Necron Background Rumour

[eldargal]

Putting this in a seperate thread as the others have pretty much their course, from Dakkadakka via Warseer:


Okay, with the book's release date rapidly approaching, let's pull back the curtain on the codex a bit. First off some (rather important) background notes:


There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).

Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.

So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).

All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.

The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).

This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).

Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.

So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.

And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).

So while it is a little shocking to have such a massive fluff change hit, I do think it is probably the right way forward to create a more fully realized faction. But I do think it is probably going to be a massive turn-off to those players who absolutely adored the old fluff for the army.

Isaid I heard C'tan were being removed in the new book, and no one believed me!:p

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Liking this. Looking more likely I'll start a Necron army, even if only to paint up, play and sell on. We'll see what the Codex looks like and how it might play - never had anything to do with Necrons until now

[DrLove42]

Sounds good. Not sure on the c'tan stuff though. Things like the dragon being on Mars are what has set a lot of 40k up, basically removing that in a form could be detrimental to the overal fluff of the universe

[Pikante]

Tomb Kings in spaaaaaaaacccceeeee!!!!!!

In all seriousness all this stuff just makes me want to play them even more. They were already my third favorite army, and now it is time to dust off those old models and get to work. Thanks for sharing!

[DrLove42]

Tomb Kings in spaaaaaaaacccceeeee!!!!!!


Again how is anyone suprised that they sound more TKingy now? Even using just the old fluff they sound identical!

A ancient race, all effectivly dead, but bound back to un-life by a seperate group, but it was a con that denied them their free rights and made them mostly mindless slaves, except for a few high ranking individuals. If these high ranking individuals are killed the army starts to fall apart. They hate the living, and make it a quest to destroy them. Any who fall in battle are returned to the fray quickly by Necromantic power.

[eldargal]

Well it makes more sense when you think about, instead of a star-eating god somehow being caged on Mars, there is a shard of the C'tan on Mars. Tad more plausible in my opinion.:)


Sounds good. Not sure on the c'tan stuff though. Things like the dragon being on Mars are what has set a lot of 40k up, basically removing that in a form could be detrimental to the overal fluff of the universe

[Grailkeeper]

That Altaioc mention would tie in with what is mentioned in the necron short story in Fear the Alien.

Has anyone read through the more recent Necron books to see if any of the new units were sneakily mentioned in them? Sadly I left my copy of Dead men walking in London when I moved back home.

[Rinion]

Very much just like Tomb Kings in space, then. Does this mean that Khaine is a C'tan then, since the Avatars are all shards too? :p

[eldargal]

Similar principle, but Khaine is no more a C'tan than a Keeper of Secrets is. Each is a shard of the greater god willingly or unwillingly split from the whole.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Well, if it provides for people to be creative in how they make their Necron armies I'm all for it. I was never fond for the C'tan, so having them re-worked will allow for some new stuff.

The sad thing is, I can see me buying Necron Models at one point. If it isn't to start an army, I'll probably end up converting them into something :/

[Anon!]

Wow, they actually managed to ruin zombie terminators with disintegrator rays led by immortal star-eaters. :|

[eldargal]

I just realised, with Necron Lords actually having personalities now I could have a female Necron Lord whose agenda is to find a way to get her shapely but squishy former body back.:rolleyes: Now, how to feminise one of those Necron lord sculpts...

[MaltonNecromancer]

So GW can retcon things?

Hmmm...

[eldargal]

Not much to retcon really. Most of the Necron background was Eldar background that was taken and twisted to be about them in the first place.

[Grailkeeper]

I just realised, with Necron Lords actually having personalities now I could have a female Necron Lord whose agenda is to find a way to get her shapely but squishy former body back.:rolleyes: Now, how to feminise one of those Necron lord sculpts...

Maybe something like this http://botropolis.com/2009/03/terminator-cyborgs-on-display-in-tokyo/

[eldargal]

Well yes, not sure I could sculpt it though. Might stick to bulking out the chest with some plasticard plates to make it a little more feminine.:rolleyes: Honestly I've no idea.

[Wildeybeast]

So the Necrons new goal is to capture the C'tan and stick them in the Phantom zone? :D

[Grailkeeper]

Waht about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beaumont-BMW005-K80-Poledancing-FemmeBot-Female-Robot-/380297146401#ht_707wt_1165


You know the new fluff that they have survied through the timeless ages, and are searching for that new C'tan- the "Spearmint Rhino"

[Wildeybeast]

Waht about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beaumont-BMW005-K80-Poledancing-FemmeBot-Female-Robot-/380297146401#ht_707wt_1165


You know the new fluff that they have survied through the timeless ages, and are searching for that new C'tan- the "Spearmint Rhino"

'Stripper bot by day and assassin bot by night'. My she is quite the modern woman, holding down two jobs at once.

[Necron2.0]

I just realised, with Necron Lords actually having personalities now I could have a female Necron Lord whose agenda is to find a way to get her shapely but squishy former body back.:rolleyes: Now, how to feminise one of those Necron lord sculpts...

Really, any robot is merely an articulated mechanism with a protective covering. Said covering could be anything ... such as (for example) Banshee armor - which, if the Necrons have been fighting Eldar, they probably have a few examples of. Cut up a Banshee, put gaps where the joints would be, add a suitably Necron-like head and some Necron accessories, and BAM - you're done.


In general, however, you cannot discuss gynoids and soul transference without paying homage to Maria, the first and best:

http://www.theasc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/8.-Maria-the-robot.jpg

Two of my current favorite gynoid images are these:

http://www.blog4iphone.com/wallpapers/upload/DesktopWallpapers/cache/Female-Robot-320x480.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rxCWsK1YEQE/TO0mGqWq79I/AAAAAAAAN_I/Y-0y53Btvpo/s800/Female_Robots_Look_Beautiful_Awesome_Female_Robots _12.jpg

[Ulthwé Guardian]

The Alaitoc nemesis reference does fit in story elements of the Eldar faction in 'Dawn of War - Retribution' by THQ and a story in 'Path of the Seer' by Gav Thorpe.

Unlike other Craftworlds, Alaitoc never felt like they had a mission statement i.e. Ulthwé guards against Chaos, Iyanden is to survive/fight Tyranids, Biel-tan to bring about the rebirth of the Eldar. Admittedly I think Saim-Hann just loves a good fight.

I do like the new aspect that Necrons are no longer just ingenious Tyranids (galactically speaking).

[Jive Tyrant]

I could have a female Necron Lord whose agenda is to find a way to get her shapely but squishy former body back.

Forget Necrons, that's the goal of any woman over 40.

[Lerra]

I wonder how this works with Flayed Ones. I can't imagine any non-evil army being cool with crazy guys that drape themselves in the flesh of their victims.

[Kawauso]

Just saying, but...wouldn't Necrons already be a mixture of male/female traits?

I mean, they're robotic -skeletons-.

The only differences between male/female skeletons are things like brow ridges, rib cages and pelvic bones...all stuff that's too subtle to represent on a mini, really. :P

[Kawauso]

I wonder how this works with Flayed Ones. I can't imagine any non-evil army being cool with crazy guys that drape themselves in the flesh of their victims.

In the old fluff, at least, Flayed Ones are where all of the Nectrontyr's murderers and psychopaths went.

[Cursed13]

Well it makes more sense when you think about, instead of a star-eating god somehow being caged on Mars, there is a shard of the C'tan on Mars. Tad more plausible in my opinion.:)

It was entirely feasible previously. Recall that the C'tan cannot exist in the warp, they are utterly destroyed by it. So if the Emperor did in fact contain a certain C'tan on Mars and used a warp bubble, if said C'tan try to move through that warp barrier, said C'tan would surely die. Would it really be so difficult for the Emperor to create a spherical warp-membrane to cage a C'tan? I don't think so, we know the Emperor was supremely capable with warp powers. Recall in Mechanicus that the chamber in the Noctis Labyrinthus had the same qualities used to describe when warp and reality meet? Painful to look at, incomprehensible geometries.

[Lexington]

Codex: Pharon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VOR:_The_Maelstrom)
Seems a lot easier to say. :p

[Deadlift]

Forget Necrons, that's the goal of any woman over 40.

