Tau and Chaos Rumors

[Bigred]

via Warseer's Ghost21 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321653)

Regarding Tau:


...the demmiurg are there as are a bizzare race, the vespid get 2 slots, and the kroot get an aditional

...well if you insist, 1 hq 1 troop and possibly 1 other unit

...the preliminary rules make demiurg equal to banshees in combat?... without the scream thing though

...ok one more the demiurg ancients , think of them as cranky old wise men who saw the imperium in its infancy they had seen the eldar come n go, n thought it was another decadent empire... though they normally take hundreds of years to make a decision... the tau have something special the demiurg like

Regarding Chaos:



...the first thing i have to say is that there are 2 chaos books planed
one more renagade based the other legion based the legion one will be that, dudes who are 10000 years old kicking *** n taking names

there "may" be a inquisitor who's gone bad but really expect new guys in the renegade one. its lost and the damned influenced... but it has other options....

..."Chaos Legions as an uber-elite army, probably comparable to Grey Knights in that regard?" - YES

"and a second book that deals with Chaos Renegades, that includes Chaos Guard, or might even focus on non-marine chaos?" - YES


...little horus?.... you could be onto something

[Kawauso]

I like the sound of more races in more slots in the Tau book. Very much.
I've always wanted my Tau army to be a 'multicultural' force of sorts. I hope Gue'ves'a or however it's spelled...human auxiliaries...become part of the main book.

As for those Chaos rumours? -YES-
I'm sitting on sooo many awesome bitz and customization pieces for Thousand sons, and I can't wait to have a real army to put all of it towards.

[Anggul]

I love the idea of the demi-urg going: 'These whipper-snappers are alright'.

[DrLove42]

Love the Chaos stuff, even without being a Chaos player

Remeber IA12 (the Morros Incident) will feature Penal guard and traitor Guard again...maybe a good tie in to non-marine chaos?

As for Tau I want more awesome Tau stuff, not just other races. I want new suits and stuff, not just more aliens tagging along

[celestialatc]

I will have to get my Wordbearers out of storage!

[Wildcard]

This seems like a great chance to make legendary bloodpact available with the lead of Urlock Gaur to create one of the most notable non-chaos space marine force terrororising imperium.

This could bring on many new type of units and weapons, not yet seen in 40k TT, spidery legged tanks, new type of energy weapons (atleast in name, but why not for stats/special rules aswell)

And bring new settings / missions for one of the most notable crusades on 41st millenium: The sabbat worlds crusade.

And ofcourse, if all the rumors of chaos legions invasion with the help of renegades would be the backbone of 6th ed, this would also bring on many many new cool missions/storylines to venture :)

As for the Tau.. not too fancy for them in general, although happy that a friend in our gaming circle gets an updated dex'.. yet ofcourse, its always nice to see the fluff evoleve -> new races and backrounds always good..


..."Chaos Legions as an uber-elite army, probably comparable to Grey Knights in that regard?"

This is something that i do not understand though.. the comparison i mean.. I've never understood how GK's are regarded as an 'uber-elite army'.. Statlines being pure marine line it cant be that. They do get some fancy toys ok, but in exchance they give up stuff that other 'marines' get.. And if you play it by the model count, then if you dont take draigo and full load of paladins, i can't see how you can be that much lower on modelcount than your average marine army

Yet i would like to see legions described as scary as they ought to be.
Stat / rules wise something like:
- ws5 bs5 (from 10k years of training and warfare over the normal marines)
- s4 t4 (modified by legions allegiance)
- w1-2 (we are talking about lunatics who know how to take a hit, otherwise FNP(maybe downgraded), but somehow it feels its reserved for deathguard)
- i5 (if you can't get your reflexes and knowledge of melee up in 10 000years of training and experience, then you are just doing it wrong)
- Number of base attacks depends fully on the allegiance for the god they have pledged themselves to and the wargear they are given that might add attacks (to represent their dedication to matter).
- LD 10, fearless, something akin to atsknf to let them regroup as they like
- Sv 3+ from PA, hard to justify better or worse.

Special rules: Furious charge, legion version of atsknf, prefered enemy: imperial (yes, all of em), possibly fnp(6+), hatred: imperial (a bit like rage, i think there is a special rule for this type of behavior, but cant remember it right now)..


