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Inquisitor Soren
09-09-2009, 01:44 PM
Ok guys here is a poll that has been eating me for a while now, so I wanna here what you guys think?

Who made the nids? Who is the hivemind? What is their ultimate purpose?

Andrew283
09-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Even a lunatic would look stupid if he created the nids. Deffo natural

Drew da Destroya
09-09-2009, 03:15 PM
I like the idea of a crazed Old One, personally.

Or the totally off-the-wall possibility that the Hive Mind is being controlled by the Star Child, in order to eventually destroy the Star Child's body, allowing the Emperor to become a fully-powered Warp Entity capable of destroying the Chaos Gods.

Dark_Templar
09-09-2009, 04:29 PM
I like the idea of a crazed Old One, personally.

Or the totally off-the-wall possibility that the Hive Mind is being controlled by the Star Child, in order to eventually destroy the Star Child's body, allowing the Emperor to become a fully-powered Warp Entity capable of destroying the Chaos Gods.

But if everybody dies in the process, nobody will be left to care if there are Chaos Gods around or not...

krispy
09-10-2009, 12:10 AM
hey what about this: what if the emperor made them (as insurance) as he was meant to die and is instead kept on his crystal throne, maybe he had the forethought to make the nids with their mission being to make sure he was dead? haha that would be kinda neat - the nids storyline could continue that they reach earth and cause the death of the emperor and then their forces fall back an they become slightly more like the eldar, roving round the galaxy but still a major force.

hah! that was my creative thinking for today done!

/k

Grumpy Ripper
09-10-2009, 01:08 AM
I like the idea of a crazed Old One, personally.

Or the totally off-the-wall possibility that the Hive Mind is being controlled by the Star Child, in order to eventually destroy the Star Child's body, allowing the Emperor to become a fully-powered Warp Entity capable of destroying the Chaos Gods.

ive made that post a number of times in diffrent threads yey iam not the only crazy one :p

Prometheus
09-10-2009, 01:16 AM
As a dedicated Tyranid player all the info I have gathered indicated that the Tyranids evolved in another galaxy and have sweeped through that galaxy and many others kinda like intersteller roaches. The seem to be a force of the universe, cleaning up the riff-raff and stopping other powerful creatures from growing to strong. They are a filter of sorts, the lower end of the genepool they kill eat and absorb the strong genes they proegate by getting ride of the weaker genes allowing the stronger ones to become more dominmate. It is as if they are the fungus in the forest. Without it nothing would decompose and nothing would get nutriates to grow again.

Now as it pretains to thier "leader"/director... evidence is sketchy but tends to lean toward the Hivemind being (in decending order of likely-hood)
1) The fourth C'Tan: The Outsider
2) A pool of thier combined thoughts (kinda like how ork psychic grow stronger when more orks are around)
3) A yet unseen HUGE Tyranid organism
4) Phil Kelly himself
5) The Emperor

Emperorsmercy
09-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Now as it pretains to thier "leader"/director... evidence is sketchy but tends to lean toward the Hivemind being (in decending order of likely-hood)
1) The fourth C'Tan: The Outsider
2) A pool of thier combined thoughts (kinda like how ork psychic grow stronger when more orks are around)
3) A yet unseen HUGE Tyranid organism
4) Phil Kelly himself
5) The Emperor

My vote goes to Phil Kelly :)

TSINI
09-10-2009, 10:32 AM
lol, i for one am not really a fan of the whole gods and shizz, i mean, chaos gods i can bear, but all the c'tan and stuff, how old is a god, and how are some older than others...

Nids are like a swarm of Omnivorous locusts, they eat everything in their way. its like human kind now - but much much much much much faster. their ultimate goal, survival (albeit a very shortsighted goal - theres no planning for the future with these guys), which in turn means eat everything else.

the hive mind, is as it says, a hive mind, when a wasp stings, the others get riled up ad go stingy mental (its through pheromones etc). so maybe the sheer mass of nids working together, communicating through the warp and with vocal shrieks, makes them a communial hive mind. although you have to remember that its not just the little guys, the big ships themselves, cumulate a massive hivemind when theyre moving through space. and at the end of the day, its the big ships who get to eat all the sludge after the little ones finish their invasion, just think of them as the teeth, chewing up the food for the big ships, so reallyits the big ships who are the tyranids.

Inquisitor Soren
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
I personally find it hard to simply believe they are from another galaxy and where not artificially created by someone. They were extremely poorly 'equipped' when they first arrived in the galaxy from what I heard/read, so that makes it sound like they haven't conquered a massive number of galaxies, maybe one in my opinion.

The Emperor? Really guys? Why, it just doesn't make sense, if he wanted to kill himself I'm sure he could find an easier way...he is the freaking Emperor after all.

