(Math) The theoretical number of Marine Chapters...

[modelguyicmt]

Ok, I'll keep this short and tasty.

I'm going to use the number of second founding chapters to determine the theoretical number of Space Marine chapters.

Dark Angels- 3 2nd Founding Chapters (4)
White Scars- 3 2nd Founding Chapters (4)
Space Wolves- 1 2nd Founding Chapter (2)
Imperial Fists- 2 2nd Founding Chapters (3)
Blood Angels- 5 2nd Founding Chapters (6)
Iron Hands- 2 2nd Founding Chapters (3)
Salamanders- 0 2nd Founding Chapters (1)
Raven Guard- 3 2nd Founding Chapters (4)

Now, what does this represent? The relative amount of geneseed to make new chapters from. The numbers are taken from the list of Marine Legions found in all the Space Marine Codex's.

3/5 of all chapters use Ultramarine geneseed. There are 1000 chapters. 400 chapters do not use Ultramarine geneseed.

Total number of 2nd Founding chapters and original Legions- 27 (not including Ultramarines)

400/27= 14.8 x number of 2nd Founding chapters = Number of chapters per Legion at 1000 chapters.

Dark Angels- 59
White Scars- 59
Space Wolves- 30
Imperial Fists- 44
Blood Angels- 89
Iron Hands- 44
Salamanders- 15
Raven Guard- 59
Total- 399

Interesting.
What do you guys think?

[Scion_of_Terra]

It is interesting. I think though that the numbers would differ more from the original number of Second Founding chapters - the Dark Angels would probably want to have as few as possible in on their secret, for example. And let's not forget how the Black Templars would probably screw those numbers to the Warp and back. They're said to have as many as 50,000 members between their various Crusades.

[Kawauso]

It is interesting.

Remember though that as said, there will be some First Founding chapters with very few descendants.

The Space Wolves, for example, are not known to have very many - the only recorded successor they have is the Wolf Brothers chapter, which they had to 'put down' due to widespread mutation (probably a lot of Wulfen in the chapter).
Other than that, the only hint we have regarding SW successors comes from Skyrar's Dark Wolves - but it's possible they could just be renegade Space Wolves, perhaps from a company that has 'gone to the 13th stone', to borrow a phrase from the Sons of Russ. Or they could have no relation to the Space Wolves at all (given the whole wolf motif and the name 'Skyrar', though, I doubt it).

There are also other chapters whose geneseed is used more often to form successor chapters - Imperial Fist stock is seen as very pure and a 'safe bet' of sorts.

[Morgan Darkstar]

Interesting but a bit out.

In total there has been 26 foundings of space marine chapter's

[Wildeybeast]

There are also other chapters whose geneseed is used more often to form successor chapters - Imperial Fist stock is seen as very pure and a 'safe bet' of sorts.

Spot on. For example, Corax messed up the Raven Guard geneseed when trying to rebuild the legion after Istvaan resulting in huge mutant monster space marines. Whilst useful to fling at the enemy, the authorities on Taerra aren't mad keen on producing them for some reason, so use of the RG geneseed is very strictly controlled and subject to the highest level of purity checks. This means that their geneseed is rarely used for founding new chapters and means they are almost constantly below full strength.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Judging from some of the latest fluff (Battle for the Fang), the Space Wolves have absolutely no successor chapters (geneseed too unstable). Occasionally, however, a Great Company will split from the Fang while still remaining loyal to the imperium.

[Hive Mind]

Interesting, but based on a flawed assumption; geneseed isn't a finite resource. If it was, the raising of a new chapter (after the Legions were split) would necessarily involve the destruction of another.

There's also the Templars and Astral Claws fluff that tells us that their chapters grew way beyond the Codex limit. That's an impossibility if geneseed is a 'one out, one in' resource.

[DCompanyChris]

I thought each marine grew 2 gene seeds during his lifetime. Both were retrieved upon death, and each was available for implant into a new candidate.

This covered losses but allowed some to be harvested (via the tithe) for the founding of new chapters. The failure to pay this tithe was one of the reasons for the outbreak of the Badab War.

[Gotthammer]

One is removed at five years, the other at ten. So most Marines already have them out.

[modelguyicmt]

@Scion, I agree with your number of Templars, however, it is specifically mentioned that the DA's 2nd Founding are the only one's called 'The Unforgiven' this implies that there are other DA seeded chapters that do not know about the betrayal. Now whether there actually ARE any, or if the only DA chapters are those in the 2nd Founding I don't know, I haven't read through my DA book in a while :P

And back to the BT, Terra doesn't know how many there are, so they can only take tithes from the numbers that they know exist.



@Kawauso I'll reduce the final number of SW chapters to one and double the number of IF chapters below.


@Morgan Darkstar I'm not sure what that has to do with the data I've posted.



@Wildeybeast It's been so long since I read the IA I've forgotten all about that, don't the Sallies have a similar issue? I'll halve the number of RG chapters below.



@Hive Mind When a new Founding is commissioned, they plant the seed in a group of hosts. When these reach maturity they now have double the number they started with, they then plant these into more hosts to double that number, ect. It takes approx 55 years doing this to get enough geneseed to implant into a few hundred scouts. These scouts are placed under the tutelage of officers from a chapter with the same geneseed. Over a few decades these scouts form a new, self sufficient chapter, and are given their home world (unless they are fleet based of course).

Unfortunately, I don't think this process has ever been described in detail, so it's mostly filling in the blanks.


I've also remembered that the Blood Angels geneseed has problems with stability so I'm halving them also.

Dark Angels- 4
White Scars- 5
Imperial Fists- (6)
Blood Angels- (3)
Iron Hands- 3
Salamanders- 1
Raven Guard- (2)

399/24= 16.6

Dark Angels- 66
White Scars- 83
Space Wolves- 1
Imperial Fists- 100
Blood Angels- 50
Iron Hands- 50
Salamanders- 17
Raven Guard- 33

Total- 400

:cool: