Eldar Wraithseer in practice

[Defenestratus]

I bought the wraithseer because, well, for two reasons:

1) Its a beautiful model IMO and
2) Its freakin Wraithlord psyker! How could it not be badass?

Now that I'm actually trying to formulate a good way to USE him in a game, his utility isn't abundantly clear to me.

Off the bat, It looks like I'll need to babysit him with a regular farseer fortuning him to keep away all the nasty plasma, melta and missiles that will be headed his way. The overall issue with wraithlords being not cost effective in the world of dime-a-dozen missile launchers and melta weapons is only marginally mitigated by his 5+ save. The FNP spell he can cast won't help him except in the cases of missile launchers.

This guy is a close combat monster. Str10 rerolling to hit with 2D6 armor penetration (+10) and +1 on the damage chart -- then is it worth it to give him the D-Cannon if he should just be casting fleet on himself every round and charging forth?

Has anyone used him as a D-cannon platform successfully? My thoughts on the D-cannon itself are mixed but the chance to put it on a mobile platform for once makes me salivate.

Has anyone used the wraithseer in yet successfully? If so what "role" or tactical avenue did you use for him?

Thanks

[whitestar333]

Since the Wraithseer came out I have been VERY tempted to buy him. I had a large Eldar force for quite some time and ended up selling off most of it during 5th edition. The only Eldar stuff I held onto, however, was my 20 wraithguard, some harlequins, and 3 wraithlords. The Wraithseer is PERFECT for my army!

Although he is not to be trifled with in close combat, I think his other abilities shine more greatly - especially in light of what he's likely to face across the table. While Wraith constructs are very tough against normal weapons, low AP weapons and powerfists/thunderhammers are utterly devastating. I actually see him using Deliverance more often, just because you'll see lots of AP 2/3 weapons out there these days (especially missiles) and Deliverance will boost the survivability of your expensive wraithguard units, just in case they end up losing one of those expensive wounds.

I have to agree that the D-cannon seems very pricey, especially if you're running with a wraith-force (which you should if you're taking the seer) because you're likely to have the tools you need to crack armor anyway. Wraithcannons are DEVASTATING to any vehicle, and a D-Cannon is superfluous and just paints a bigger bulls-eye on the Wraithseer.

[Defenestratus]

Unfortunately the Deliverance power will only help against krak missiles. Anything else that I can think of would bypass it as its AP1,2.

Relying on wraithcannons to do Anti tank work while foot slogging is a bit of a gamble IMO. They tend to get tied up in CC more often than not, where the wraithcannons are worthless. Surely the wraithseer would be helpful in this regard.

The only way I see this list working is a full suite of 20 WG, 2 wraithlords, the wraithseer and a farseer. Will likely need some counter assault elements and a fireprism in the last Heavy Support slot.

[whitestar333]

Unfortunately the Deliverance power will only help against krak missiles. Anything else that I can think of would bypass it as its AP1,2.

Nope, not true. Read the rule again. It's not FNP. It's more like bionics - hence why it's really useful.

I will agree that the wraithcannons are easily tied-up, it only takes a couple to really give a vehicle a bad day and those vehicles need to get close if they plan on delivering their cargo (which is why a wraithlord or two nearby is nice for a counter-charge).

Is the army perfect? No. It certainly has weaknesses. But it's strengths are really hilarious against the right armies. Hell, I've gone against a foot-horde of Dark Eldar and was still able to do something. Yes, even with all of those poisoned weapons.

[Defenestratus]

I don't know where you're reading the rule from, but in IA:Apoc version 2 it says:

"That model (or models) gains the Feel No Pain special rule until the beginning of the next Eldar player turn."

Which means AP1,2 would ignore it.

(Ahh I see you're reading from the experimental rules. They changed that in the book to FNP - which is nice but also quite silly since the things that Wraithguard hate the most are plasma guns/cannons)

[DrLove42]

I've got one, and haven't used him on the table yet.

He needs a list written around him, seeing as he still needs another HQ. With his points cost means dropping somehting elsewhere.

I do think Deliverance has uses...but mostly only on either Wraithguard against standard infantry (T5, 3+ Armour and FNP? Goodluck killing that - great in cover!) or on a Lord against a Dark Eldar Posion Heavy Army.

Giving a combat wraithlord fleet would be a nasty suprise for someone

His invuln is a bit of a token gesture, he does still need protecting

As for the D cannon i'd say use it. Its a highly effective anti-everything weapon and is heavily useful on him because of his higer BS. If you wanted to use that hgiher BS on say a Lance, you get more range, but lose a lot of whack.

And as mentioned....hes a beast in combat with vehicles. Even if it moves flatout hes got a good chance of wrecking it.

[Anggul]

I love the look of it, and I'm definitely buying one for my new Ulthwe army, but until some decent rules are released I'm just gonna count it as a Wraithlord with wraithsword and bright lance. I'll choose 2 flamers as it's option but not actually put any on it, so it can be him casting a variation of destructor or something.

[Da Gargoyle]

No body, not even GW has mentioned a Wraithseer here in Oz, tell me more? What stat's and points cost? what publication? Is an HQ?