Problem with making legion as terrifying as is their right to be, is that gameplay wise each model would have to be pretty high priced (only by stats and rules would bring them rather high, not to mention with all the wargear). AND on the other hand, it is called A Legion for a reason, and hence there were the need and urge to break down the loyal legions into smaller chapters. But i think its generally agreeable that A Legion Astartes with 10-20models in a 2kpoint game ~kinda doesn't feel like a legion it should be :)

That is one of the most exciting aspects i am waiting from 40k, how will they come up with a reasonable, elite, true to the fluff interpretion of the most terrifyin foe in the whole 40k universe: The Legion of Chaos Astartes :)

[DrLove42]

What I don't want to see happen to the Tau is become a the "army made of races" if Necrons are now the shooty army that dies in CC.

I've already got 2 armies than need Synergy to work, please don't make Tau a third...

[LordGrise]

What I don't want to see happen to the Tau is become a the "army made of races" if Necrons are now the shooty army that dies in CC.

I've already got 2 armies than need Synergy to work, please don't make Tau a third...

I think that's pretty much inevitable. It forces new sales (army not competitive in the new ruleset w/o lots of new models) and it also fits with the Tau multi-cultural Greater Good philosophy. And if we FINALLY get a decent Gue'vasa treatment then I will cheerfully start buying IG. If it isn't in the new Tau Codex then I will start praying for a separate treatment for the Farsight Enclaves like the Sisters of Battle got. I understand there won't be a separate book, but I think an issue or two of WD could be easily justified.

Oh, and PLEASE let the current Forgeworld suits become GW standard items? I'll never be able to convince the Ministress ( is that right? ::grin:: All Respect to the Wife... ) of Finance to let me buy them otherwise...

[JxKxR]

Well the chaos stuff seems cool but I don't care for the rumors about the Tau at all. My Tau army is racially pure and I definitely wont have any stupid *** space dwarfs since I loathe the concept.

But still it's hard to be cranky when both of my armies are due for an update.

[Rissan4ever]

Hooray for non-Marine Chaos armies! I also like the idea of making the Chaos Legions super-elite like Grey Knights. It will finally make them as hellishly scary as they are in the fluff, as opposed to Marines with different symbols on them, which is basically what they are now.

As for the Tau rumors, I like the addition of more Kroot and Vespid units. Hopefully, the Vespids will get a unit that's actually useful. The current Stingwings have such a crappy gun that it's no wonder no one uses them.

I'm not sure about Demiurg. I liked the Squats, but their new incarnation sounds... I don't know. I'll wait and see.

[Defenestratus]

If Chaos rises to the level of GK's then I'm well and truly screwed in every apoc game I"ll ever play.

*sigh*

[Shas'O Bentu']

The Demiurg being equivalent to Banshees seems a bit odd, should be interesting to see an uber CC squad in a Tau Codex. I always like Squats though I have never played with the Army. When I first started playing way back when (walking uphill both ways to school for 15 miles in the snow), a buddy of mine ran around with the squats. They were an interesting army and then got eaten by Tyranids . . . it is nice to see something of the like returning to the tabletop. I like the idea of more allies for Tau as I have always viewed them as an army which uses multiple squads to make an effective fighting force. It's almost like having mini-armies in a larger army.

Chaos . . . well, I am a little confused about the legion based codex. Is this supposed to be about the original 9 traitor legions (Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Emperors Childern, Night Lords, and Iron Warriors) or are they just addressing the major 4 marked Legions? I like the separation between Renegades and Legions though. Should be interesting to see if Lost and Damned get something worthwhile to use.

[Kawauso]

Demiurg =/= Squats.

Squats were an abhuman race that was part of the Imperium, and got eaten by Tyranids.

Demiurg are a separate species. An alien race.

Yes, they are both a take on the 'space dwarf' concept, but they're not the same. Assuming that Demiurg, if they do show up in the Tau codex, will be like Squats were is not something I'd consider a safe bet.

Also, while I can certainly see Tau being an 'army of races', as that's kind of their thing, I wouldn't despair for anyone who wants a pure Tau army. Modern codices are all about choices like this...just look at GK, for example, and how they treat the Inquisition. I imagine when Tau get a new book it will be possible to go mixed, nearly full alien auxiliary and pure Tau with relatively equal ease.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

The time for my Tau returning to the field better be sooner rather than later. They were retired seen as they were a cheesy JSJ 4th Edition army, and at the time I didn't have the cash to splurge on them and improve the troops choices.

