Ward- Necrons are an 'elite shooty army' +fluff

[_Ian]

The Necrons are up, with them are some designer notes and touches of fluff.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat700019a&aId=18500101a

Three page expose on the Necrons.

The fluff has indeed changed. C'tan are now slaves to the Necrons themselves, yes, that's right, fluff rewritten.

It used to be the C'Tan controlling the Necrons. The Necrons would guard the C'Tan as they waited for the galaxy to spawn new life to harvest... Now the C'Tan are kept in handy containers for the Necrons lords to use if they wish.

100% retconnnnnn.



What does this mean? Well, now the lords themselves are free to do whatever their non-existent heart desires. Much like DE. Lords collect imperial relics, and apparently primarchs too. They extinguish systems, or subjugate the Emperor's rule and become masters of human worlds.

No more- KILL EVERYTHING. No more- DHARVEST THEIR SOULS.


http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat700003a&prodId=prod1380047a -- Nightbringer C'Tan *Shard*





I'm meh about it, as I haven't read the codex itself yet, but judging by this, the main driver of the Necron race has been replaced. Instead of being guided by C'Tan to kill everything, they have a more desperate, yet organized 'underground' sovereign empire, where lords can pretty much do as they please. Their new goal is to take control of the galaxy, finally achieving their ultimate goal.


EDIT: New link-

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=18500105a video of 360's of all the new models :3

[Necron2.0]

100% ret-Kaaaaahhhhnnnnn!!!!!
http://www.neogrognard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kirk-yelling-at-kahn.jpg


Fixed that for you. ;)

[_Ian]

Hahaha, thank you :D

[Tynskel]

I don't see what the problem is.
It makes sense. If the C'Tan were released, the galaxy would be destroyed.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

I'm meh about it, as I haven't read the codex itself yet, but judging by this, the main driver of the Necron race has been replaced. Instead of being guided by C'Tan to kill everything, they have a more desperate, yet organized 'underground' sovereign empire, where lords can pretty much do as they please. Their new goal is to take control of the galaxy, finally achieving their ultimate goal.

I think it's an improvement. While I did like the Quatermass-like feel of first codex, the Necrons were really just another enemy wanting to kill or harvest everything - like the Tyranids. I feel they have more personality and depth now.

[_Ian]

It is interesting to note that in the old codex, the C'Tan were attempting to totally block the Warp from realspace, because the Old Ones and their 'children' were using the power of the Warp to fight the Necrons and C'Tan. However, the suffering of the Old Ones minion races created the first daemons, the Enslaver plague started, then the C'Tan realised they had to kill everything to stop what was happening.

The fluff in the first link I gave mentions nothing of the minion races, or of the Warp weapons, or of the Warp turmoil. It just says, the C'Tan and Necrons joined forces, vanquished the Old Ones, and the Necrons revolted against the C'Tan. Then they took a 60 million year nap before restoring their empire.

That in-itself makes no sense. Why would they wait 60 million years when they could just take the galaxy then? I'm assuming that there is something in the new codex which was not mentioned there.

[Kawauso]

Well Necrons certainly never won in the assault phase before.

And they're not a horde army.

I don't see how classifying them as an 'elite shooty army' is in the wrong, or against precedents set in the past, really.

They shoot better than they assault. This seems to remain true of the army - albeit they have a lot more toys for both, now. Looks like the base initiative of the models in the army is 2, still...so shooting is going to remain the Necrons' forte. I'm sure their assaulty units will have their uses - Flayed Ones have a ton of attacks now, Lychguard can have S7 power weapons or a power weapon and 4++, etc...but shooting remains the phase where Necrons will likely do most of their damage.

...as they've always done.
And while their units are loads cheaper now, from what we understand, they're still a far cry from a horde army.

So, no foul here, as far as I'm concerned. The game has room for more than 1 or 2 shooting armies. :)

[Deadlift]

I have always played Necrons as shooty, especially over the last year or so I just found that lots of warriors + destroyers + monolith and Lord worked for me, the only unit I used as an assault unit was the scarabs which were great at bogging down units like devastators or with disruptor fields taking out tanks.

The new dex looks interesting and lots of fun.

[fuzzbuket]

so yet again 20 years of fluff has been smashed by ward's facination for goodies, baddies and one upping charecters.

FFS thor is a imperial hero he should have at least 20zillion guardsmen guarding his corpse
primarchs can kill crons with a look so why is there a pet one.,

and i always love the images of a necron army being lots of warriors with a few 'support' units, same with the guard.

now they are Uber elite we have 1 of each and APC's

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

(now founding the I HATE ward foundation)

[MaltonNecromancer]

yet again 20 years of fluff has been smashed

Terrible fluff that everyone complained about.

At length.

Replaced by a background that seems more interesting. Don't see the problem myself. All I ever heard about is how the Necron fluff was rubbish and unnecessary. Now that it's been improved I'm hearing "They Changed It Now It Sucks!" How does GW win this exactly? Oh that's right, they can't, no matter what they do. I suppose http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRO1EPItKlRJcAT5b4OTovImxHMyp5IK lkvRvHmro60HvfLLxv7N-5xlgcG



and i always love the images of a necron army being lots of warriors with a few 'support' units, same with the guard.

At the risk of stating the obvious, 40K doesn't belong to you. It belongs to all of us. You can still make your mono-unit build if you like. No-ones forcing you to use the shiny new toys.

[Morgan Darkstar]

so yet again 20 years of fluff has been smashed by ward's facination for goodies, baddies and one upping charecters.

FFS thor is a imperial hero he should have at least 20zillion guardsmen guarding his corpse
primarchs can kill crons with a look so why is there a pet one.,

and i always love the images of a necron army being lots of warriors with a few 'support' units, same with the guard.

now they are Uber elite we have 1 of each and APC's

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

(now founding the I HATE ward foundation)
You really think ward did this on his own without imput from the GW design team? sigh':rolleyes:

[_Ian]

Terrible fluff that everyone complained about.

At length.

