Chaos Lord or Sorceror?

[Prometheus]

I am going to a GT next month and have finalized my Plague Marine/Chaos Marine list... well all but one point. I can not decide weather to take a Choas Lord or a Sorceror. Which would you guys take (and why)?

If it helps here is the list that will be fielded with him. I have about 155pts to spend.

HQs:
Daemon Prince - MON, Wings, Warptime
Greater Daemon (doesn't take up a HQ slot, so I can have 3 HQs)

Elites:
6 Chosen - 2 Melta, 2 Flamers, Champion
Dreadnought - Twin Las, Missile Launcher

Troops:
7 Plague Marines - Champion, Powerfist, Rhino, Icon
7 Plague Marines - Champion, Powerfist, Rhino, Icon
10 Undivided Marines - Champion, Powerweapon, Las, Flamer, Rhino, Icon
10 Lesser Daemons

Heavys:
Defiler - Close Combat Arm
Vindicator - Daemonic Possesion

*It should be noted that I am taking certain units becuase the GT takes Army Comp into account. I usually run 2 Defilers and no Dreadnought, I also liek using a second Daemon Prince (either of Nurgle or Slannesh). I am also not oppose to dropping 3 Lesser Daemons to get more points if need be, but 155pts should be enough.

[Denzark]

How many points total is this army?

[Chumbalaya]

That Dread is going to ruin you :P

Chosen need a Rhino, PMs need meltas, and an auto/las Predator would serve you better than the Dreadnought (he won't shoot you!)

A sorc is a better pick than a lord generally, but I'd fix up the list itself before worrying about a 3rd HQ.

[RocketRollRebel]

I agree with what chumbalaya has to say although the chosen could outflank so they dont necessarily need a rhino. Outflanking a squad of meltas could make for an unpleasant surprise. If it were me I'd say 'eff comp. Its not worth handicapping yourself :p

Good luck to you tho!

[Timbo]

Yeah, comp only really matters if you win more than you lose. If you need the dread at least keep it cheap and take the multi-melta. Then it will probably only melt one of your marines when it FFs.

[Prometheus]

I think I am going to forgo army comp and take my normal twin defilers. I also think I am going to end up with the Sorceror with the Wind of Choas power.

Oh and I don't give the Chosen a Rhino cause I use them to outflank trhen I hope to make the champion into the greater daemon. If not hes gotta foot slog, which isnt a huge deal but i perfer the good old fasion deamon bomb.

[RocketRollRebel]

I think I am going to forgo army comp and take my normal twin defilers. I also think I am going to end up with the Sorceror with the Wind of Choas power.

Oh and I don't give the Chosen a Rhino cause I use them to outflank trhen I hope to make the champion into the greater daemon. If not hes gotta foot slog, which isnt a huge deal but i perfer the good old fasion deamon bomb.

Good man! I'm going to a tourny with a comp score in about a month and I'm kinda disregarding it and going melta vet spam and 11 tanks.

Anyway I'd maybe say take all meltas for the chosen then? I'm not a big fan of multitasking units since they dont seem to end up being all that good at anything but then again 2 meltas and 2 flamers is pretty effective at both tank hunting and horde scorching...

Haveing the Greater Demon come out of their champ is a nasty idea but its depending on the dice gods to be pretty kind to you.

I'm curious about the undivided las/flamer squad with the rhino? Why the flamer or rhino if they are sitting back? Or why the las cannon if they are driving forward? If they are ment to sit on an objective I'd maybe forgo the rhino and add a plasma gun for better range. Or if they are blazing forward in the rhino I'd go with a pair of special weps.

[mercer]

I'm looking to make a Emperors Children army in the new year, I used a chaos lord before and they aren't that impressive, I would rather take a daemon prince. As I use two princes already in my Iron Warrior army I want something different, so I've looked at sorcerers and they look ok.

As the greater daemons, I would like one, but you loose a champion so your paying 15 points to loose a model and gain another, which already has a cost.

btw - how you finding lesser daemons? I had them before, can be a road hump only I found.

[Chumbalaya]

I don't like walking meltas all that much and you really aren't guaranteed to have them come in in time for the GD to pop up.

I say screw comp too ;)

[MUMBLES]

Chaos Sorcerors can be pretty amazing with the addition of their "god mount." Discs for Tzeentch, seekers for slaanesh add an extra attack and increase movement. Tzeentch on a disc with warptime is a surprisingly nasty little guy.

[thralkhan]

I would use Typhus, but he's one of my favorite Chaos models...plus he goes so well with DG and he's a lord AND sorceror
I'd also lose the Dread. They got nerfed in this last codex, but not being able to go into assault frenzy, and that lascannon could be bad for you...
I'd also nix the Undivided marines for more DG...but that's me.
Heavy choices are good...and then there's the Predator to consider...

[DarkLink]

Daemon Prince. They're so much better than a lord or sorcerer, for not many more points.

If you need to stick them in a transport though (the DP's only weakness), I'd go with Kharn. Much killier than most standard lords or sorcerers.

And I'd agree, a Predator is much more useful than a Dread.

[Weekend Democracy]

Daemon Prince. They're so much better than a lord or sorcerer, for not many more points.

If you need to stick them in a transport though (the DP's only weakness), I'd go with Kharn. Much killier than most standard lords or sorcerers.