Not just the women mate lol, I was once quite proud of my physique now my mates compare me to daddy pig :), oh well he is still hench.

But I think Eldargal is onto something here, if the change in fluff for crons is kosher then my not female crons too, would look cool.

[warpcrafter]

Ever since I read the Soul Drinkers book (Hellforged) where they went into a sort of cemetery for Necron Lords, I've hoped they would do something like this. Can't wait to get my hands on the codex.

[Phaeton]

So the rumour that pops up from time to time about the Tyranids running away from 'something' could now be the Silent King ?

[MarneusCalgar]

And... who will be that man in baroque armour??

A Primarch?

Leman Russ??

[Gir]

There is nothing about this fluff I don't like. Kind of like how there was nothing about the old fluff I did like.

Might have to start Necrons now....

[daboarder]

I'll miss the C'tan, I wish they'd left the big bad 4 in as background antagonists unaligned to any major faction.

other than that I'm tempted to sell a mate whats left of my unfinished marines and start a Necron army...

[Crevab]

We get the option for Noblebright Necrons? Interesting

Do they explain what the C'tan are? Rather than last book's warp-free magic

[Lemt]

I REALLY wanted to hate this Necron fluff but... it seems like an improvement. As a Tyranid and Necron player anything that makes the armies more different from each other is a good thing. "Evil race that wants to consume the galaxy" can get boring after a while.
But yeah, my Necrons? They'll still be evil.

[BigGrim]

That Altaioc mention would tie in with what is mentioned in the necron short story in Fear the Alien.

It also ties with Path of the Seer. A memory of the War Host attacking a slumbering Tomb World that went a bit wrong.

Also, the whole Lords with personalities and Destroyer Virus is started back in the Space Marine Battles novel, Fall of Damnos.

[eldargal]

I just realised there is a possibility we (Eldar players) may get our War in Heaven back. The new fluff says the Necrons kill the Old Ones for the C'tan and then hide from the Eldar retaliation, the implication being there was no war between the Necron/C'tan and the Eldar. If there was no war then it could be because the Eldar have gone back to being simply the 'children' of the Old Ones rather than being bred along with their gods to be weapons against the C'tan. I really do hope so, I hated how the Necrons were just shoehorned into our fluff, it didn't do either race any favours.

If true, then Ward (and team) just did a super thing for 40k background as a whole, getting it away from the 'everything and everyone is connected way back at the dawn of time' nonsense.

Edit: Obviously all this asumes that the background summary is accurate.

[Anggul]

The backstory sounds great, much better than: 'We're the best at everything ever... but we went to sleep because our gods ate all of their food."

My only criticism is that it sounds too much like the Eldar backstory, with the massive empire brought to nothing but separate bits floating around doing their own thing using shards of their once whole gods to fight.

On the other hand I suppose it's kind of cool that they mirror the Eldar, it would be awesome if there were certain Craftworld vs Mini-empire rivalries. They all sound like they're doing the Biel-Tan thing of trying to get back as much of their empire as possible. I also like how it isn't just: 'Yeah Necrons pwn everyone', now they're in a situation which makes the Necrons vs Eldar thing a lot cooler.

[Necron2.0]

I'll admit the new background (if true) adds a lot more color to the Necrons. It also provides a reason why Necrons would ever fail a moral test (Why would mindless undead robots care if they're being slaughtered? Oh, it's because they're actually free willed). I kinda will miss the whole "everybody is food" back story, but I can live without it, I guess.

What kinda pulls me up short is the reason they went into stasis. They killed the Old Ones. They killed their own star gods. But they're afraid of Eldar retribution. Seriously? I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but where I play, only one guy has had any success with Craftworld Eldar. Every other player who's fielded a Craftworld army has gotten sodomized in a truly sickening fashion. It just smacks of, "After killing a lion and a dinosaur, the mighty hunters hid from the badger."

[Gotthammer]

But these weren't the Craftworld Eldar - these were the original space-empire-forging-stars-live-and-die-at-their-command-I've-got-socks-older-than-your-entire-race-our-gods-are-still-alive-and-kicking Eldar.

[radarbabyeater]

But these weren't the Craftworld Eldar - these were the original space-empire-forging-stars-live-and-die-at-their-command-I've-got-socks-older-than-your-entire-race-our-gods-are-still-alive-and-kicking Eldar.

This. The Eldar of old should not be likened to the Craftworld Eldar of the current age. They're a dying race now, but back then... I'm sure the Necrons had plenty of reason to hide. Not to mention, I'm sure after a galactic purge of Old Ones and C'tan, that they wouldn't be immediately ready to continue combat against a foe like the Eldar at that time.

[Nemo]

This. The Eldar of old should not be likened to the Craftworld Eldar of the current age. They're a dying race now, but back then... I'm sure the Necrons had plenty of reason to hide. Not to mention, I'm sure after a galactic purge of Old Ones and C'tan, that they wouldn't be immediately ready to continue combat against a foe like the Eldar at that time.

You have your chronology twisted. The Eldar were created as a weapon against the Necrontyr by the Old Ones. Hence, they are a much younger race than the Necrontyr, and did certainly not have time during the war between the Old Ones and the Necrontyr to turn into the "Eldar of Old".

The reason hiding from the Enslaver plague in stasis works is that the Enslavers did not have interstellar travel. Doing the same to hide from an interstellar civilization who knows where you live is suicide.

[radarbabyeater]

The reason hiding from the Enslaver plague in stasis works is that the Enslavers did not have interstellar travel. Doing the same to hide from an interstellar civilization who knows where you live is suicide.

Until the fluff got a Wardly retcon. We'll see if that truth remains the truth.

[Necron2.0]

We'll see if that truth remains the truth.

I agree, right now all we have are rumors. Even if the history as presented is the new "true," it's probably severely paraphrased. However, taking it purely on face value, the math just does not add up is what I'm saying. Per the original timeline, the Necrontyr were only slightly younger than the Old Ones, but were much older than the Eldar. In geological terms, the Necrontyr were probably an Age younger than the Old Ones, while the Eldar were at least an Era to perhaps even an Epoch younger than both. You can bet that if the Old Ones were all killed, the Eldar were no doubt severely messed up in the process.

As for the Craftworlds not being "all that," I'm not well versed in the Eldar Milieu, so someone with more of a background with them can correct me, but I was under the impression that the Craftworlds were like the distilled essence of all that was best in the Eldar. They're like seed pods, traveling through space, from which the full flower of Eldar society can be reborn in all its glory. As such, although small in number, man for man they should be a match to any of their ancestors. If that were the case, then the only way the Eldar of old could defeat the Necrons would be through sheer volume of troops. However, going full circle, if the Eldar were involved in the war that ultimately lead to their creators' destruction, they should be nearly extinct too. This leads back to the question of why anyone would fear reprisals from a nearly extinct, technologically inferior foe?

[eldargal]

The Craftworld Eldar represent the nobility, psychic ability and discipline of the ancient Eldar. The Dark Eldar represent the unbridled, raw power and emotion of the ancient Eldar. They are each less than the ancient Eldar, though. Imagine all the strengths of the Craftworld Eldar and all the strengths of the Dark Eldar merged together with even more advanced technology that they fully understand and you get some idea of the ancient Eldar.

Nemo, as has been pointed out that may have been retconned. It was a damn stupid bit of fluff in the first place, a desperate attempt to try and make the Necrons fit in by making them the mythological enemies of the previously established major 40k race. If the implications of the background summary are accurate, Eldar might get their background back and the Necrons might actually have some of their own.

[daboarder]

I agree, right now all we have are rumors. Even if the history as presented is the new "true," it's probably severely paraphrased. However, taking it purely on face value, the math just does not add up is what I'm saying. Per the original timeline, the Necrontyr were only slightly younger than the Old Ones, but were much older than the Eldar. In geological terms, the Necrontyr were probably an Age younger than the Old Ones, while the Eldar were at least an Era to perhaps even an Epoch younger than both. You can bet that if the Old Ones were all killed, the Eldar were no doubt severely messed up in the process.


age of the race has no bearing on their strength on a galactic scale. another example is the Imperium, its much younger than the eldar and orks but its far more powerful, and even if they were united I could easily imagine the eldar doing something similar if they were capable of it if it was the imperium after them during the great crusade.

edit: removed tau reference as poster below me has a good point, I merely brought them up as their rapid technological development is set to catapult them to top of the food chain if they can master FTL travel.