Replaced by a background that seems more interesting. Don't see the problem myself. All I ever heard about is how the Necron fluff was rubbish and unnecessary. Now that it's been improved I'm hearing "They Changed It Now It Sucks!" How does GW win this exactly? Oh that's right, they can't, no matter what they do. I suppose http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRO1EPItKlRJcAT5b4OTovImxHMyp5IK lkvRvHmro60HvfLLxv7N-5xlgcG



At the risk of stating the obvious, 40K doesn't belong to you. It belongs to all of us. You can still make your mono-unit build if you like. No-ones forcing you to use the shiny new toys.

Oh, so you'll be alright when the new Eldar codex comes out, and Slaanesh is actually the Eldars' b***h, soul stones are actually trapped daemons that they can release on a whim and control. Oh and there are 10,000 aspects, and they each have their own Phoenix Lord. Yea, I'd digg that.

[Anggul]

I like it a lot more than the old 'We're the best at everything the only reason we aren't all curb-stomping you right now is because we all went to sleep' backstory. A lot of it does just sound like Ward ripping off bits of Eldar backstory, but hey that's a lot better than him writing his own, and despite probably being unintentional, it's quite cool for the two ancient rivals to have really similar backstory.

[Trignama]

Hey guys, Trignama here, been lurking the site for quite a bit, just decided to sign up finally.

Anyway my opinion on the change of fluff? As of now much better. The Necrons were way to bland before, and now they have been given room to be much more flexible in terms of modeling and gaming. I strongly believe that the change in fluff is much better for the Necrons and will draw the appeal of more players. Gonna have to say good job to Matt Ward on this (not something I would normally do trust me) but we will just have to see how the new rules play out.

Anyway thats my 2 cents on the matter. In a nutshell anyway.

[Necron2.0]

At the risk of stating the obvious, 40K doesn't belong to you. It belongs to all of us. You can still make your mono-unit build if you like. No-ones forcing you to use the shiny new toys.

And also at the risk of stating the obvious, it doesn't belong to you either, and you don't speak for anyone but yourself.


You really think ward did this on his own without imput from the GW design team? sigh':rolleyes:

Actually, speaking from experience and background knowledge of WotC's Star Wars, "Saga" edition RPG, you might be surprised at the extent individual contributors are left to their own devices to turn something into a chocolate mess. I myself was a bit surprised at the lack of oversight.


I have always played Necrons as shooty, especially over the last year or so I just found that lots of warriors + destroyers + monolith and Lord worked for me, the only unit I used as an assault unit was the scarabs which were great at bogging down units like devastators or with disruptor fields taking out tanks.

Same here, mostly. The only difference for me is I replace the destroyers with wraiths (at the cost of being not quite so horde-y). From the looks of things, neither one of us will be able to do that, going forward. If we want to remain "in it to win it," we'll need to completely retool our armies. THAT is the part I don't much care for.

As for fluff ... I've never given a rat's ruddy bum about fluff. I make up my own.

[Zweischneid]

I am not sure what the problem is. New background opens gazillions of options for those who would like them. But if your Necron force is still in it for the "kill-everything-that-lives-in-the-name-of-the-C'Tan", that is perfectly fine and 100% competitble with the new fluff.

I fail to see how anyone could not like it.

People who liked the old fluff; can continue to play their particular army to the old fluff.

People who didn't like the old fluff (or thought it got stale after all those years); can now build a Necron force with a new spin.

Everybody wins, nobody looses anything. What's the problem?

[Deadlift]

Same here, mostly. The only difference for me is I replace the destroyers with wraiths (at the cost of being not quite so horde-y). From the looks of things, neither one of us will be able to do that, going forward. If we want to remain "in it to win it," we'll need to completely retool our armies. THAT is the part I don't much care for.

As for fluff ... I've never given a rat's ruddy bum about fluff. I make up my own.



Oh, well I must admit im kind of jazzed about the new stuff, The Doomsday Ark looks good on paper as do some of the other units. Im a collector / painter 1st and gamer second. Im not into the hate everything new as seems to be the trend on the forums at the moment. The only models I dont like are the new Flayed ones. I liked the long Freddie Kruger fingers, not so keen on the claws.

[Defenestratus]

For everyone complaining about some Imperial hero getting his head taken by a Necron lord -

Believe me, you can't have taken it as badly as I took the death of Eldrad.

That was just wrong.

[Fellend]

Personally I just feel it's sad that necrons have gone from the slow doomdsday march to "omg we have fast apc's that are shielded!"
The rest I think is great. They had next to no personality and boring units before

[Zweischneid]

Personally I just feel it's sad that necrons have gone from the slow doomdsday march to "omg we have fast apc's that are shielded!"
The rest I think is great. They had next to no personality and boring units before

Well. Again. The option for some transport doesn't force you to use it. You want slow doomsday march? Just do it!!!

[Fellend]

Well. Again. The option for some transport doesn't force you to use it. You want slow doomsday march? Just do it!!!

You missed the point.
Everyone ELSE has fast moving transports and elite units to hide in them with quantum shielding and extra armor.

Necrons was different because they walked forward and shot untill they died. It would have been more fun to see them boosting that attribute instead of just giving necrons the same options as everyone else.
I liked that they were different and played differently, now we have another mechspam army. Yes I do get that it's for GW an economic reason but couldn't they have made vehicles that acted as mobile shield generators or mini monoliths that allowed for teleportation or something.

Instead we get another, mount up in rhinos *cough* arks and move forward at full speed!

[Duke Rich]

Was reading a bit of the 'fluff/basic rules' for Immortals and stumbled across this little sentence "extra resilience of Reanimation Protocols (dead models get back up on a 5+)"

Going by this (and this alone, I haven't read anything else about We'll be back), it seems "We'll be back" got dicked over, and had its name changed.

Also, reading the bit for Lychguard I saw this "Otherwise, stick with the mighty warscythe - Strength 7 attacks with no armour saves", by the looks of this, Warscythes are now +2 strength and ignore armour saves (Lychguard are S5 basic). Kinda cool, although it was always fun seeing the look on peoples faces when you told them their TH/SS Terminators just died.

[eldargal]

Ignoring armour saves doesn't impact invulnerable saves unless it explicitly says so. It sounds like it is just a S7 power weapon.

[Kawauso]

Necrons getting transports is not going to make them play like Marines.

Given the high cost of the Arks and the bonuses they give to reanimation, as well as the fact that ONLY Warriors can take them and the other transport (Night Scythe) is really expensive...hybrid Necron builds are likely going to be far, far more attractive than 'mech' Necron builds.