Lets hope:

HQ
Shas'o - Crisis suit and fancypants kit.
Ethereal - Some reason to take them over "shoot at this guy so I lose".
Special Characters - I reckon there'll be a Demiurg and Kroot Special Character (Anghor Prok?), Aun'Shi, O'Shovah, Shadowsun, and either a Vespid or new disciple of Puretide. Maybes even just Puretide himself. I reckon the Tau's Allies would be the ones to allow pure Demiurg/Kroot armies.

ELITE
Crisis Suits - You know the drill.
Stealth Suits - I hope they don't make an XV 35, or whatever lame progression from XV15/XV25 they might come up with, but I'd like to see them with more options.
Elite Fire Warriors - Take them away from the Ethereal, and maybes allow some odd kit here and there.
Elite non-Tau unit/ fancypants - Just to fill out and make it awkward for us to choose which units to go with, really. Possibly the Demiurg if they're described as close combat/ banshee equivalents.

TROOPS
Fire Warriors - Remove the 1+ limit for pure dwarf armies, and maybes allow for new kit. The old Tau doctrine of "use a markerlight rather than a special weapon" needs to go.
Kroot Mercs - include options for evolution, and some fluff about how the Tau are annoyed by it but dealing with it as a useful/ necessary evil.
Human Auxillaries - Why not?

FAST ATTACK
Drones - with new types. Maybes Heavy drones from IA3.
Pathfinders - With any luck, there'll be an alternative to the Devilfish, and a boost to Markerlights.
Pirhana - with new variants hoepfully, such as Tetra.
Vespid - Made useful, of course. Useful is a codeword for Finecast.
Havocs - Please include these loverly's GW.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hammerhead - Add some weapons on to the kit, Make the Hammerhead Railgun shot cool.
Skyray - Needs something doing to it, so lets hope it's gets some Ward Magic.
Sniper Drones/ Drone Turrets - Would be cool.
Broadsides - improvements couldn't hurt :P

And that probably leaves space for more Allied units, and a big kit. I reckon it would be a plane or a Knarloc.

[Pendragon38]

If Chaos rises to the level of GK's then I'm well and truly screwed in every apoc game I"ll ever play. *sigh* .......hahaha....LOL

[Wildeybeast]

As for the Tau rumors, I like the addition of more Kroot and Vespid units. Hopefully, the Vespids will get a unit that's actually useful. The current Stingwings have such a crappy gun that it's no wonder no one uses them.

Hopefully as well as new guns the vespids will also get new models that don't look like something my dog just sicked up. Then people might actually use them.

I think that Tau will become the all round army of the game, now that Tau have taken the elite shooty slot, but for that to happen they either need a stat boost or a point decrease. You simply can't field them in enough numbers to be effective at the moment. It's all well and good having S5 basic weapons but when the guys using them can't hit the broadside of a barn and there aren't many of them, then those guns aren't much use.

[isotope99]

I'd like to see fire warriors get their rapid fire range extended to say 18"

Also a boost to the ion cannon, maybe multiple small blast and AP3

On the downside, those auto cover vehicle upgrades should go or be increased in cost.

I'd definitely rather see more Tau and less 'other races'?

[Brass Scorpion]

A Dwarf by any other name is still a Squat in 40K (apologies to Shakespeare). The Demiurg were even described as "squat" in a recent BL novel by Gav Thorpe and I'm sure that's hardly a coincidence, but rather a deliberate wink and nod. GW is teasing everyone with this and background fanatics (fanboys?) can argue about it all they want, but what's old is new again the past couple years in 40K and this is a way of inserting "space dwarves" back into 40K without actually having Squat armies. What they are called or what their background is these days is incidental to the idea of reinstating Space Dwarves in 40K.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Hopefully as well as new guns the vespids will also get new models that don't look like something my dog just sicked up. Then people might actually use them.

