Necron Codex Review

[Reecius]

we just fixed the link to another site check it out sorry for the delay. brought to you by frontlinegaming.org

http://www.podcastrevolution.com/file/arther66/audio/Signals_from_the_frontline_episode3.mp3

[SonicPara]

"Error (509)
This account's public links are generating too much traffic and have been temporarily disabled!"

Can't access the podcast. I tried all of the different options for listening and I was taken to the same error screen every time. The in-page flash player doesn't work either, just sits there with a broken play button.

[Reecius]

That is so frustrating! We stayed up all night making the damn thing, ahaha.

[Kawauso]

I managed to listen to it. Pretty good.

I don't get the childish delight that so many people seem to take in the 'Rod of Covenant' weapon, though. I guess people will find dick jokes pretty much anywhere...

I'm also surprised you guys are so down on Wraiths just because they don't have Reanimation Protocols. They're still jump infantry that ignore terrain, have strong Rending attacks, an upgrade that can ensure they go before virtually any other unit in the game, and more durability than a TH/SS terminator, with the same toughness and invulnerable save (granted no 2+ armour save, but that's not the main reason those terminators are so good), as well as 2 wounds...for around the same price. They seem pretty damn good to me. I'm not a competitive player, mind you, but still, they seem a really solid unit.

[Demonus]

Oh I still think they are a decent unit, even better depending on the lash whip costs, however I dont like the trend that GW put forth with this codex.

"Hey look at this shiny new thing you got! What? No dont pay attention to that man over there reposessig your car, look at the shiny thing!"

Wraiths were an OK unit. They got Rending, which was asked for, and were upped to 2 wounds, which is awesome. They were nerfed down to I2, which really sucked, but have the option to make some things I1 for more points, which kinda balances it. Then they are retconned to no longer be necrons.

2 Wounds is nice, but doesnt help when you are hit by str 8 weapons. Shrug. I guess its a toss up, 2 wounds vs RP. The wounds will once they get into combat as only PF/TH will be str 8+.

Ill give them a chance, as Ive always liked them. Shame I only own 3 of the old ones. Guess I can proxy something.

[Kawauso]

Oh I still think they are a decent unit, even better depending on the lash whip costs, however I dont like the trend that GW put forth with this codex.

"Hey look at this shiny new thing you got! What? No dont pay attention to that man over there reposessig your car, look at the shiny thing!"


I'm not sure what you're saying.
Are you complaining about GW making a push to sell new models to go with the new codex?
That's not new; they've been doing it with every codex as long as I've been playing.

On the topic of Wraiths...gaaah I want a new kit for them. The new artwork looks sweet - I'm sad to see the hunched, floating skeletons go, but the new ones look badass and I want a nice, non-metal kit to represent them!

[Reecius]

@Kawauso
Yeah, the Rod jokes are lame, but hey, we're also grown men playing with toys so I don't think the bar is too high for our sense of humor!

We have come around a bit on Wraiths. The only real issue we have with them is tough4 with no RP.With the preponderance of str8 out there, they are susceptible to ID. I think they are a lot better than first look, though.

Here is another podcast with a second look at Crons: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/08/signals-from-the-frontline-episode-4/

It also has some info about Comikaze, an event we just ran in California.

[Demonus]

No I am making a comparison to the fact that Necron players are being given new units to use (the shiny object) to distract them from the fact that their old units have been hit in the face with the nerf bat (the repossesing of said car)

Yes Death Marks and Lychgard are cool new models, but they do not distract me from the fact that Wraiths are now I2 and Monoliths are pieces of av 14 garbage.

better?

[Kawauso]

Monoliths are not garbage.

And why does it matter that Wraiths are I2 in light of all the other things they've gotten instead - including the ability to strike before enemies regardless of their initiative?

[Maelstorm]

Monoliths are not garbage.

And why does it matter that Wraiths are I2 in light of all the other things they've gotten instead - including the ability to strike before enemies regardless of their initiative?