The slow horde of robots is not a strategy that looks like it's about to disappear. We'll just have to wait for the book and see how it will be altered.

[scadugenga]

For everyone complaining about some Imperial hero getting his head taken by a Necron lord -

Believe me, you can't have taken it as badly as I took the death of Eldrad.

That was just wrong.

And yet he's still used almost unilaterally.

And we're not 100% certain he's dead--there are some that believe he's just trapped in the Warp.

(But yeah, he turned into a Slaanesh-snack.)

I never liked Ulthwe' anways. ;)

[Necron_Lord]

Well, now we know who the mysterious alien race which created the tesseract labyrinths was, the Necrons!!
Read p. 26 of this month's WD and then read the Vault of Labyrinths section in the GK codex.

White Dwarf:
Thoughout the final stages of the War in Heaven, the Silent King bided his time, waiting for the moment that the C'tan were vulnerable. And in their victory, the Silent King led the Necrons in revolt, forging unimaginably powerful weapons against which even the C'tan could not stand. The C'tan could not be slain but the Silent King had planned accordingly, sundering them into thousands of fragments, each of which was bound securely within a tesseract labyrinth as though a genie in a bottle.

GK Codex
In one corner of the Sanctum Sanctorum lies a stasis vault, a time-sealed prison from which there can be no escape. Within the vault lie scores upon scores of tesseract labyrinths, fist-sized cubes of an alien design that are capable of imprisoning beings of pure energy, amongst whose ranks Daemons can be counted....The Chapter's Techmarines have been unable to duplicate the technology involved, and as the Grey Knights' relations with the mysterious creator race have deteriorated to the point of hostility, it is not unlikely these few labyrinths are the only ones the Grey Knights will ever have.

The Grey Knights used to have friendly relations with Necrons? WAAAAAARD!!

On a gaming note, I heard that the Necrons might get something like a Lash Whip, which it looks like they'll need as all their assault units are I 2. I guess we'll only have a week to wait until we can see how that low initiative weakness can be addressed. Needless to say, this codex is a million times better game play wise than the last one. I am a little disappointed that the C'tan are slaves now and the Pariahs have disappeared, but overall I am pretty satisfied.

[_Ian]

""The Grey Knights used to have friendly relations with Necrons? WAAAAAARD!!""

Not necessarily, the Old Ones could have come up with the tech, then of course the Eldar would have had it. So it's either the Eldar- possibly the dark kind, or Necrons.


I agree though, that it is sad that the Necrons' most iconic feature- massed phalanxes of warriors that just will not die- has been usurped by the mech meta.


The new-found freedom of making a Necron force I'm liking, however, I'm still not liking that new War in Heaven fluff. Ward could have kept the C'Tan intact, I agree that Necron fluff needed some fleshing out, but retconning the entire back story was really necessary?


And one thing that I've never seen mentioned. The C'Tan are beings of energy, which evolved inside stars. Is 60 million years enough time for proto star gods to form? Food for your soul.

[Necron2.0]

Im a collector / painter 1st and gamer second. Im not into the hate everything new as seems to be the trend on the forums at the moment. The only models I dont like are the new Flayed ones. I liked the long Freddie Kruger fingers, not so keen on the claws.

Again, same here ... mostly. I'm first and foremost a collector/painter too, but GW minis aren't my passion. For me, they're just to play the game. That, however, is largely immaterial. My real disappointment (it's not really a "beef") isn't so much that they introduced the new, but rather that they completely demolished the old in the process. What I was looking for was an update to the existing units and the addition of new. What we got was a complete rewrite, so that the before and after aren't even remotely the same. Again it's not about the fluff, I could care less about the fluff. Rather it's the utter transformation of the rules which has me scratching my head. For me the changes are equivalent to a codex coming out for Space Marines, in which all units were rewritten as different flavors of scout, and only Primarchs were ever true Space Marines. You can bet there'd be some howling going on if that happened. I'm not there, I'm not that passionate about it, but I can see how others would be.

For myself, I'll have to wait until I see the codex - see if I can work with it. If I see a build that intrigues me, I'll go for it. If I have to rebuild my entire army only because my current army isn't playable anymore, I won't do it. I'll just sell my Necrons. Like I said, I don't collect GW because I'm enamored with their minis, so I'm not married to any part of this.

[Deadlift]

I could care less about the fluff.

Lol sorry, whilst I agree with what your saying....well watch this at about 55 seconds :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

[Hive Mind]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/10/10748/11006825.jpg

[Nosmo75]

Anyway thats my 2 cents on the matter. In a nutshell anyway.

You keep two cents in a nutshell? On a matter? =P

[Maelstorm]

Again, same here ... mostly. I'm first and foremost a collector/painter too, but GW minis aren't my passion. For me, they're just to play the game. That, however, is largely immaterial. My real disappointment (it's not really a "beef") isn't so much that they introduced the new, but rather that they completely demolished the old in the process. What I was looking for was an update to the existing units and the addition of new. What we got was a complete rewrite, so that the before and after aren't even remotely the same. Again it's not about the fluff, I could care less about the fluff. Rather it's the utter transformation of the rules which has me scratching my head. For me the changes are equivalent to a codex coming out for Space Marines, in which all units were rewritten as different flavors of scout, and only Primarchs were ever true Space Marines. You can bet there'd be some howling going on if that happened. I'm not there, I'm not that passionate about it, but I can see how others would be.

For myself, I'll have to wait until I see the codex - see if I can work with it. If I see a build that intrigues me, I'll go for it. If I have to rebuild my entire army only because my current army isn't playable anymore, I won't do it. I'll just sell my Necrons. Like I said, I don't collect GW because I'm enamored with their minis, so I'm not married to any part of this.



I"ll agree with you 100%. I don't give a rats a$$ about the fluff. If I have to completely rebuy Necrons (currently at 14,000 points) to make them fun to play with the new Codex - I'll put the whole lot on ebay.

Here's what I see so far from the GW site:

Old Warriors: 3+ Save, 4+ WBB
New Warriors: 4+ Save, 5+ WBB (woohoo - Marine Scouts with no weapon options!)