The Outsider? I don't see the support for this one anywhere, ok so they avoided his Dyson Sphere by thousands of Light Years, that seems more to me like a psychic null zone to me. What other proof is there? He is insane? Umm, ok so are the other C'tan if you look at it from a human perspective. Plus the Warp is anthem to the the C'tan I don't see how it could use it, or even where it would get the resources for it.

A pool of their combined thoughts: As for the hiveminds identity, I'd have to probably agree with this one it makes a lot of sense, to me at least.

Phil Kelly himself: ...lol?

HUGE Tyranid: This would be kinda strange but I suppose it possible that the hivemind could be a starcraft/starship-troopers like brain-bug thing.

The biggest glaring question if they did evolve naturally is, 'What forced them to have to do so to survive?'

Duke
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
The biggest glaring question if they did evolve naturally is, 'What forced them to have to do so to survive?'

I would have to say it had to do with holiday campers overuse of "OFF!" and "DEET". If only they knew what they were doing!

Lord Anubis
09-10-2009, 02:03 PM
I would have to say it had to do with holiday campers overuse of "OFF!" and "DEET". If only they knew what they were doing!

Heh. :)

I've always gone with straight natural evolution as the origin of the Tyranids. Although the threads here was the first place I ever heard the theory about a single Old One escaping off into another galaxy and creating them, and there is a certain appeal to that idea. However, I do think if that is the "truth," as it were, I think the bugs have far, far outstretched that initial point.

Think of it this way. Depending on what you like to believe, there's a fair amount of evidence that the "Krork" were originally designed with the idea the Gretchin would be in charge. They're the smart, wiley ones and they could lead the Krork as an unstoppable army of life against the Necron threat. But nature took over, thousands and thousands of years passed, and... well, that's not what the Krork are today, are they? ;)

If the Tyranids did start with the Old Ones, I'd say it was the same thing. Maybe some lone, half-crazed Old One escaped the C'Tan billions of years ago, found himself halfway across the universe, and created his own last-ditch resistance force. But between then and now, crossing a lot of time and space, they've become something very, very different.

Either way, I don't think anyone controls them. They're a hive. That's part of what's so creepy about them. :)

Sitnam
09-10-2009, 10:18 PM
Think of it this way. Depending on what you like to believe, there's a fair amount of evidence that the "Krork" were originally designed with the idea the Gretchin would be in charge. They're the smart, wiley ones and they could lead the Krork as an unstoppable army of life against the Necron threat. But nature took over, thousands and thousands of years passed, and... well, that's not what the Krork are today, are they? I think you got the two competing theories for Ork creation mixed up: The first is that the Snotlings (The variety smaller then Gretchin) ate a special kind of mushroom that made them soat in intelligence, giving their the brains to manipulate the larger Orks into spreading across the galaxy. When they ate up all the mushrooms, they were reverted into slaves. So the Snotlings were the 'Brain Boyz' of Ork lore.

The other theory is that the Old Ones created the Orks, or 'Krork', as a weapon against the necrons. But even they weren't able at the time to stop the C'tan.

firestorm
09-11-2009, 06:28 AM
I think it was either the old ones or the C'tan/Necrons.

In a piece of Necron background, it talks about them going in to self-imposed 'hibernation' (for want of a better word) because (after the war in heaven) there was a 'plague' spreading across the galaxy.

Going on that, and some other stuff that's in the Xenology book and other bits of background I've read I think it's plausible that the 'Nids were either developed by:

a) The Old Ones as a desperate gambit to finally defeat the Necrons & C'tan;

or b) the C'tan/Necrons themselves, as the Necrons hate all life, and the Hive Fleets have been known to avoid Tomb Worlds.

Either way, I think they originate from that time, and after consuming almost all life from the galaxy at the end of the War in Heaven, they drifted off to another galaxy to feed their.

Over Billions of years, they've consumed galaxy after galaxy, and are now drifting back to ours seeing as it's kind of got re-populated ;)

Faolain
09-12-2009, 09:10 AM
I think it was either the old ones or the C'tan/Necrons.

In a piece of Necron background, it talks about them going in to self-imposed 'hibernation' (for want of a better word) because (after the war in heaven) there was a 'plague' spreading across the galaxy.

Going on that, and some other stuff that's in the Xenology book and other bits of background I've read I think it's plausible that the 'Nids were either developed by:

a) The Old Ones as a desperate gambit to finally defeat the Necrons & C'tan;

or b) the C'tan/Necrons themselves, as the Necrons hate all life, and the Hive Fleets have been known to avoid Tomb Worlds.

Either way, I think they originate from that time, and after consuming almost all life from the galaxy at the end of the War in Heaven, they drifted off to another galaxy to feed their.