Yes, the Monolith was nerf-raped. Armour nerfed hard, Deep strike nerfed, all weapons nerfed, it does not improve the WBB roll any more, can't pull units out of combat and the shiney new weapon has a range of d6 inches and then only from the door, actually working less than 50% of the time? WTF? Actual useful update: It can pull units from more than 18" away (rarely an issue in the old dex).

Wraiths: At 45 points each with the whip coil, they are still insta-killed by a power fist (or any other Strength 8/9/10 weapon) which would have gone last in the CC round anyway. The coil only affects a model in base to base, not the 2nd row of attackers.

[Kawauso]

I didn't say the Monolith wasn't nerfed.
It's clearly not as good now as it used to be.

If it were, it would be completely unfair, I think. The new Necron army doesn't need an unkillable tank to work as a crutch. It's still an AV14 thorn in the opponent's side for only 200 points...which is pretty damn good. Is it the most competitive thing out there? I'm not one to say - I don't play competitively. I understand that Land Raiders are not the most competitive tanks around. Does that make them bad?

Yes. Wraiths are instant-deathed by Power Fists/Thunder Hammers. So are Paladins...what's your point, exactly? They still have a 3++...which is better than any Paladin. And a Wraith unit of even 3-4 models should be able to get an entire 10-man infantry squad in BTB contact with every model from the pile-in move. Most of the time there won't -be- a second rank of attackers.

[Reecius]

Wow, there are some strong opinions in here. I find it highly amusing anyone thinks Necrons got nerfed.....

They were so bad before, and now they are very good.

Stats may have gone down, but points when down even more, making them more efficient across the board.

In our test games so far, Crons are really doing well. The Scarab/Imotek/Spider combo is brutal.

Play testing will tell, but so far we are very happily surprised that they are exceeding our expectations.

[Galadren]

My only real problem with this Codex, and it's something Matt Ward has done before, are rules where you are able to neuter your opponents units just because you can. Namely in this Codex it's "Counter Tactics" on Nemesor Zahndrekh. In Codex Blood Angels you have the Death Mask of Sanguinius on Dante. There is no Leadership check, no opposed dice roll, no game mechanic that lets you try and prevent this. Just by showing up your opponent has neutered assets you paid points for. I'm not one to ***** about broken or OP codices, but THAT kind of rule I have issues with.

[Reecius]

I'll be the last guy to support Mr. Ward, I really, really dislike most of his work, but he does have flashed of brilliance (Space Marines) and I think that despite our initial negative impression, this may be a winner of a book.

The auto-nerf thing is a bit weak, it should require skill to pull it off, not just taking the model as you pointed out.

[DrWobbles]

Here's a neat tactic: Destroyer lord attached to wraith squad. Nemmesor Zahndrekh allows them to deepstrike during opponents turn, wraiths soak up any shooting attacks, Assault during your turn with 18" range (jump infantry), whip coils allow destroyer lord to strike first.

Wraiths + Destroyer Lord = Double McNasty with extra special sauce

[DrLove42]

My only real problem with this Codex, and it's something Matt Ward has done before, are rules where you are able to neuter your opponents units just because you can. Namely in this Codex it's "Counter Tactics" on Nemesor Zahndrekh. In Codex Blood Angels you have the Death Mask of Sanguinius on Dante. There is no Leadership check, no opposed dice roll, no game mechanic that lets you try and prevent this. Just by showing up your opponent has neutered assets you paid points for. I'm not one to ***** about broken or OP codices, but THAT kind of rule I have issues with.

Agreed. Any rule that does something either automatically or on a single dice roll just annoys me

Like Zogwarts ability to turn a 275 point character into a squig on a single roll of the dice. Rules like that just annoy me. its not fun to play against

[Brass Scorpion]

I found this review of the Necron Codex interesting and less histrionic than their video from a few days ago about the background lore:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/necrons-update/

[Maelstorm]

With much trepidation, I put my old Necrons on the table using the new Codex. I really didn't expect much and was completely blown away by the outcome - this was against one of the better, most consistant players in the club. I attribute a great deal of the success to the mission and buckets of dice, not my tactics...