Old Immortals: Toughness 5, 4+ WBB
New Immortals: Toughness 4, 5+ WBB - Initiative 2 (Basic Marines with 2 weapon choices and bad Init - no more move and shoot)

Old Flayers: 2 A, 3+ Save, 4+ WBB
New Flayers: 3 A, 4+ save, 5+ WBB - Initiative of 2! No power weapons, no Rending...?

Old Monolith: Living Metal ignores all Melta, Lance, Extra Dice Damage attacks + Lots of special rules.
New Monolith: Living Metal gives a saving throw against stunned or shaken. Still only 6" move, 24" weapon Range. 200 point Melta bait...

Old Necron Lord, 5 WS, 4 Init, 3 Wounds
New Necron Lord, 4 WS, 2 Init, 1 Wound

The new Necron Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield "equivelent" is a 3+4+ (instead of a 2+3+) save with a Str 7 weapon power weapon (instead of a Str 8 weapon). Not as good as a terminator in armour saves, weapons or invulnderable saves - the big bonus - an open topped transport! But heck - they make up for the shortfall with Initative 2!

[Kawauso]

I"ll agree with you 100%. I don't give a rats a$$ about the fluff. If I have to completely rebuy Necrons (currently at 14,000 points) to make them fun to play with the new Codex - I'll put the whole lot on ebay.

You won't have to re-buy your army. But the things you have won't work quite the same, which will take getting used to, and there are new units available which do new things. That's...kind of par for the course with an army that hasn't been updated in a long while.



Here's what I see so far from the GW site:

Old Warriors: 3+ Save, 4+ WBB
New Warriors: 4+ Save, 5+ WBB (woohoo - Marine Scouts with no weapon options!)

Yeah, totally like Scouts. Except they have better BS/WS. And worse I. And better LD. And their bolters auto-glance all vehicles on a 6 regardless of AV. And they get back up from -any- wound on a 5+. Which can be upgraded to a 4+. And they lack infiltrate and scout, and can take a dedicated transport that makes them even more resilient and doubles a 10-man unit's firepower. But other than that, yeah, totally like Scouts.



Old Immortals: Toughness 5, 4+ WBB
New Immortals: Toughness 4, 5+ WBB - Initiative 2 (Basic Marines with 2 weapon choices and bad Init)

Yeah...and better LD. And they get up, again, remember. They're not the old Immortals, that's for sure. Doesn't make them a bad unit now. The weapon choices they have actually seem like a really interesting decision to have to make, too.



Old Flayers: 2 A, 3+ Save, 4+ WBB
New Flayers: 3 A, 4+ save, 5+ WBB - Initiative of 2! No power weapons, no Rending...?

Nope. Looks like a CC unit that tries to win through volume of attacks. Not exactly new. The I2 is a handicap, to be sure...but it seems like an interesting combination altogether, doesn't it? They are unique in that they can put out a lot of attacks and are quite durable. The closest comparison would be...Assault Marines, maybe. Except they have more attacks, and instead of being jump infantry they're infiltrating/outflanking. And they're cheaper, too. They clearly aren't meant to take on dedicated assault units, but rather beat up units that have no business being in an assault. At least they can actually -fight- now.



Old Monolith: Living Metal ignores all Melta, Lance, Extra Dice Damage attacks + Lots of special rules.
New Monolith: Living Metal gives a saving throw against stunned or shaken. Still only 6" move, 24" weapon Range. 200 point Melta bait...

I can understand your concern with the change. I was worried when I found out about it, too. But you know what? The old Living Metal rule was a bit much...
How many armies out there rely entirely on S8 to go after vehicles? A lot. AV14 is tough enough for a lot of armies that don't have access to tons of melta. The new Monolith will take some getting used to, for sure, but it's cheaper now, and it still has a lot to offer. I wouldn't discount it just because meltas and lances can actually scare it now.



Old Necron Lord, 5 WS, 4 Init, 3 Wounds
New Necron Lord, 4 WS, 2 Init, 1 Wound


Yep. The old lord was a 'true' HQ character. The new one is a force multiplier and part of a unit. So...looking at stats alone isn't really a fair comparison.



The new Necron Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield "equivelent" is a 3+4+ (instead of a 2+3+) save with a Str 7 weapon power weapon (instead of a Str 8 weapon). Not as good as a terminator in armour saves, weapons or invulnderable saves - the big bonus - an open topped transport! But heck - they make up for the shortfall with Initative 2!

Yes, it's a 4++. On a unit that can get back up. And is T5. Would you really have preferred a cut-and-paste assault terminator rehash?
They're not trying to be assault terminators.
They're trying to be a different unit for a different army.
How effective they are remains to be seen in the context of the army as a whole.

I'm sorry if my dissection of your comment was a little acidic...
But your post has a of 'sky is falling' mentality that I find really annoying...and it's clear you're not looking at the whole picture.

Heck, no one is. The codex isn't even out yet.
Just relax, and wait for the book. I'm sure our existing 'cron armies will be fine, and will have a bunch of new toys to play with.

[Maelstorm]

I'm sorry if my dissection of your comment was a little acidic...
But your post has a of 'sky is falling' mentality that I find really annoying...and it's clear you're not looking at the whole picture.

Heck, no one is. The codex isn't even out yet.
Just relax, and wait for the book. I'm sure our existing 'cron armies will be fine, and will have a bunch of new toys to play with.


Yes, just a bit acidic. I'm a dedicated, hard-core Necron Player with a large investement in Necron forces. I'd prefer to hear the thoughts of regular Necron players, not just the GW fanboy bandwagon folks looking in from the outside - Ooooh shiny! Everything GW does is special, balanced and perfect!

The Necron stats are from the GW website.

Yes, the poor monolith has been raped - for a grand savings of 35 points. The raping spills over onto the Gauss Pylon as well...

A 5+ WBB isn't that special - Blood Angels can take FNP in how many units, 9 or 10? And yes even, Vanilla Marines get a dedicated transport for their scouts - along with a range of heavy weapons, power weapons, teleport Homers, higher initiative, etc...

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

If it's true that Ward wrote into the fluff that some Necron carries the skull of Thor, then that again contradicts all previous fluff ever written about him.