And I'd agree, a Predator is much more useful than a Dread.

Maybe nitpicking, but I'd call the fact that DPs can't join units and get some ablative wounds surrounding him another weakness. While I do think the DP edges out the other HQ options in the Chaos book there are definitely some advantages to taking a Sorcerer or a Lord.

[Prometheus]

* I slightly re-wrote the list, I dropped the Dread and Picked up another Defiler, and decided on the Sorceror with Winds of Chaos. Oh and its an 1850 list.

I deffinetly pray to the dice gods as it pretains to the Greater Daemon popping out of the Chosen squad. I also liek the twin flamers/twin melta cause then I can kill anything I want to that the oppoents may place near a board edge, if I outflank, or near where I infiltrate them.

As it pretains to the Rhino with the Undivded squad with the Laz/Flamer I use the Rhino to either allow the squad to be more mobile or usually I run it up with the other two Rhinos so I have an extra incase one gets popped. I also have them all converted up so I like fielding them together. A Rhino wall is still a nice thing.

I use the lesser daemons (which are just metal Plague Bearers) as a buffer for whatever needs it, or if they come late game they can contest/steal objectives as they are Troops choices.

[boo_barr]

I've played a lot of CSM, and if you're going for an HQ, then it really comes down to only a few choices:

1. Chaos Lord w/ Nurgle Daemon Weapon- Only 150pts, he can easily take a unit by himself w/ his ability to wound on 4 and re-roll misses.

2. Daemon Prince w/ Tzeentch, Wind of Chaos, Warptime, Wings - Just above 200 pts, but one of the most capable units in the game. I prefer this load-out over the lash prince any day.

3. Chaos Sorcerer w/ Tzeentch, Wind of Chaos and Warptime - Tzeentch w/ WoC and WT is a great combination for DPs, but sometimes you want to stash that offensive ability away in a unit to soak up extra wounds.

4. Abaddon or Kharn - These two are the most reliably killy named-characters in the CSM codex.

5. Lash Prince - Cheap, so it's not a loss if it dies, and it has a great offensive range.

Ahriman and Typhus are both very good, but for the points I feel that Abaddon or Tzeentch DP are more reliable.

[DuskRaider]

I prefer a Chaos Lord... Terminator Lord, in particular. I'll list pros and cons for you, so you can see how I see it.

First, his composition.
-Mark of Nurgle
-Daemon Weapon (Plaguebringer)
-Combi-Melta

Cons first:
-He's 10 pts cheaper then a wingless Nurgle Daemon Prince w/ Wind of Chaos
-Due to being in Terminator Armor, that means he foot slogs (I'll explain why soon)
-He's going to be a priority target

Pros:
-He deepstrikes, meaning you can drop him exactly where he's needed and the enemy won't know where to expect him
-He can deepstrike and join a unit of your Plague Marines, making them much more effective in CC
-With a 2+/5+ save, he's generally very resilient, on top of his Toughness 5

Tactics:
I run a Plaguewing army very often (14 Terminators, Terminator Lord, and 14 Plague Marines in Rhinos @ 1500 pts). Very small list and a very elite list, but you've got a lot going for you this way. First, your basic troops are tough as nails. An opponent would need a good amount of powerful weapons to ruin your day, or massed amount to the extreme to either kill your PMs before they reach an objective, or especially dislodge them from said objective when they claim it. Both PM squads have Personal Icons, which means I have 2 guaranteed drop zones for my 2 groups of 7 Terminators and my Termie Lord. This can be used in many different ways:
-Support. Have a squad in trouble? Drop down one (or all) Terminators on that Icon and ruin your enemy's strategy (or day, lol).
-Exposing a weakness. I equip at least one of my PM squads with Plasma Guns. Why? Because I can Rapid Fire and not fear Gets Hot as much as with other Marines. That equates to 5 Plasma Shots if Rapid fired (Champion has a Plasma Pistol). It's easy to make a hole in your enemy's offense or defense using these, and when you find that chink in their armor, drop your Terminators and Lord down to finish it off.

I'm sure some people will disagree with the Lord layout, my tactics, etc. etc.... But I can safely say I've only lost one game out of dozens I've used this layout in. It's not going to work all of the time, so which means at times you're going to have to pull some skills and serious luck out of your arse at times, but it's fun, it's hard hitting, and it's fluffy.

[mercer]

A winged daemon prince can deep strike also, for 10 points extra I'd rather take the T6 S7 prince which can has a template which allows no armour saves and also doesn't allow armour saves in close combat.

[boo_barr]

I see a lot of people play the Nurgle DP, and honestly I just don't get it. He's a monstrous creature, so he can't hide in a unit to soak up wounds, nor can he easily find cover(uses vehicle rules of obscurement). More often than not, the opponent will be firing their long-range, high strength weapons (like las-cannons) at him; at which point T6 does nothing. Nurgle Bikers are great, because you've got a whole unit of T6, but a single model with T6 is just so easily countered that I don't get why people pay the points for it. Tzeentch or Slaanesh. 4+ invulln is always going to be useful, and Slaanesh is required for Lash.

For an eternal warrior that's likely to draw the big guns before the regular fare, 4+ invuln has always served me better than T6.