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=165433#post165433

[Malachi]

With much trepidation, I put my old Necrons on the table using the new Codex. I really didn't expect much and was completely blown away by the outcome - this was against one of the better, most consistant players in the club. I attribute a great deal of the success to the mission and buckets of dice, not my tactics...

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=165433#post165433

Nice game. Where does that leave all the pre-release, post-release whining by everyone? When I saw the stats of all those Necrons (and their point cost) my thought was: "Better wipe those guys out in 1 round of CC, 'cuz if you have a bad round and get stuck in, it could be forever." Sounds like exactly what happened. I think I'm going to hate Scarabs.

[Maelstorm]

I am one of the serious post-release doubters. All of the nerfed old units require massive rethinking and planning - it is in no-way the old Necrons and would get mudstomped if your tried. My Destroyer wing and the Immortal flying circus are completely nullified. The toughest part is moving forward knowing the old stats and abilities. I have to act as if the old book never existed - Throw away all of your experience with Necrons and literally restart from scratch...

The Scarabs are crazy-good. 6" move, d6" Fleet and 12" charge makes for a HUGE threat range. You will almost always get the charge (50 attacks) with a unit. The rest of the army is only required to deal with the units not tarpitted by the Scarabs. With a few Tomb Spyders adding to the scarabs swarms each turn - you can keep the tarpit going all game. Watching a single 10 unit Swarm multi-assault a Dreadnought and Rhino - and then pen on every single hit - Awesome. Wrecking a Landraider while blocking all the doors...

The Monolith needs a screen of bodies to keep the Melta at bay. The Portal of Exile is a gimmick at best: D6" range (I rolled 1" and 2" respectively on attempts to use it.) and then only a 33% chance to grab a basic marine. I tried it twice and got hit with a Chainfist for my trouble (he rolled a 3 on 2d6). Do not bank on it for anything other than a threat.

Imotekh and nightfight is great for getting the Scarabs into place to do the nasty with Mech spam of any kind. I beleive I may have gotten just 1 hit with his nightfight lightning attacks, but his one-shot Staff of the Destroyer was perfect against basic Terminators.

[Demonus]

I plan on playing a 2000pt game tonight vs DE or DE & Chaos Marines. Unfortunately, my force selection is limited to the old models, and I dont have 30 scarabs :)

Im thinking of running 2 Monoliths, a squad of Destroyers/H Destroyers, 10 Scarabs, 40 warriors, a pair of spiders, Stormlord, a Ctan and then anything else I can spare the points for, maybe 2 Tomb Spyders.

Will post how it goes.

[Maelstorm]

The only issue is "effective CC". The scarabs really rip apart vehicles/Dreadnoughts in 1 round, but are then just a neverending troop tarpit. I'd hold the Tomb spyders just out of combat and feed a replacement scarab into the fray every turn (can't create scarabs if the Tomb Spyder is in CC). Position the Spyders to keep them from getting shot if you can.

Having 70+ models on the table was a bonus, with only 2 hardpoints (Monoliths) for the enemy to focus on - it spread his return fire out enough to make it less effective. A target rich army with no real primary targets.

I'm going to swap out one unit of Scarabs (down to 20) and 1 Tomb Spyder (down to 2) to shoehorn in 6 Wraiths with whip coils paired with a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe and 2+ armour for assault/counter-assault.

With Imotekh, running under cover of night with 19"-24" assaulting Scarabs and 18" assaulting Wraiths with Strength 6 Rending and a hidden Strength 7 power weapon should be interesting. If needed the Destroyer lord can break off to assault a vehicle with Strength 7+ 2d6 pen (average 14) to open-up a vehicle the Wraiths have surrounded.