Sebastion Thor died at the age of 112 on Terra, where a new wing to the Mausoleum of Rememberance was built to contain his sarcophagus. Now please tell me how some Necron could walk in past all the gaurds, servitor gun drones, and the oh so million pilgrims that go to see each year (2769 people per day) or the countless Ministorium priests that chant his name....
If its true ward screwed up the fluff yet again they should really only let him near the rules and ban him from fluff.
Or the supposed rumour to do with a Primarch??? which one??

As for the rules, i don't play them, but am looking forward to seeing how they fare compared to the old codex.

[Necron_Lord]

Yes, just a bit acidic. I'm a dedicated, hard-core Necron Player with a large investement in Necron forces. I'd prefer to hear the thoughts of regular Necron players, not just the GW fanboy bandwagon folks looking in from the outside - Ooooh shiny! Everything GW does is special, balanced and perfect!

The Necron stats are from the GW website.

Yes, the poor monolith has been raped - for a grand savings of 35 points. The raping spills over onto the Gauss Pylon as well...

A 5+ WBB isn't that special - Blood Angels can take FNP in how many units, 9 or 10? And yes even, Vanilla Marines get a dedicated transport for their scouts - along with a range of heavy weapons, power weapons, teleport Homers, higher initiative, etc...

I think that this codex is going to work with synergies, so just looking at stat lines won't give the whole picture. Imotekh the Stormlord can make Night Fight last after the first round thus cutting down on shooting casualties they will receive. Ghost Arks and Tomb Spyders can generate Warriors and Canoptek Scarabs. That is pretty good. Monoliths can move more than 6" now, so they are more mobile and have the Infinity Gate as well.

Crypteks, Shards of the C'tan, and ICs are a source of special abilities which will require the most examination and we don't know enough about the abilities and their cost to make any decisions yet.

The Catacomb Command Barge sounds good as it can move 24" and a unit you fly over gets attacked 3 times where the Necron Overlord hits on a 4+ and hits vehicles on the rear armor. He will have S 5 minimum and probably will have wargear to make it go higher. Oh yeah, NO COVER SAVES against these attacks! As an extra bonus, if he rolls '6' to wound, the Necron players gets to allocate the wound. Not too shabby as a 'worthless bonus'. The kit comes with a Necron Overlord and a base, so if you decide to use the kit as an Annihilation Barge you get a 'free' Necron Overlord.

The Doomsday Ark has a weapon that is 72" S 9 AP 1 Large Blast which is cool. Canoptek Scarabs can reduce the Armor Values of vehicles on hits, so they are a great unit to weaken transport walls before the Necron horde comes in range. Tomb Spyders generate Scarabs to existing Scarab units now, which is better. They can also repair vehicles like Techmarines.

The only thing which got me upset was what happened to Destroyers. I have 15 of them and can only use 9 in a non-Apocalypse game. The number of shots got reduced to 2 but the AP is better and they're 10 points cheaper. Oh yeah, they are jump infantry now so they can't Turbo Boost. Pariahs disappearing was lame, but I'm going to use mine as Lychguard with Warscythes.

As for me, I'm pretty excited as I always wanted to do Necron horde (on occasion anyway) and now I can! I have 52 Warriors painted and would use 30 tops (mostly 20) in 5e, now I have a reason to put the 28 I have on the sprue together.

Here is what I want for starters:
Immotekh the Stormlod (Night Fight shenanigans and Lightning Attack)
Trazyn the Infinite (IC who can claim objectives and very hard to kill - Sounds fun!)
Necron Overlord (Looks cool!)
Lychguard with Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield (2 Boxes)
Ghost Ark (3)
Doomsday Ark (2)
Catacomb Command Barge (1)
Necron Crypteks (3)
Immortals (2 boxes) to try out the Tesla Carbines

I want the 3 Ghost Arks because they look cool and I personally want to. I have all the old stuff and just want to get these new units because they look viable AND fun! I played the old codex enough that I want something new and the new codex will give me that chance. I'm excited!

[Kawauso]

Yes, just a bit acidic. I'm a dedicated, hard-core Necron Player with a large investement in Necron forces. I'd prefer to hear the thoughts of regular Necron players, not just the GW fanboy bandwagon folks looking in from the outside - Ooooh shiny! Everything GW does is special, balanced and perfect!

The Necron stats are from the GW website.

Yes, the poor monolith has been raped - for a grand savings of 35 points. The raping spills over onto the Gauss Pylon as well...

A 5+ WBB isn't that special - Blood Angels can take FNP in how many units, 9 or 10? And yes even, Vanilla Marines get a dedicated transport for their scouts - along with a range of heavy weapons, power weapons, teleport Homers, higher initiative, etc...

Necrons are my first army. I'm not a bandwagoner, thank you very much. I know the stats are from the GW website. I've seen them.

As for the Monolith being 'raped'...come on. It's not that bad. The old rule was so good that the old codex was able to, in many situations, use it as a crutch. While I'm as sad to see it go as anyone, I'm really not that surprised considering how much is being updated around the army.

The 5+ repair roll can be updgraded to 4+. And guess what? It's better than FNP. It has no restrictions. The BA FNP is a bubble, whereas the Res Orb upgrade simply affects a unit its in. Not quite the same. Don't forget that there are also things in the army like the Ghost Ark that can further increase the resilience of units by straight up returning models from the dead.

Are you suggesting the army should have been made more like BA? Why wouldn't you, in that case, just play BA? Every codex in 5th has thus far managed to carve out its own niche as far as play style goes, and it looks like the new Necron 'dex is no different.

While there are certainly changes that are going to take a bit of getting used to, the army is looking like it will shape up to be truly unique now as well as functional. Again, it's hard to say without the actual codex and some real games under anyone's belt. I don't understand how you can manage to view all these changes so negatively is all, I guess, unless you're just not looking at all the rumours in the context of the army as a whole.

Again, no one can say anything for sure until the codex comes out...but it really doesn't look all that bad. :P

[Necron2.0]

I think that this codex is going to work with synergies ....

Speaking for myself (and maybe Maelstorm?), that's why I say I need to see the codex, and then do a price/effectiveness comparison against other recent codices, such as DE. If I find that my current army (at the new adjusted costs) facing off against a comparable current army is repeatedly and soundly mud-stomped ... yeah, I'll be pissed. Nobody wants to see their investment over several years be completely erased at someone's whim.