[Kawauso]

The Tau are really weak compared to the other races, though. Just saying.

They don't have the numbers to stand up against any other faction as a whole. They have their technology and the auxiliary forces subsumed into their empire as their greatest strengths.

On top of that, something going in their favour is that no other faction in the galaxy is united strongly enough in any one section of space to pose a significant threat to their existence, which is why they've won so many small victories.

But this doesn't change the fact that their overall strength is far less than that of the other races.

[eldargal]

Part of the codex cover apparently:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120559&d=1318962723
If it has been posted already, sorry.

[flatdice]

wow thats a great codex picture if it is it mostly.

What i do like if it is the new codex cover is it brings focus on the central figure as a 'character' perhaps a subtle indication that necrons have some personality now. I especially like how scarabs are are his feet.

Unlike the previous cover where the sole necron of focus seems to be a mindless foot soldier.

[Necron2.0]

If the implications of the background summary are accurate, Eldar might get their background back ....

Aww, now why would you want that? To quote the Bard (in this case, I mean Slim Shady), "It feels so empty without me."
;)



wow thats a great codex picture if it is it mostly.

Hmmm. I'm not so sure ... I have my doubts. I love the image, but I just cannot shake the 1980's rock band vibe:

http://www.technodisco.net/img/tracks/m/molly-hatchet/2113294-molly-hatchet-take-no-prisoners.jpg

[eldargal]

The amusing thing about that art? The 'Egyptian' ships in the background look so much like Greek triremes it just isn't funny. Actually it is very funny considering I was lectured on how they were Egyptian but lets not get back into that.

Necron2.0, well I'm all forEldar and Necrons having 'history', it just bugged me that to get them into the universe they just said 'oh, yeah that whole Eldar mythological war thing was actually the Necrons, convenient eh?', it did neither race any favours. Because so much Eldar background already existed it just seemed stupid that they had tens of millions of years on top without hunting down and destroying Tomb Worlds easily, it just didn't fit together well. It has nothing to do with the Eldar not being the oldest race anymore as is so often claimed, as the Old Ones were always older than the Eldar.:rolleyes:

[Necron2.0]

it just seemed stupid that they had tens of millions of years on top without hunting down and destroying Tomb Worlds easily...

It wasn't that you weren't looking. Rather it's all about us being really, really sneaky.

"We're totally safe! They'll never find us under these ornate, humungous, glowing green, planet sized pyramids!"

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1525834880/happy-pfftch_bigger.jpg

[daboarder]

gotta disagree with that one edargirl, yeah the dimensions are all outta whack but I'd say their meant to be based on the papyrus raft boats....whether the stereotype is accurate or not is irrelevant its about common public perception.

[eldargal]

Well, that is the thing, the traits are all fairly common:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120559&d=1318962723
Egyptian:
http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/egyptian_model_boat.jpg
Sumerian:
http://www.historicalgenesis.com/Images/picture_03.jpg
Greek:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-lmSHlnOhTjU/SN8RBjDyo9I/AAAAAAAAAc0/hmgFVm2xBKM/IMG_7749.JPG

What people seemto be doing is focusing on largely irrelevent details at the expense of what actually makes something 'Egyptian' or what have you.

[DrLove42]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1980022a_60011999001_CurseZandri360_445x319.jpg
Tomb King Yes
Egyptian No

[Necron2.0]

I think we've all clearly and thoroughly established that we all see precisely what we want to see. Do we really need to dredge this whole thing up again, ad nauseum?

[eldargal]

Well there isn't a lot more left for this thread anyway, until someone gets their mitts on the book we won't get much more information on the background and when that happens it will belong in the background section and not in rumours.:p But yes I'm not going to go on about the lack of Egyptian aesthetic anymore.