Not sure if troll or stupid....

[Psychosplodge]

Followed this link:

Somebody's blog (http://thegwumps.blogspot.com/2011/10/gamers-cant-handle-imperium.html)

While reading on here

Games review site (http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/878868-games-inbox-uncharted-vs-resistance-bioshock-intrigue-and-ace-combat-in-space)

And somehow feel this bloke has completely missed the bigger picture....

[Kawauso]

Yeah, I dunno.

I kind of see where the article is going, but I feel like it's missed the point.

He makes space marines out to be way more psychotic than they actually are. And yes, the Imperium is xenophobic and runs on religious zealotry...but that's all from a myopic point of view.

Those are the stereotypes that help us understand the game's universe from a big picture point of view.

When you zoom in and look at things on the individual level, you realize that the world wouldn't actually function on such extreme levels everywhere, all the time.

A good look at most Black Library books - particularly anything from an IG perspective - will help you realize that the 40k universe is populated by and large by actually normal people. Normal people who occasionally have to deal with extraordinary circumstances.

Heck, even the Astartes are, for the most part, fairly easy to understand. The article makes them out to all be Black Templars or Khorne Berserkers (who -are- insane...I don't know why he was expecting that of Titus of the Ultramarines).

So, yeah, I think in a lot of ways the article kind of missed the point on the minutia of the 40k mythos, by focusing on fluff from the perspective of the sort of hyperbole that populates the stuff you find in the codices about how crazy and badass each army is.

[Psychosplodge]

I always thought the 40K universe would make excellent RPG material, an inquisitor based baldur's gate type thing possibly (not the console game) but obviously it's all about frenzied marines killing ****.
I always got the impression that apart from sending troops to war the average imperial planet might not see an alien or suffer much from one millennia to the next, the imperium is just that massive.

[Sanguineone]

He actually had some valid points about some of the later founding chapters. Shame he didn't realise that most chapters don't follow the Imperial Creed like that.

Titus was simply put, an Ultramarine Captain

Now excuse me I have to go play this new game I got.......it has Orc's in it.........

[Old_Paladin]

Oh man,
Someone needs to call Fantasy Flight, quick.

They need to know that people won't play a 40K based RPG.

[MaltonNecromancer]

All I have to say is that everyone is right.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheWriter

Let's look at 40K as an inclusive fictional setting where all points of view are valid. Because they are. Because it's fiction.

For a similar point of view on a totally different (but related topic), consider this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9VSIT8lY8

Personally, I always run my Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader/ Deathwatch games with the implicit understanding that Imperium vs Chaos = ****s vs Satanists. That way, when the characters have to do the right thing (like Titus in Space Marine) they really are the heroes. This is largely because I came to roleplay by way of Vampire: The Masquerade, rather than D&D, so I'm all into ethical decisions, rather than killing monsters and levelling up. Also, I detest

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtagonistCenteredMorality

I think this guy's right; I also think all of you are right. It's a shared setting, and it can be all things to all people.

As for a computer-based 40K RPG, I just want Fallout 3 with bolters. Give me a virtual Necromunda to explore (entirely on my own - I don't MMORPG), and I'll be happy.

[Sanguineone]

I should probably play fallout......


Ooooo I just thought of a cool signature.

[Sanguineone]

Half full, half empty. Sanguinary Guard or Death Company. The future is most certainly grim, there is after all only war. In a time like that what would a hero be. The Ultramarines are most certainly the poster boys if the Imperium.
I wonder how careful the administratum are when they create a space marine chapter, do they understand geneseed has mystical properties or just rely on bad hypno indoctrination to keep from bringing out the traits of their primarch?
How many loyalist chapters fell after the Heresy? How many Successors?
Must check out the above links.

[Phototoxin]

Not all marines are zombie khorne beserkers. Yes they can rage and kill things but they are the imperiums scalpel.

Titus is a good example of a marine that's 'normal'. Some marines are arrogant and proud 'imperial guard - huh use them to clear minefields' others are aware that they are there to protect humanity even if it means breaking a few eggs.

Some chapters (raven guard and salamanders) are more 'humanitarian' whereas others (marines maleovlent, probably 'angry marines' are more LOOK AT MEEE I'M SPECIAL' 12 year olds in power armour.

Essentially there is a LOT of scope in 40k - it just depends how you want to play it.

[Wildeybeast]

He lost me at the part where he implied that DoW II had some reedeming features to it :D

[AdamHarry]

I dunno if the author hasn't heard of or seen any of the Fantsy Flight books or not, but I'll be honest, I read the first couple paragraphs and then saw the wall of text.

Look if he's wanting to play a Baldur's Gate, party style " tactical" game with RPG elements on a PC/Console that's one thing. I'd play the crap outta that. If he's wanting to play a Pen-and-Paper RPG with Space Marines, it's totally doable. It really depends on your Gaming Group.

Do you like hack-n-slash adventure? just run the Deathwatch RPG like a mission based thing.
Do you want it to be about the conflict characters feel as they are brutalizing a planet? The that's up to you and your ablitlies as a "role" player, not a "roll" player.

The Conflict exists for Space Marines, it's up to the Player and the DM/GM to bring that out. Here is a great starting point for Deathwatch: One of your party members is a Space Wolf, the other a Dark Angel. Go.

[Psychosplodge]

I think he just had trouble identifying space marines with anything other than unthinking bloodthirsty berserker....

[Anggul]

So...

...he's come up with his own idea...

...and called it stupid.

Hm.

[Psychosplodge]

There just seems so much fluff to contradict his arguments, like when a religious nut finds one passage of their holy text and ignores everything that doesn't agree with it...

[AdamHarry]

So...

...he's come up with his own idea...

...and called it stupid.

Hm.

this made me smile.

[Sanguineone]

'The sign on the side of the truck said CRITTERS OF HOLLYWOOD!'

............did anyone get to the point in the second link where he said he was playing a game called *ahem* Orcs must die?
Anyone?