The other issue I'm seeing is there are several elite units being touted as CC specialists, but I'm hearing their initiative is 2. Supposedly that's an army-wide initiative limitation. That doesn't make any sense on three levels - thematic, realistic and playability.

On the thematic level, there's nothing that says undead need be slow, even if they are robots. Dawn of the Dead showed us that for zombies, and Terminator II showed us that for robots. If you build a robot specifically for close combat, unless you're a complete moron you'll make it as good as you can, which means as fast as possible.

In terms of realism, the flesh is weak. I can make any machine exceed organic physical limitations simply by beefing up its power supply. I can do even better if I specifically design the machine to exceed the organic, and that is with today's technology. Imagine what I could do if my technical knowledge exceeded galactic norms by eons.

Lastly, and most importantly, playability ... who here enjoys watching their army get slaughtered before it can even do anything? Who here enjoys watching their units repetitively get caught in a sweeping advance? If that is an army's lot, why would you ever play such a thing? I don't know about you, but I play to have fun. I do not give one rat's bleeding red bunghole about GW's financial future, or even its survival. I owe them nothing. If I cannot enjoy the game, I'm not going to play it. If a given unit in a Codex can only offer me relentless frustration, I'm not going to buy the models. Simple.

But again, I stress, I have to see the Codex first. That will be the deciding factor for me.

[Maelstorm]

I completely agree with Necron2.0.

Every original unit seems to have been smacked with the nerf bat, forcing current players to buy a parking lot full of new mech and new units.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the new codex - But I'm not holding my breath that I'll want to continue with Necrons going forward.

[Uncle Nutsy]

you mean I DON'T have to spend three turns trying to kill off one large unit of necrons and hoping the other doesn't table me?

[Deadlift]

If the Necrons as described by Mr Ward are "the elite shooty army" what direction will the Tau codex take ? I know IG, SW and BA can all bring some tasty shooting to the table, but it's not their only trick. I always thought Tau were the race to be beaten in the long-range warfare game. Could be it's now Necrons ?
So what will Tau bring that's different ?

[Maelstorm]

No worries about the Tau's fate, this is a Necron thread. :-)

[Necron_Lord]

Speaking for myself (and maybe Maelstorm?), that's why I say I need to see the codex, and then do a price/effectiveness comparison against other recent codices, such as DE. If I find that my current army (at the new adjusted costs) facing off against a comparable current army is repeatedly and soundly mud-stomped ... yeah, I'll be pissed. Nobody wants to see their investment over several years be completely erased at someone's whim.

Lastly, and most importantly, playability ... who here enjoys watching their army get slaughtered before it can even do anything? Who here enjoys watching their units repetitively get caught in a sweeping advance? If that is an army's lot, why would you ever play such a thing? I don't know about you, but I play to have fun. I do not give one rat's bleeding red bunghole about GW's financial future, or even its survival. I owe them nothing. If I cannot enjoy the game, I'm not going to play it. If a given unit in a Codex can only offer me relentless frustration, I'm not going to buy the models. Simple.

But again, I stress, I have to see the Codex first. That will be the deciding factor for me.



I felt the same way when 5e came around. I had invested quite a bit of money in an army whose whole mechanics got hosed by 5e rule changes. The last couple years I have had to do a lot of Destroyer spam and sometimes dual Monolith to survive against the lists I was going up against and the options at each slot were really slim. Elites? Immortals were the only unit worth a damn. Troops? I could only take Warriors. Fast Attack was the only slot where one had a choice as all three were viable. Wraiths would more often than not lose out because they only had 3 W as a unit and were only 9 points cheaper than a Destroyer. When one has to make lots of saves it is only too easy to roll 3+ '1's and '2's.

Bottom line this codex looks a lot better than the old one if only because phase out is gone, so I really don't understand the pessimism from you and Maelstrom. If he has 14,000 points, he should have no problem fielding Immortals as Troops. Supposedly there will be weapons options for Wraiths and Tomb Spyders which might require some converting, but that supposedly is where the I 2 weakness is addressed as there is supposedly something like 'lash whips' one can get. Regarding Flayed Ones they weren't so hot before and have worse stats now, but they will be cheaper. I think they will be like Mandrakes, an OK harassment unit for some armies which just won't find its way on competitive lists.

I think that this codex will be decent but won't curb stomp any of the top tier codices. It will probably play differently than the old one so everyone will have to learn the new codex and its potential. When the codex is understood, I think people will only get continually curb stomped if they are poor players. I don't get a bad vibe about this codex at all. There might be some fail units (lots of armies have one or a couple of them) but overall I think it will be interesting and an improvement. I will have to read the codex to be certain, but I think this will be nowhere as bad as the Tyranids codex.

[Maelstorm]

Please excuise me while I set up my soap box:

By reducing the unit size of a Destroyer squad from 5 to 3 and reducing the number of shots per model from 3 to 2 a squad of destroyers now have 6 shots instead of 15, and are VERY easily wiped-out with only 3 wounds for the whole 120 point squad. Quite a shame when I have 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy Destgroyers sitting on the shelf. Fail.

Deep Striking Flayed Ones with 4+ armour (Scout armour), no power weapons and an initiative of 2 as an elite close combat unit? WTF? Fail. Can't wait to assault those pesky longfangs, only to get wiped-out first before a single attack is made.

Army-wide Initiative of 2? WTF?? Fail Bonus! Can't wait to get mudstomped and swept in Close Combat by... everything in the game! Woohoo!

Once again we're back to ranged keep-away to make the army playable. Only buying a parking-lot full of the new $35-$55 mech will make them usefull. Mech-spam for Necrons - Hurrah! Might as well go back to playing lazy flip-a-switch Mech spam with any Imperial/Marine army.

The only thing I look forward to so far in the Codex? Rolling 30 Scarabs out onto the table instead of 15 Destroyers. Oops wait, more Initiative 2 and Close Combat for Necrons... Fail

What he meant by "Elite shooty army" was "they will suck wind at close combat and have a couple of special ranged weapons - that will be improved upon and written into the next Marine codex".

I'll put the soap box away, for now.

[Kawauso]

That's one way of looking at it.