I gamed at a new venue last Friday. A pub in the city where the lads have set up in a room. The pub rents the room and sells beer, or your preferred option. Pub food on order and I gamed until 2am. O happy days. A Wraithseer might be the option on Grey Knights of which there were a plentiful supply.

[Defenestratus]

No body, not even GW has mentioned a Wraithseer here in Oz, tell me more? What stat's and points cost? what publication? Is an HQ?

I gamed at a new venue last Friday. A pub in the city where the lads have set up in a room. The pub rents the room and sells beer, or your preferred option. Pub food on order and I gamed until 2am. O happy days. A Wraithseer might be the option on Grey Knights of which there were a plentiful supply.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-WRAITHSEER.html

Official rules are in IA:Apoc 2nd edition.

The pose they gave him in the official photo was rather static and boring.

I went for something a bit more dramatic.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2A9WyPriKSc/Tq3UWuwmJDI/AAAAAAAARiA/uaKzU5hSydQ/s816/11%2B-%2B2

[Defenestratus]

So I went ahead and put together the following list. I guess its more fluffy than effective really since there's effectively very little counter assault elements - but this is along the lines of what I was thinking about. (Note that the points are 12 points over in the list but in reality with IA:A2ed its actually 8 points under since both the Dcannon on the wraithseer's shoulder and the Warp Hunter are 10 points cheaper than what they are in the yet to be updated 40k Datafile for AB.)
2000 Pts - Eldar Roster - 2k Wraithseer list

Total Roster Cost: 2012

HQ: Wraithseer (IA) (1#, 235 pts)
. . 1 Wraithseer (IA), 235 pts = (base cost 185) + D-cannon 50

HQ: Farseer (1#, 165 pts)
. . 1 Farseer, 165 pts = (base cost 55 + Runes of Warding 15 + Spirit Stones 20) + Doom 25 + Fortune 30 + Guide 20

Troops: Wraithguard (11#, 396 pts)
. . 10 Wraithguard, 350 pts = 10 * 35
. . . . 1 Spiritseer (Warlock), 46 pts = (base cost 25 + Conceal 15 + Spiritseer Upgrade 6)

Troops: Wraithguard (11#, 396 pts)
. . 10 Wraithguard, 350 pts = 10 * 35
. . . . 1 Spiritseer (Warlock), 46 pts = (base cost 25 + Conceal 15 + Spiritseer Upgrade 6)

Heavy Support: Wraithlord (1#, 140 pts)
. . 1 Wraithlord, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Wraithsword 10) + Bright Lance 40

Heavy Support: Wraithlord (1#, 140 pts)
. . 1 Wraithlord, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Wraithsword 10) + Bright Lance 40

Heavy Support: Warp Hunter (IA) (1#, 180 pts)
. . 1 Warp Hunter (IA), 180 pts = (base cost 125 + Holo-Field 35 + Spirit Stones 10) + Shuriken Cannon 10

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts = 5 * 24 (base cost 19 + Pathfinders 5)

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts = 5 * 24 (base cost 19 + Pathfinders 5)

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts = 5 * 24 (base cost 19 + Pathfinders 5)

Validation Report:
b-2. Apocalypse Allies: Trusted Allies only; Codex: Eldar Codex 2006; c-1. File Version: 1.34 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Apocalypse, Imperial Armour, Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Total points exceed maximum allowed roster size (max 2000).

Composition Report:
Formation: 0 (0 - 0)
Other Units: 10 (- - 0)
Legendary Units: 0 (- - 0)

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

[Defenestratus]

I tend to play against Marines/CSM a lot so my lists tend to reflect that common opponent. I realized that this list would be hideous against hordes and assault elements so I dropped a squad of WG and a squad of PF's and added some Spiders and scorpions. Token elements for sure but I think that with the otherwise lack of mobility in the list, I needed a harassment unit and at least SOME kind of counter attack squad. (Again, points are overcosted in AB datafiles thus the nature of the 2030 pts total)

2000 Pts - Eldar Roster - 2k Wraithseer list

Total Roster Cost: 2030

HQ: Wraithseer (IA) (1#, 235 pts)
. . 1 Wraithseer (IA), 235 pts = (base cost 185) + D-cannon 50

HQ: Farseer (1#, 185 pts)
. . 1 Farseer, 185 pts = (base cost 55 + Runes of Warding 15 + Spirit Stones 20) + Doom 25 + Fortune 30 + Guide 20 + Mind War 20

Troops: Wraithguard (11#, 396 pts)
. . 10 Wraithguard, 350 pts = 10 * 35
. . . . 1 Spiritseer (Warlock), 46 pts = (base cost 25 + Conceal 15 + Spiritseer Upgrade 6)

Heavy Support: Wraithlord (1#, 140 pts)
. . 1 Wraithlord, 140 pts = (base cost 90 + Wraithsword 10) + Bright Lance 40

Heavy Support: Warp Hunter (IA) (1#, 180 pts)
. . 1 Warp Hunter (IA), 180 pts = (base cost 125 + Holo-Field 35 + Spirit Stones 10) + Shuriken Cannon 10