I think that Tau will become the all round army of the game, now that Tau have taken the elite shooty slot, but for that to happen they either need a stat boost or a point decrease. You simply can't field them in enough numbers to be effective at the moment. It's all well and good having S5 basic weapons but when the guys using them can't hit the broadside of a barn and there aren't many of them, then those guns aren't much use.
I think that markerlights just need to be improved. I like the idea that they have a bit of a Musketeers vibe to them (All for one and one for Cliché!), with each unit needing to buff it's friends. Still, right now, it's a very unwieldy system. The effects are good, but in order to use it in any great quantity you need an absolute tonne of markerlights, and on top of that it only restricts what that unit can do.

I saw a suggestion here (or somewhere else) that markerlights should all be networked, in order to allow each unit to use them Signum style (like a Devastator squad). it would probably deal with the issue of speed they have (that the unit firing the markerlight can't make use of it) and by either including a very slight points deduction, or by implementing some wacky new rule, they will become a lot more usable.

One idea I had off the top of my head was to keep the same cost, but make it so that tokens aren't expended for effects. Instead, Tokens are attached to an enemy unit until the end of the shooting phase, and there's a Power from Pain style table which lists a few benefits caused by having so many tokens on them that each unit shooting can make use of. It makes sure that you won't want to aim too many markerlights at one unit, while making sure that they are more of an incentive to keep firing at a target.

After that, introduce wargear to replace the references to Target Priority, and you have a new shooty army: Based on focused fire and correct target selection, rather than being a generally elite ranged force, or a massed shooting army like Imperial Guard.

[Wildeybeast]

I think that markerlights just need to be improved. I like the idea that they have a bit of a Musketeers vibe to them (All for one and one for Cliché!), with each unit needing to buff it's friends. Still, right now, it's a very unwieldy system. The effects are good, but in order to use it in any great quantity you need an absolute tonne of markerlights, and on top of that it only restricts what that unit can do.

I saw a suggestion here (or somewhere else) that markerlights should all be networked, in order to allow each unit to use them Signum style (like a Devastator squad). it would probably deal with the issue of speed they have (that the unit firing the markerlight can't make use of it) and by either including a very slight points deduction, or by implementing some wacky new rule, they will become a lot more usable.

One idea I had off the top of my head was to keep the same cost, but make it so that tokens aren't expended for effects. Instead, Tokens are attached to an enemy unit until the end of the shooting phase, and there's a Power from Pain style table which lists a few benefits caused by having so many tokens on them that each unit shooting can make use of. It makes sure that you won't want to aim too many markerlights at one unit, while making sure that they are more of an incentive to keep firing at a target.

After that, introduce wargear to replace the references to Target Priority, and you have a new shooty army: Based on focused fire and correct target selection, rather than being a generally elite ranged force, or a massed shooting army like Imperial Guard.

I agree that Markerlights need an overhaul. They are the key to your army and the main unit that carries them is an advance scouting unit that has to take a transport and is supposed to be rapidly moving around supporting your army, yet when they move they can't fire the bloody things! I think that what needs to happen is that they should be changed from heavy to assault and have their range shortened, then given to stealth squads, meaning you can use them as they are supposed to be, fast moving advance spotters. Either that, or give them a longer range, keep them as heavy, up the BS and drop the mandatory transport so they are long range sniper style troops.

[Panxer]

I say yes to the Demiurg. However, I would LOVE an auxiliary or mercenary race very close in line with the Bogati from the last starfighter. They look cool as hell and I'd appreciate something like that as an assault race with some kind of assault vehicle allowing them to drop in like an IG Valkyrie.

I'd also like to see a weapon very similar to the ARC gun from District 9 and Mass Effect 2. This zap weapon could auto pin for a turn or something like that to give our little fish friends to get away from the deathless tide. With the new Necron codex, the Tau need something to give them a leg up- however they can get it. Make it a heavy 1 weapon with a short range or a weak weapon profile and make it only wound and auto pin on a 6+ (and make it drift) to make it fair, but we Tau need SOMETHING! These undead terminators are now more shooty than we are!

[miteyheroes]

The idea of a LatD-style Chaos Codex makes me so happy!

[Diagnosis Ninja]

I say yes to the Demiurg. However, I would LOVE an auxiliary or mercenary race very close in line with the Bogati from the last starfighter. They look cool as hell and I'd appreciate something like that as an assault race with some kind of assault vehicle allowing them to drop in like an IG Valkyrie.