From what we know of the codex, to me it looks like Necrons have to soften targets up with shooting before committing to an assault.

Flayed Ones don't look like an elite combat unit, and I'm not sure they're trying to be portrayed as such. And Deep Strike won't be a good option for them most of the time - when's the last time you've seen a non-BA army Deep Strike a unit of Assault Marines? It's nice that the option is there, but most of the time it's better not to. Just like most of the time I imagine it will be better to infiltrate or outflank Flayed Ones.

A unit of 10 of them will run at 130 points. That's 60 points cheaper than a 10-man Assault Marine unit already. That's only a little more than most 5-man marine units cost. So let's say you've whittled a unit down to 6 from shooting, or it's a small unit to begin with like Long Fangs. Let's say you use infiltrate/outflank to the best of your ability, and cover, etc. to get into combat with said unit. There are a lot of variables that are being discounted here, but we have to be simple for the sake of example. 10 Flayed Ones charge 6 marines. Let's say the marine unit has a hidden power fist, because marines like that. So 5 marines go first. 2.5 hits...we'll round that up to 3. 1.5 wounds...we'll round that up to 2. Which is pretty generous in this case. 1 Necron goes down (50% armour save odds on 2 wounds). Then the 9 Flayed Ones attack. 36 attacks. 18 hits. 9 wounds. 3 marines down. The sergeant goes. 1 hit. Likely 1 wound, killing another Necron. The Flayed Ones have won the combat. Not by a lot, mind you, but they've won. They have a chance of doing some more No Retreat wounds to the marines. They will likely grind down the marines over the next turn or two of combat. By not winning the combat in a landslide off the charge, they get to avoid a turn of being shot at after they consolidate.

Those are the sort of combats you'll be wanting to get Flayed Ones into. They're not an elite CC unit - don't throw them at assault terminators or the like.

Necrons aren't going to faceroll people in close combat - has the army ever really been about doing that to begin with? Their shooting has always been where the army shines (outside of their durability, that is). That...hasn't really changed, from the look of the new codex. How we'll go about shooting (and assaulting softened targets) will have changed, surely. This is what happens when a codex gets updated. Tactics change. Were you hoping for an army update that was just more of the same?

I agree that it sucks that Destroyer squads are smaller now...
I know my buddy who plays GK wasn't happy when halberds and swords became actual different pieces of wargear when GK got updated. It sucked that he had to change his models to reflect WYSIWYG.
There are growing pains that come with every update...it's not a perfect system. GW is far from perfect. And of course they are going to push you to buy new models...

I guess I'm just baffled that you're so indignant about this change. What did you think was going to happen when Necrons finally got an update, exactly?

Ah well...have fun with your soapbox.

I'll have fun checking out the new book when it drops - and I'm pretty confident I'll have fun playing with my 'crons again, too! Even though I'll have to buy a few new units (well, I won't -have- to...I just want some of those new shiny things, damnit)! :P

[Shas'O Bentu']

The issue I have with Flayed Ones isn't so much their ability in close combat, it is the competition they are up against vs. the rest of the force. A necron warrior is the same cost as a flayed one with the same stat line. I don't see the point in taking a CC unit that isn't great (decent though) at close combat that can not score over a unit that can shoot from relative safety that can score. When it comes down to it, having a spare 130 points means I am taking another unit of 10 warriors.

The issue with Destroyers is nearly the same but they are in competition vs the other FA choices as well as total army points. The first thing I will want to do is put one unit of Heavy Destroyers in for mobile anti tank then I want my second choice to be Scarabs. Now I am contending them vs the rest of my army points. Is a 3 man unit of destroyers really worth it. The old Destroyers at 5 models vs the new Destroyers at 3 models have the same kill ratio vs MEQ in the open at a lower point cost. Comparing the 2 against non-MEQ, the old destroyers win out hands down. Plus, you have to add in the fact that the cover saves are currently extremely generous and you won't always get the MEQ in the open. I find it again hard for them to have a place in my force. Granted, this is my opinion and may not be the same way someone else views it.

I am not going to go on a soap box and say these options suck and we need to string up Ward for making it this way as I can see some players using those units and finding good and interesting tactics with them. Me, personally, I will have to toy around with the Codex a bit when it comes out before I go onto a full on Nerd Rage.

[Ghost of War]

Please excuise me while I set up my soap box:

By reducing the unit size of a Destroyer squad from 5 to 3 and reducing the number of shots per model from 3 to 2 a squad of destroyers now have 6 shots instead of 15, and are VERY easily wiped-out with only 3 wounds for the whole 120 point squad. Quite a shame when I have 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy Destgroyers sitting on the shelf. Fail.

Deep Striking Flayed Ones with 4+ armour (Scout armour), no power weapons and an initiative of 2 as an elite close combat unit? WTF? Fail. Can't wait to assault those pesky longfangs, only to get wiped-out first before a single attack is made.

Army-wide Initiative of 2? WTF?? Fail Bonus! Can't wait to get mudstomped and swept in Close Combat by... everything in the game! Woohoo!

Once again we're back to ranged keep-away to make the army playable. Only buying a parking-lot full of the new $35-$55 mech will make them usefull. Mech-spam for Necrons - Hurrah! Might as well go back to playing lazy flip-a-switch Mech spam with any Imperial/Marine army.

The only thing I look forward to so far in the Codex? Rolling 30 Scarabs out onto the table instead of 15 Destroyers. Oops wait, more Initiative 2 and Close Combat for Necrons... Fail

What he meant by "Elite shooty army" was "they will suck wind at close combat and have a couple of special ranged weapons - that will be improved upon and written into the next Marine codex".

I'll put the soap box away, for now.

Jeez man - THE BOOK ISNT EVEN OUT - Sell your Sh!t already.

I collect crons as well and I am standoffish as well. But the new models look cool, and I love to paint - so I am fine. The i2 thing is bullcrap though.. not sure why there even assault elements in the army if they blanketed them all with that.

On the bright side Maelstorm - If you find that some of your stuff is no longer to your liking. The web will be crawling with badwagoners who will want your used models. Then you can take some of that cash and grab a couple new toys and it should be a non spend.