Heavy Support: Warp Hunter (IA) (1#, 180 pts)
. . 1 Warp Hunter (IA), 180 pts = (base cost 125 + Holo-Field 35 + Spirit Stones 10) + Shuriken Cannon 10

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts = 5 * 24 (base cost 19 + Pathfinders 5)

Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers) (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Pathfinders (Rangers), 120 pts = 5 * 24 (base cost 19 + Pathfinders 5)

Fast Attack: Warp Spiders (10#, 262 pts)
. . 9 Warp Spiders, 198 pts = 9 * 22
. . . . 1 Warp Spider Exarch, 64 pts = (base cost 34 + Withdraw 15 + Powerblades 10 + Death Spinner x2 5)

Elite: Striking Scorpions (10#, 212 pts)
. . 9 Striking Scorpions, 144 pts = 9 * 16
. . . . 1 Striking Scorpion Exarch, 68 pts = (base cost 28 + Shadowstrike 20 + Stalker 5 + Scorpion Claw 15)

Validation Report:
b-2. Apocalypse Allies: Trusted Allies only; Codex: Eldar Codex 2006; c-1. File Version: 1.34 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Apocalypse, Imperial Armour, Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Total points exceed maximum allowed roster size (max 2000).

Composition Report:
Formation: 0 (0 - 0)
Other Units: 10 (- - 0)
Legendary Units: 0 (- - 0)

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

[Da Gargoyle]

I think the adjustment to include spiders & scorpions was a good one. Otherwise your options were rather static.

I usually include a wave serpent myself to boost across the board with whatever is in the army.

in my reference to last Friday, we gamed 1000 which for me included
HQ Autarch mandis, scorpion sword & fusion gun
Waithlord with Sword & scatter,
wave serpent with missiles,
guardian squad of 14 with scatter,
path finders,
storm guardians 11 + 2 fusion guns & warlock with enhance
5 Banshees & exarch with executioner & acrobatic
5 dragons & exarch with firepike

I took banshees over scorpions because of the preponderance of grey knights. It meant the 3+ save for scorpions did not carry the same weight as a guaranteed first hit with banshees. And acrobatic meant I usually also fought as if I had assaulted. The girls did well carving up GK and BA jump troops.

Didn't quite get the storm raven off my objective though. In the second gane it was a 3 way with the Sanguinus character proving to be over powered. 3+ invulnerable made life difficult.

I may hit him with the Banshees next time.

[Defenestratus]

Played a game against Blood Angels yesterday with the "diversified" list above.

The wraithseer did admirably, weathering a charge from Gabriel Seth, a Librarian, sanguinary priest and assault marines only to eliminate them to a man after 4 rounds. He then fleeted a wraithlord who charged into close combat with the contemptor and ended it in glorious fashion.

However the real stars of the game were the warp hunters. I swear that if these things are legal in regular games of 40k, there's no reason to take a fireprism ever again.

Sure they aren't as good as FP's against most armor, but the fact that you don't need to have the template hole touching the vehicle to get the full effectiveness of the "blast" plus the fact that its a defensive weapon which also allows you to fire the shuricannon....

But the anti infantry aspect of it is simply stunning.

I made a whole squad of sanguinary guard disappear off the table in one shot. Likewise with a squad of DC.

(FWIW the Imperial Fists variant of the contemptor is pretty evil, 12 assault cannon shots a round followed by two cyclone missile shots. Youch)

[Defenestratus]

Played a game last night with the list against a Draigo wing, Paladin heavy list.

Again the warp hunters really shined brightly... almost too brightly to be honest. I'm beginning to think that they're a bit on the broken side. I keep telling myself that they are more expensive than prisms but to be honest, that doesn't matter much when you watch one of them reap havoc on a paladin squad. Between two of them a round, I was able to effectively eliminate all of his paladins in two rounds of shooting per squad.

The wraithseer was simply a mobile D-cannon platform this game as I wasn't stupid enough to get him into close combat with GK's - especially draigo.

[DrLove42]

I've decided that after a year I'm retiring my DE to the shelf for a little bit, and go back to Craftworld + Tau for a bit

So a wrote myself a 1750 list around the Wraithseer just to see how it would go

Wraithseer D Cannon
Farseer, Warding, Fortune + Guide

9 Pathfinder
10 Wraithguard, Warlock, Enhance
10 DA in Serpent, Lances

Warp Hunter
Warp Hunter

2 Hornet, 2 Scatter Lasers

[Defenestratus]

I think you'll find that the Warp hunters are really OP'd.

I know that I've decided to shelve them in normal games of 40k. If I were playing my BA, I wouldn't feel as bad playing them in normal games since that kind of implement of destruction doesn't really feel out of place in a SM list, but the tool is rather blunt and rather powerful for an Eldar list. (Perhaps I've been brainwashed into thinking Eldar shouldn't have such big guns) I think a way to balance them is to remove the barrage rule. Denying cover saves against most of your targets at AP2 wounding on 2's is ... simply stunning.

I feel very guilty using the warp hunters.

The wraithseer on the other hand is very reasonable.