I'd also like to see a weapon very similar to the ARC gun from District 9 and Mass Effect 2. This zap weapon could auto pin for a turn or something like that to give our little fish friends to get away from the deathless tide. With the new Necron codex, the Tau need something to give them a leg up- however they can get it. Make it a heavy 1 weapon with a short range or a weak weapon profile and make it only wound and auto pin on a 6+ (and make it drift) to make it fair, but we Tau need SOMETHING! These undead terminators are now more shooty than we are!
I think there's a slot in the game for some kind of morale build. The Tau are known for propaganda, enslavement, and pretty swish tech, all rolled up as the Greater Good.

Having them use bonding knives, some kind of friendly morale buffer, debuffs for enemy morale, and pinning, I reckon it could create it's own strategy.

As it is, Pinning is useless, but if they allow Tau to make use of it properly with Pulse Carbines and push it to a point where it has a fair chance of triggering, then I could see focus fire and pinning tactics working together really well.

[Rissan4ever]

I'd like to see Tau Marker Lights usable by the unit that's equipped with them without having to buy a networked upgrade. It's silly that a Fire Warrior standing right next to his squad mate with a Marker Light can't take advantage of it.

[Panxer]

Or a friggen power weapon! What, the Tau can figure out Magnetically accelerated weaponry, Networked AI, Anti-gravity skimmers, Stealth fields, and Ion weaponry, but we can't figure out how to run an electric current through a piece of steel to help disrupt and better penetrate armor?!

Please... GW, you really do think we're stupid, don't you?

[Galadren]

Or a friggen power weapon! What, the Tau can figure out Magnetically accelerated weaponry, Networked AI, Anti-gravity skimmers, Stealth fields, and Ion weaponry, but we can't figure out how to run an electric current through a piece of steel to help disrupt and better penetrate armor?!

Please... GW, you really do think we're stupid, don't you?

It makes sense that Tau would never research things like power weapons given that in their fluff they see close combat and hand to hand fighting as barbaric and disgusting.

That's why they hire mercenaries (kroot) to do it. Now, maybe some looted power weapons for kroot...

[Panxer]

It makes sense that Tau would never research things like power weapons given that in their fluff they see close combat and hand to hand fighting as barbaric and disgusting.

That's why they hire mercenaries (kroot) to do it. Now, maybe some looted power weapons for kroot...

I'd be ok with something for the Kroot or an auxiliary mercenary race, but SOMETHING! Farsight didn't see any compunction against using a power weapon to take down Orks! Not to mention 'Necessity' would certainly count as working within the range of the greater good. I'm sure Earth caste could examine battle reports and if not make a power weapon (because of their delicate sensibilities), but they certainly could figure out how to design something to defeat power weapons to make their troops more survivable since they don't have the numbers the Imperium has (as per the fluff)

Just saying. If GW won't give us a power weapon, then give us something to neutralize it. And please don't say 'shield drones' because yes, they have an invulnerable save, but for 15 pts a pop they just aren't effective against a squad of powerfists or power swords barreling down upon our fishy friends.

[DrLove42]

A save that you always get, even agaisnt power wepaons? Liekt he sound of that....

[Charistoph]

I'd be ok with something for the Kroot or an auxiliary mercenary race, but SOMETHING! Farsight didn't see any compunction against using a power weapon to take down Orks! Not to mention 'Necessity' would certainly count as working within the range of the greater good. I'm sure Earth caste could examine battle reports and if not make a power weapon (because of their delicate sensibilities), but they certainly could figure out how to design something to defeat power weapons to make their troops more survivable since they don't have the numbers the Imperium has (as per the fluff)

Just saying. If GW won't give us a power weapon, then give us something to neutralize it. And please don't say 'shield drones' because yes, they have an invulnerable save, but for 15 pts a pop they just aren't effective against a squad of powerfists or power swords barreling down upon our fishy friends.

I would not be surprised at all to find out that the Earth Caste COULD build Power Weapons. They just ask the question, "Why?" You have light plasma weapons, railguns that make Land Raiders and Monoliths cry, battlesuits that flit around the battlefield like a freakin butterfly, and you want to run forward to HIT people? That sounds like those barbaric Humans or Orks!

Don't forget Farsight is an aberration for many reasons, wanting to fight in close combat is just one of them. (Though I am all in favor of the 7 Samurai having Power Weapons as an option).

