian state as a puppet. They do not. All we know is that the Fey Enchantress is an Elf, it doesn't follow that she is pulling strings in Bretonnia to actively interfere in their affairs. They may or may not be a buffer state, that is irrelevent. Regardless there is no kind of justification whatsoever for including Wood Elves and Bretonnians in the same book, not from a game mechanics perspective nor a background perspective.

Short version:
Do the Wood Elves have influence over Bretonnia? Yes
Is Bretonnia controlled by or a puppet state of the Wood Elves? No
Should they get seperate books? Yes
Are they getting seperate books? Yes

[Faultie]

All of this is immaterial. I WANT MORE INFO ON KISLEVITES!

[Wildeybeast]

We aren't fixated, you overstated your argument dramatically by implying the Wood Elves controlled the Bretonnian state as a puppet. They do not. All we know is that the Fey Enchantress is an Elf, it doesn't follow that she is pulling strings in Bretonnia to actively interfere in their affairs. They may or may not be a buffer state, that is irrelevent. Regardless there is no kind of justification whatsoever for including Wood Elves and Bretonnians in the same book, not from a game mechanics perspective nor a background perspective.

Short version:
Do the Wood Elves have influence over Bretonnia? Yes
Is Bretonnia controlled by or a puppet state of the Wood Elves? No
Should they get seperate books? Yes
Are they getting seperate books? Yes

Exactly my thoughts. The empire has significant cultural and religious influence on the border princes, Marienburg and to a lesser extent Kislev and Bretonnia. Do they control them or use them buffer states? No, they work with them for mutual protection, in the same way WE will aid Brets when they see them facing a major threat. Anything which seriously threatens Bretonnia by default threatens Athel Loren, so it makes sense to have some involvement in their affairs, but they have no desire to actively control the humans, if anything they would rather have nothing to do with them (or anyone else) if they could.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Sounds awesome to me! especially the Illithids/jellyfish people and insectoids !! can't wait. The less Tolkein-esque races the better.

I sorta want to do an Empire fishing-town called innsmouth that's made a pact with the aquatics now. WHF needs some lovecraftian-ness !

Insectoids could be cool if they are heavily tribal and all flying. Preying Mantis' could be an interesting base.

[eldargal]

Agreed, while the 'fishmen' concept sounds stupid 'ilithid jellyfish fishmen' sounds much more promising in my opinion. Still for me the real highlight of these rumours is the female Harem bodyguard warriors. So into that.:rolleyes:

[Keyoz]

it's 4th time I'm trying to post this

you overstated your argument dramatically by implying the Wood Elves controlled the Bretonnian state as a puppet.
No I didn’t- lets see the definition of a puppet state...


puppet state - a government that is appointed by and whose affairs are directed by an outside authority that may impose hardships on those governed

Now we need to define one thing - Lady of the Lake is Ariel/Isha. How do we know that?
Her sacred places are groves and lakes.
Her representative - the Fay Enchantress is an Elf.
Fay are said to live in the Loren Forest.
She doesn’t have a priesthood in a way that is traditional for human deities- instead here priestesses are Wizard, similarly to elves who believe that all magic comes from the gods.
Those wizards powers are “nature based”.
She actually manifest herself “in the flesh” to the mortals, something most gods besides Ariel/Isha and Orion/Kurnous don’t do.

Now that we have that out of the way lets look at Ariel. She is the Queen of Wood Elves – the “outside authority” from the definition.

What did she do? She crowned Gilles le Breton as the King of Bretonnia. Yes that’s right “a government that is appointed by … an outside authority”.

Not only did Ariel appoint the government, she also created a position capable of dethroning a king if he isn’t considered a proper candidate by the Wood Elves – the Fay Enchantress. Fay Enchantress also holds significant power over Bretonnian military, especially the Grail Knigths. Now we can fill the “…” in that quote - “a government that is appointed by and whose affairs are directed by an outside authority”.

Hey Keyoz but what about the “that may impose hardships on those governed” part you may ask? Well if you don’t consider kidnapping children as “hardships on those governed” than you have some really twisted morals.

Yeah totally not a puppet state.

[Wildeybeast]

Hmm, a about time GW did some female some more female soldiers, there are far too few of them.