I understand your mad - but ranting about a book that isnt even in your hands yet isnt going to do any good. It's wasted energy. Everyone needs to vent - but you did that(several times), and you did it without the codex in hand.

Just breath man.

[Deadlift]

I could be wrong but aren't the Crypteks / Lords able to join units and take wargear that will buff the units their in. We may find that there will be the option to boost I2 etc.

[Malachi]

I could be wrong but aren't the Crypteks / Lords able to join units and take wargear that will buff the units their in. We may find that there will be the option to boost I2 etc.

Indeed. Didn't we also read that Crypteks can take Res Orbs to boost the unit's "Reanimation Roll" to 4+? Now you have a unit that has an equivalent to FNP that works all the time. Here's something else many people seemed to have missed. Doesn't it say you make the "Reanimation Roll" at the end of every Phase?

That means that those Marines will shoot their Pistols and other Assault weapons, kill some Necrons, then half of them get back up before the Assault phase.

They're also Ld 10 across the board, so getting them to fail a Morale test from combat will be tougher. I think Necron players should start thinking about their CC units not as "charge forward assault" type units but more as counter-assault type units.

However, the bottom line is, yes: things that worked in the old Codex will not work the same/as well as in the new one. This has been pretty consistent for all new Codexes.

[Deadlift]

And with 7 named HQ of which we have seen 2 so far, who knows what sparkly goodness they may bring to the party.

[Trignama]

So yeah im not a Necron player, nor do I plan on being one, my brother however has playes them for years, so knowing I will be facing them often I have been keeping up on all the news. So now that my interest is verified the only statement I can make is about how shocked I am concerning cetain posts in this thread.

First off we only have bits and pieces on how anything in this new book is going to work, so we really can not make any judgements what so ever as of yet.

Second a pretty big thing GW seems to be doing with these new books is making it so that individual units can be bought to help buff up other units. So I wouldn't be surprised if crypteks worked similarily to wolf gaurd, and would possibly have options for lash whip type items so that the Inititive 2 situation with Necron combat units wont be a big issue.

Third, the necrons have always been primarily a shooting army, and it seems that some of these new units are really putting that emphasis in this new book. Deathmarks really seem like they are going to be a very good unit, but again I can only speculate.

Fourth things changed, what else would anyone expect, and there is no saying that Crons wont be able to field viable effective foot based armies, again we have to wait and see.


The White Dwarf released this month was very vague even with the battle report they had, but I could at least gather that my Templars are gonna hating having to endure their shooting phases......

[Maelstorm]

Check out the White Dwarf battle report - I believe the said that they only rolled reanimation after the shooting phase. I don't recall mention of any other time.

The new improved res orb only affects the unit it is in - with a maximum of 2 res orbs per army.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Flintstone command barge on the table (replacing the old Destroyer Lord). :D

[Ghost of War]

Well keep in mind FnP means you dont die and affect combat resolution - where Reanimation happens if you survive the onslaught and the Ld check that follows.

[Kawauso]

The new improved res orb only affects the unit it is in - with a maximum of 2 res orbs per army.


How is it a maximum of 2 per army?

Restrictions on wargear like that are very few and far between nowadays.

[Kawauso]

Fourth things changed, what else would anyone expect, and there is no saying that Crons wont be able to field viable effective foot based armies, again we have to wait and see.


Y'know, all the people moaning about being 'forced' to 'mech up' Necrons has struck me as pretty odd in that regard.

The entire army has access to a better-than FNP, and there are loads of 4+ and 3+ saves all around, and they're cheap enough that you can easily get a -lot- of bodies on the field...
And tons of their units can either deep strike or have an upgrade character added to them (Crypteks) that can allow them to re-deploy using deep strike.

And their standard infantry weapons still auto-glance vehicles on 6s, don't forget. And they'll have more of them, thanks to cheaper infantry.

I don't think that all-foot (or foot-heavy) Necron armies are going to be a problem for people who want to do them.

[Wildeybeast]

So what will Tau bring that's different ?

Being sh1t? :D Seriously, their fate is either to languish unloved for many (more) years only to get a half arsed WD codex ala Sisters, or they will get a radical new direction. I can see them becoming the Empire of the 40K universe and taking the all round role. With a few new alien allies that fulfill specialist roles and a points drop, they have the capacity to perform any battlefield role with decent troops that can do anything, but excel at nothing, leading you to build an all round balanced army that relies on decent numbers backed up by some rather nice technology and a few elite units to bash the enemy over the head.

[Kawauso]

What you just described is already in the game, though.

That's exactly what Space Marines are.

[Shas'O Bentu']

Being sh1t? :D Seriously, their fate is either to languish unloved for many (more) years only to get a half arsed WD codex ala Sisters, or they will get a radical new direction. I can see them becoming the Empire of the 40K universe and taking the all round role. With a few new alien allies that fulfill specialist roles and a points drop, they have the capacity to perform any battlefield role with decent troops that can do anything, but excel at nothing, leading you to build an all round balanced army that relies on decent numbers backed up by some rather nice technology and a few elite units to bash the enemy over the head.

I was going to reply but this is a Necron Thread and did not feel the need to bother. On to the thread topic.

As avid a Necron Player that I am, being it my secondary army, I can truthfully say that there seems to be a lot of mixed emotion on this topic. I am guilty myself of jumping the gun and have reconsidered to wait for the codex to finally arrive into my hands. I have my concerns and I do not like where the fluff has taken them but I will give it a chance in the end. I have already came up with the thought of not having to Mech a Necron force, we don't have to but it would be extremely useful to take an Ark or two. Again, those who are naysayers, please wait for the codex before you write it all off and those of you who are enthusiastic fans of it, I hope that it serves you well when you get it. Good luck to us all.

[Kawauso]

I know it's premature and all, but I'm excited trying to come up with list possibilities from what little info we have to glean of the new 'dex.

Of course it's nothing that can be taken too seriously without the book available for reference, but it's still fun.

I don't know how viable it will be, but I'm seriously taken with the idea of building a 2000-point list around a base of 50 Warriors (models I already have) and 3 Ghost Arks - 3 groups of 10 (with transports) and 1 of 20 (on foot). It seems like a really solid base of troops and comes in at 995 points...hard to say how much wiggle room that leaves for serious support, but a notion I find exciting nonetheless.