Again, Demiurg, Vespid, and Kroot, I can totally see taking Power Weapons, but for the racially Tau army, it just doesn't fly.

[Panxer]

Again, Demiurg, Vespid, and Kroot, I can totally see taking Power Weapons, but for the racially Tau army, it just doesn't fly.

Totally agreed. I don't care WHO get's the power weapons, just as long as there are some!

I agree! Tau have some really neat kit. We have the strongest gun in the game. We can kill monoliths and land raiders like it aint no thang, and we have mech suits (which really need to be T5) that can 'flit' was the expression? which yes, can be used in an extremely advantageous manner, but COME ON! Just about everyone in the game (minus IG and Orks) has a marked advantage over our space socialist fish people.

Would deep striking skimmers or a points cost reduction be too much to ask for, even foregoing the aforementioned power weapon?

[MajorWesJanson]

I predict that Devilfish Hulled vehicles will drop by about 10 points, Piranha Hulls by 5-10, but disruption pods go up by 15 points.

I can also see Tau getting something like Flechette mines as an upgrade, that does something like a lesser version of the vehicle flechette launchers. Maybe count as dangerous terrain when charging the unit?

[LordGrise]

As the players in my local stores gleefully tell me:

Vs Tau, it's close to melee as fast as possible, absolutely regardless of any circumstances whatsoever. Terrain, distance, Chaos kitten of Death, Doom, and Despair (yes, the store has a cat) it doesn't matter. Melee as soon as possible, any unit vs any unit, in melee the Tau die.

That being said, my suggested solutions, in no prticular order, are:

First, give the Kroot armor (and the armor save that goes with it) Why in hades would they not want to wear armor, pray tell? Or breed it into the clans?

Or second, close combat drones, equipped with a single pulse carbine and a melee weapon of some sort. Upgradeable to a power weapon of some kind. ::evil Calvin-n-Hobbes style grin:: and a Failsafe Detonator...

Or third, since presumably the Ethereals are capable of recognizing reality if they are exposed to it enough (and since they themselves are VERY well-trained in melee combat) TRAIN THE FIRE WARRIORS BETTER!!!!!
What, they don't like it? If an Ethereal says to like it, they'll like it. 'Nuff said.

Or fourth, more mass destruction - make the Airbursting Frag Projector an upgrade choice to the crisis suits and the FW Shas'ui.

Oh, and speaking of Failsafe Detonators? Rapid-deploy mine drones. Uh huh. Close on me now...

[Kawauso]

While I wouldn't mind some -limited- melee capability in some of the alien auxiliaries the Tau use...

I think making Tau better at melee - as a race and an army - would be absolutely the wrong way to go.

Want to keep them unique amongst 40k armies? Don't make them better at melee. Most armies can do melee at least to some degree.

Keeping Tau a super-shooty army is the way to do it, I think. I mean, people seldom try to make combat-based Guard armies, right? But no one complains that Guard tend to fall over in combat...because they're great at shooting. That's the sort of space Tau need to occupy.

I'm not saying they should play exactly like IG - obviously they shouldn't and won't, because of units like battlesuits, etc. But shooting should be how Tau win.

If they made Tau better at combat, I would be both surprised and disappointed.

[LordGrise]

While I wouldn't mind some -limited- melee capability in some of the alien auxiliaries the Tau use...

I think making Tau better at melee - as a race and an army - would be absolutely the wrong way to go.

Want to keep them unique amongst 40k armies? Don't make them better at melee. Most armies can do melee at least to some degree.

Keeping Tau a super-shooty army is the way to do it, I think. I mean, people seldom try to make combat-based Guard armies, right? But no one complains that Guard tend to fall over in combat...because they're great at shooting. That's the sort of space Tau need to occupy.

I'm not saying they should play exactly like IG - obviously they shouldn't and won't, because of units like battlesuits, etc. But shooting should be how Tau win.

If they made Tau better at combat, I would be both surprised and disappointed.

I can go with this - it would reduce the unique-ness of the army to make the core Fire Warriors more melee capable. Although I think melee drones would be fully appropriate.