If I remember correctly, blocking all exits on a vehicle before wrecking it will insta-kill the occupants. Easily done with Scarabs and a Land Raider/Rhino/Chimera/Razorback Could probably be done to a Stormtoaster as well.

[Brymm]

Correct, only if you wreck it. And you need to surround the entire vehicle, not just the exits I believe.
If you explode it, they can still deploy in the wreck I believe.

[Tynskel]

I think the Monolith is a great unit. They changed it a lot. Yes, it lost the anti-melta. Whatever.

What people don't realize is that it can now fire the Particle whip AND call units in. What's even better, you do not have to wait for the unit to be available from reserve, like you did before.

[Necron2.0]

I'm going to swap out one unit of Scarabs (down to 20) and 1 Tomb Spyder (down to 2) to shoehorn in 6 Wraiths with whip coils paired with a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe and 2+ armour for assault/counter-assault.

I'd be cautious of this. Not so much the wraiths, but rather the Destroyer Lord. All Destroyers in general are of questionable value under this new codex, as you've noticed (why introduce new jetbike units when the Necrons already had them? Oh, right ... greed. Sorry). With the Destroyer Lord, the problem is they can no longer take a phase shifter. All the wraiths will do for it is ensure it survives shooting to make it into hand-to-hand. Once there, the whips won't do a thing for the Lord. Partly that is because the Lord's base is too big to be covered by 10 wraiths (seeing as they must move into base-to-base contact, if they can, thus pulling them off the lord). The other issue is any opponent worth his army will make darned sure the bulk of his power weapons are in the second tier, meaning they'll all strike the lord first, thus negating his 2+ armor save.

[The Twilight Fade]

Also remembering though that the destroyer lord is toughness 6 so anything short of a powerfist will have trouble scoring a wound, meaning the lord will still get to strike in most cases.

Also don't you have to try and get as many models into btb contact as possible? Surely there won't be that many models striking first unless it's a huge squad

[Demonus]

So I played a 2000pt game vs Chaos Marines on Friday with the new codex. Unfortunately, I was limited to my old models, and the Storm Lord, as they were the only things I had assembled at the moment. My list looked something like this:

Stormlord
Overlord with Shifter, Weave, Warscythe, Res Orb, MS Scarabs, Phaeron
8 x warriors (x 3)
10 x immortals
1 cryptek with lance
1 cryptek with lance and solar pulse
3 wraiths with coils
1 monolith
5 destroyers (3 heavy)
ctan with lord of fire/pyreshards
8 scarab bases
2 tomb spyders


Opponent List was:
Tzeentch Terminator Lord with D Weapon (Deep Struck)
10 Plague Marines PF, Plasmas in Rhino
10 Berserkers PW in Land Raider w/ possession
10 Marines 2 Melta, PF in Rhino
10 Marines 1 Melta, PW
1 Defiler
3 Obliterators (Deep Struck)

We played 5 objective mission, pitched battle set up. I won set up roll, set up first, putting my wraiths and ctan in some ruins on right side of board, Monolith supporting them, Imotekh + 8 warriors behind it.

8 warriors in center of board near objective

8 warriors + pulse cryptek in some ruins on left part of board, supported by 5 destroyers and Immortal Unit w/ cryptek and Overlord.

Opponent seized initiative and thanks to night fighting only had 2 vehicles fire. Defiler was out of range, Land Raider lit up Immortals with Heavy Bolter and bolter. Made all saves.

Necrons turn 1 started out great. Imotekh called down the lightning on walking unit of warriors. Wounded 4, all made saves. Seeing the Defiler threat, he called down the lightning again, striking it SIX times. Getting 4 pens and a glance. LOL. Defiler explodes in the night. Monolith shoots a rhino and blows off bolter. I manage to hit Land Raider 4 times and get 1 pen, blowing off the Heavy Bolter

The Spyders made 2 scarab bases and they careened across the field charging a rhino. 30 attacks, 17 hits. Armor reduced to 5/5/4. 17 pen rolls resulted in 1 glance and 16 pens! Opponent is now convinced necrons are broken, since his defiler is toast, and scarabs are overpowered. I roll 16 dice knowing im going to explode the thing and probably kill some scarabs however i roll ZERO 6s. LMAO.

Chaos turn 2. Imotekh calls the darkness, but the gods are not with him. Nightfighting, and lightning attacks end after 1 turn. The obliterators deep strike next to the wrecked rhino and open up with twin linked flamers. Due to them being packed together, 16 are wounded, doubled for swarm rules, and 10 scarab bases, last exactly 1 turn.... Opponent says "Hmm maybe they arent so bad afterall".

Berserkers pile out into my "moved too close to the Land Raider" Destroyers, and wipe them in cc, with just the champion.....:rolleyes: Marines from the wrecked Rhino kill 2 of my scarabs. Plague Marines pile out and light up my Immortals Unit. Plasma guy rolls a 1. Rolls armor save...1. Rolls FNP...1 hehe.

Necrons turn 2. With no scarabs to bolster, the Spyders crawl towards the tasty looking Land Raider. Surviving Wraith charges into Marines/Obliterators. Ctan assault shoots Marines killing 2 and charges in. Monolith moves up to suck Obliterators off, but is 7 inches away. Immortals light up Plague Marines as Warriors claim an objective and shoot the Berserkers. Monolith fires off several shots with its flux arcs killing a marine, wounding Oblit, and killing 2 berserkers.

Surviving Wraith gets 4 wounds on oblits, but no rending so it saves them all. The Ctan kills 2 marines and takes 1 PF wound in return.

Chaos turn 3. Still no Lord, so the berserkers bypass my immmortal unit to charge the warriors with the pulse cryptek. They rout them easily. Obliterators multi melta the Monolith, scoring 1 pen, and immobilize it. The plague marines and walking marine squad shoot up my Immortals squad killing 4, 1 gets back up and the Land Raider unloads into the Monolith scoring 2 13s...so close. The Ctan scores 4 wounds, killing the remaining marines and moves towards the Oblits.

Necron turn 3. The overlord splits off and chases the Zerkers, as his Immortals line up to gun them down. They kill 3. The spyders streak into the LR that didnt move, and wreck it easily. The monolith ports Imotekh and his warriors through, and they light up the Oblits (no wounds) however he uses his staff to kill 2 of them. Ctan fires and hits 7 times, wounds with 4, and Oblit fails 1 save (1 wounds left). Monolith fires its arcs into the berserkers (kills 1) and oblits (saved wound). Overlord charges Berserkers, mind shackles the PW guy hehe, and kills a marine. He then proceeds to kill the other 3 himself after soaking up 4 wounds. /flex

Chaos Turn 4. Lord teleports down and shoots immortals with his daemon weapon killing 2 (1 gets up) Plague Marines continue to shoot at Immortals as well as their Rhino. They drop them except Cryptek. Obliterator twin link meltas Monolith and wrecks it despite Ctans protective fire thingie.

Necron turn 4. Lone Cryptek holds objective and blows up the Rhino that killed his boys. 2 Spyders and Overlord charge into Plague Marines while Ctan and Imotekh charge into the last Oblit. Ctan kills him quickly, Spyders and Overloard kill off several Plague Marines but they hold firm with 3 left.

Chaos turn 5. The right half of the board (and 2 objectives there) are firmly in Necron controll. The lord charges into Spyders/Overlord and gets 9 attacks off. He wounds my Overlord 4 times...4 saves. His plague marines kill a spyder that had 1 wound left but are wiped out in attacks back. His lord suffers 1 wound.