But if we're going to say no to an improvement in melee, then either pinning has to improve significantly (delay the close to melee in order to whittle the bad guys down further) or we need more mass destruction so as to get the additional attrition that way. In either of these cases the drones need to be brought up to BS3, and the rank and file Fire Warriors need a path to BS4. It is ridiculous that AIs have the same aiming skills as Orcs, and it is equally ridiculous that soldiers that spend their ENTIRE LIVES learning to shoot, with computerized helmets, weapons, etc, do harm less than half the time. With the nastiest personal longarm in the game, mind you. And where, I ask for the Nth time, are the Tau snipers? Not the CENSORED SO AS NOT TO GET THE POST YANKED sniper drones, I mean the champeen Fire Warrior shooters themselves? Do the Ethereals keep them all in reserve as training cadre or something?

Or (taking another approach) correct the game-system issue the Tau labor under, make markerlights and pulse rifles assault weapons without nerfing their ranges, and let them be properly mobile - like the fluff says they're supposed to be.

[Docmani]

I think Tau would benefit greatly by being able to squadron Hammerheads. It would make them more viable, not having to use a whole Heavy Support slot.

[lattd]

Another thing give fire warriors a stand and shoot ability, seeing as every army and troop seems to have a special rule now days.

[Docrailgun]

Another thing give fire warriors a stand and shoot ability, seeing as every army and troop seems to have a special rule now days.

Ninja'd. I think this is a good idea for 40K in general.
One thing I really liked about Battlefield Evolution by Mongoose Games was the idea that units could react to other units actions. If they moved in opposing units' line of sight, said unit could shoot at them or move in response to them.
40K had overwatch once upon a time... perhaps it's time for the rule to come back?

[lattd]

Battlefield evolution was a great game, i think the best move for 40k would be to change from a you go i go to a you activate one unit the i activate one unit. As well as modifying the way point of units is worked out.

However back to these rumours, i believe pathfinders should have infiltrate, markerlights should be assualt, carbines should have a higher rate of fire than rifles and a points cost would make a world of difference.

[Wildeybeast]

As the players in my local stores gleefully tell me:

Vs Tau, it's close to melee as fast as possible, absolutely regardless of any circumstances whatsoever. Terrain, distance, Chaos kitten of Death, Doom, and Despair (yes, the store has a cat) it doesn't matter. Melee as soon as possible, any unit vs any unit, in melee the Tau die.

That being said, my suggested solutions, in no prticular order, are:

First, give the Kroot armor (and the armor save that goes with it) Why in hades would they not want to wear armor, pray tell? Or breed it into the clans?

Or second, close combat drones, equipped with a single pulse carbine and a melee weapon of some sort. Upgradeable to a power weapon of some kind. ::evil Calvin-n-Hobbes style grin:: and a Failsafe Detonator...

Or third, since presumably the Ethereals are capable of recognizing reality if they are exposed to it enough (and since they themselves are VERY well-trained in melee combat) TRAIN THE FIRE WARRIORS BETTER!!!!!
What, they don't like it? If an Ethereal says to like it, they'll like it. 'Nuff said.

Or fourth, more mass destruction - make the Airbursting Frag Projector an upgrade choice to the crisis suits and the FW Shas'ui.

Oh, and speaking of Failsafe Detonators? Rapid-deploy mine drones. Uh huh. Close on me now...

I agree that they die in combat, but I have to disagree with most of what you say.

Kroot don't wear armour because it would limit their agility, movement and stealth which is their best weapon.
I don't think CC drones are going to work. The AI in drones is fairly basic target acquisition stuff, building one for CC involves building a very sophisticated robot with highly advanced combat programmes which would be a tall order even for the Tau. And even then a basic ork will mash it in combat so it's not really worth it.
Tau are physcially similar to humans and as such are not built for combat, at least not compared to other races and no amount of training is going to even bring them close to physcially matching an ork. And why bother doing this when they can just build better guns and kill stuff from afar without the risk of getting your head ripped off.

[LordGrise]

Wildey... your troll is showing... ::grin::

[flatdice]

Sorry to shift the thread back to chaos;)

Hmmm if there are going to be two new chaos books one for uber chaos marines and chaos renegades any idea what will happen to chaos demons ?

Any one reckon Chaos will be split into three armies like their warhammer equivalent ?

[Brass Scorpion]

From what I can tell, new Chaos stuff is done and waiting for release just like the Necrons were doing for more than 2 years until this past weekend.

[lattd]

So are we going to have the 4 gods and their deamons in the legions, and then renegades, traitor guards and non legion specific chaos in the other book.

[Wildeybeast]

So are we going to have the 4 gods and their deamons in the legions, and then renegades, traitor guards and non legion specific chaos in the other book.

Well, if you read bigred's post at the very start of this thread, it seems fairly clear (as far as rumours can be).

[Tzeentch13x]

I don't get why they don't just make a single large volume book, something akin to a Imperial armour book, that contains all of Chaos...Marines, traitors, renegades, demons...etc.

They are all Chaos and would give a player many options to choose from as well as allowing for some very dynamic army builds.

GW is already overpriced with so many of their products that it would be no surprise that this would have a hefty price attached to it, but it would be the definitive Chaos codex.

My 2 cents...:D

[Wildeybeast]

I don't get why they don't just make a single large volume book, something akin to a Imperial armour book, that contains all of Chaos...Marines, traitors, renegades, demons...etc.

They are all Chaos and would give a player many options to choose from as well as allowing for some very dynamic army builds.

GW is already overpriced with so many of their products that it would be no surprise that this would have a hefty price attached to it, but it would be the definitive Chaos codex.

My 2 cents...:D

Because you can make more money by releasing two seperate books. You also have two seperate release periods, rather than one big one, which means you can spread out your income and have more predictable future revenue streams.
Also, from a gaming side, they did try combined Chaos in fantasy, but the book was felt by many to have so much stuff crammed in it didn't really do any of the armies justice and lacked a clear focus or character, so similar would happen here, unless you are releasing a massive £50 book but at that price point for a codex you are going to put a lot of people off.

[silashand]

Also, from a gaming side, they did try combined Chaos in fantasy, but the book was felt by many to have so much stuff crammed in it didn't really do any of the armies justice and lacked a clear focus or character

Funny, none of the WFB chaos players I know felt that way (including me). It was exactly the opposite. Chaos lost all of it's "chaotic" nature when you could no longer include daemons, beastmen, etc. in a "chaos" army. Worst choice they've ever made IMO.

Cheers, Gary

[Wildeybeast]

Funny, none of the WFB chaos players I know felt that way (including me). It was exactly the opposite. Chaos lost all of it's "chaotic" nature when you could no longer include daemons, beastmen, etc. in a "chaos" army. Worst choice they've ever made IMO.

Cheers, Gary

That's a fair comment. They did lose some of the chaotic nature of having a whole mishmash army (which is how a full scale Chaos invasion would fight) but it did allow for a more detailed focus on the character and background of individual armies. Which is what I suspect these rumoursare being driven by, allowing them a draw a contrast between the older legions and the more modern turncoats. And of course you get two seperate armies to flog rather than the one.

[Xabraxis]

This is a quote from someone at Whineseer:

"Crisis suits have been completely redesigned (not just recut sprues and ankle tweaks), less boxy and including a 'morphic weapon'"

Sounds like they're incorporating the in-fluff rumor that Tau developed the Spyre gangers' suits from Necromunda....

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Again, Demiurg, Vespid, and Kroot, I can totally see taking Power Weapons, but for the racially Tau army, it just doesn't fly.

Totally agreed. I don't care WHO get's the power weapons, just as long as there are some!

I agree! Tau have some really neat kit. We have the strongest gun in the game. We can kill monoliths and land raiders like it aint no thang, and we have mech suits (which really need to be T5) that can 'flit' was the expression? which yes, can be used in an extremely advantageous manner, but COME ON! Just about everyone in the game (minus IG and Orks) has a marked advantage over our space socialist fish people.

Would deep striking skimmers or a points cost reduction be too much to ask for, even foregoing the aforementioned power weapon?

The awkward moment when society is still Capatilist and "Soviet fearing" 38,000 years in the future :')

[apahllo]

im really hoping for some true wiggle room in the new chaos books. like before the new dex they were ****ing awesome. i really would like to see 2 wound termies and some really devoted troops. some real amazing options for not only lords but termies, dreads, 1k sons. seeing fully themed armies again would be awesome.

i believe this is the way they are going because they said new legions book will be more lik gk then stock sm's. i hope this rumor comes true.