Necrons turn 5. Now securing 3 objectives and the entire right side of the board the Ctan contests a fourth objective and shoots down 2 of the last 10 marines (aside from Lord). Spyder and Overlord finish off the Lord after he manages 1 wound on the Spyder. They consolidate towards the last 8 marines on the field, tucked safely in a corner, contesting the last objective.

Chaos player conceeds, losing 3-0

Review:
Wraiths did nothing and I think you need to field more than 3 (however i only own 3). Ctan seemed pretty good however he was expensive as hell and would probably die against DE in 1 volley. 4++ save only is crap.

Destroyers were a big point sink for me, but that was my fault. I should have kept them back but thought they could nail the LR.

Monolith did ok but of course was rendered close to useless in 1 round of melta fire, destroyed in the second round of melta fire and could have easily been the first. I only used it since my other heavy slots werent finished yet. I didnt realize the flux arcs were 24" now however which made it slightly better.

Immortals did ok. Their 3+ save helped them out. It also helped I had a 185pt lord in with them who was an absolute beast. 2+/3++/4+++ save was insane, and i rolled well with him.

Warriors died easily. I think I made 1 4+ save.

Lookign forward to assembling my LG and Barges to see how they do.

[Maelstorm]

Thank you for sharing the battle report. It always helps when you review what worked and what didn't for the gang!

I'll be taking 6 Wraiths with the Destroyer lord (2+ save and Warscythe) as the only way to get a decent power weapon buried into the group. I left the orb behind as it was too expensive and would only affect the Destroyer Lord.

I had to drop 1 of the Monoliths and 1 unit (10) of Scarabs to get the Wraiths and Destroyer Lord on-board.

1850:

Immotek (2+, 3+ save)
Destroyer Lord, Warscythe, S Weave (2+ save)
10 Warriors (Monolith Screen)
10 Warriors
10 Immortals
10 Immortals
6 Wraiths with 6x Whip Coils and 2x Particle Casters (for wound allocation).
10 Scarabs
10 Scarabs
1 Monolith
2 Tomb Spyders

NightFight for the first 2 turns to get Assault for the 2 units of Scarabs (100 attacks) and the Wratih/Destroyer Lord combo (24 Rending, 4 Power Weapon). I'll be running this unit Wednesday and will post another report.

[Necron2.0]

Also remembering though that the destroyer lord is toughness 6 so anything short of a powerfist will have trouble scoring a wound, meaning the lord will still get to strike in most cases.

That's true, which is why the Destroyer Lord isn't quite as useless as the Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. Still, if you can manage two power weapon equipped dudes in the second tier (assuming stats roughly equivalent to a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant), then killing the lord before he can act becomes statistically likely. If you can get three such dudes in the second tier, then it's virtually assured.


Also don't you have to try and get as many models into btb contact as possible? Surely there won't be that many models striking first unless it's a huge squad

Depends. The key words there are "as possible." I'm routinely confronted with formations that look like this:


H
D D
DSD

H = HQ
D = Dude
S = Sergeant


If the assault starts at 4" out, then the HQ will be in b2b with two of my defenders, the next two dudes will be in base contact with two more (now 6 of my dudes are tied up), and the Sergeant will form a second tier directly behind the HQ, flanked by two dudes. When I consolidate, assuming I have a unit of 10 figures or less, there's no way I can get into contact with the Sergeant.

[Maelstorm]

There should only be 1 row of marine-sized opponents opposite 6 medium based Wraiths and 1 medium based Destroyer Lord.

[Necron2.0]

Well, assault range is 6". In the scenario I gave, the HQ assaults 4". The two outrider dudes assault 5", and because they must go to the nearest unengaged enemy unit, that often means they're not in base contact with their HQ. Because the sergeant and his buds cannot get into base contact with any enemy, they go straight forward their full 6", which puts them directly behind the HQ. Now the wraiths can make their 6" reaction move, but they too must go after the closest units they can come to grips with, which means they most likely will never get to that sergeant.