Over Billions of years, they've consumed galaxy after galaxy, and are now drifting back to ours seeing as it's kind of got re-populated ;)

The plague you're referring to is the Enslaver plague. They're totally separate warp-related entities.

Hive fleets avoid Necrons simply because they have no biomass to consume.

I think that the Tyranids are exactly what they appear to be- a race that began as a highly successful predator, which gradually became a super-efficient master of evolution by controlling their own DNA structures to reflect changing conditions and environments on their native planet. The individual predators shared a communal psychic link, which allowed them to dominate. The whole of their minds was greater than the sum of its parts.

As to how they got off their native planet, they either evolved space flight naturally after consuming all bio-mass on the planet (possible, but would need very guided evolution by the collective hive mind) or were found by another race from that galaxy who perhaps captured some sample specimens. From there they probably took over the space ship and eventually evolved their own ships.

There's my whole theory.

helline9
09-14-2009, 11:51 AM
I'm sure i've read somewhere that their expidential eating/ breading cycle turned their home system into one big Tyranid and the fleets into this system are that living bio-systems way of finding more food.

Rafe_131
09-17-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm gonna go with the StarCraft/Zerg approach. They were created by an ancient, no-longer-in-existence race that felt the need to "play god". The 'Nids were given a mutable genome in order to "super-evolve" to allow their creators to see progress on a much shorter time scale...Say a thousand years versus a million. They just....got out of hand, so to speak.

mathhammer
09-17-2009, 06:07 PM
The biggest glaring question if they did evolve naturally is, 'What forced them to have to do so to survive?'

Galatic Warming


sorry couldn't help myself.

Sasquatch1916
09-17-2009, 07:47 PM
The biggest glaring question if they did evolve naturally is, 'What forced them to have to do so to survive?'

Something even more powerful and horrible than the Tyranids themselves

Drew da Destroya
09-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Galatic Warming


sorry couldn't help myself.


The Imperium really needs to look into alternatives to their faster-than-light fossil fuels. Fusion just gives off too many CFCs!

dvs1
09-17-2009, 09:16 PM
Going by the timeline of 40k, I don't believe it's plausible that an old one created the nids to battle the c'tan and the crons. Mainly because tyranids weren't readily encountered by humanity until the time of the emperor, and even then it was more in it's recon- stage of development ( no hive fleet, mostly genestealers and related cults)The hive fleets did not become a problem until something like the early part of the 41 millenium. While it is speculated that there were in fact previous fleets throughout time, its not enough in my opinion to justify it only becoming a threat now. also, most other races would have long shared histories with the nids if they had a common creator ( much like how all the c'tan gods are in the nearly every races creation myths)
I would have to agree with the above posters that the nids look nothing more to me than super evolved locusts. They probably originated in a galaxy far from the one we know after consuming all the raw biomass in theirs. Since they come from such a far off place helps to explain their physiology being so different then what is usually encountered.

sangrail777
09-27-2009, 08:04 AM
I got it. they where created by one of the unknown Primarchs then the other unknown chased him and his hordes out of the galaxy. But know they have returned.........no, a lil over the top huh. sorry. just came to me and thought it was funny. Or could it be true........

Scoota
09-27-2009, 09:18 PM
Going by the timeline of 40k, I don't believe it's plausible that an old one created the nids to battle the c'tan and the crons. Mainly because tyranids weren't readily encountered by humanity until the time of the emperor, and even then it was more in it's recon- stage of development ( no hive fleet, mostly genestealers and related cults)The hive fleets did not become a problem until something like the early part of the 41 millenium. While it is speculated that there were in fact previous fleets throughout time, its not enough in my opinion to justify it only becoming a threat now. also, most other races would have long shared histories with the nids if they had a common creator ( much like how all the c'tan gods are in the nearly every races creation myths).

At the end of the Necron's codex, there is a little section that comes from Abaddon's perspective where he laughs at the MAchine Cult on Mars, as though he knows more about the 'Machine God' than humans do. If the Machine God is the Dragon C'Tan, then humanity only rediscovered the third Necron god recently (well, relatively).
It is possible that the Outsider could be the hive mind, trying to wipe out the food sources of the other C'Tan via the Tyranids, weakening them while It is feasting in another food-rich galaxy.

My money is on the Outsider as the Hive Mind.

Grotzooka
09-28-2009, 09:38 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I really don't like the idea of EVERYTHING coming back to the Old Ones or the C'tan. It's just so much cooler to think that a huge creepy buggy planet-eating race evolved WITHOUT a crazy elf-in-space whipping up a brand new species. Not everything is interconnected, not everything SHOULD be interconnected.

eldargal
09-29-2009, 03:38 AM
Exactly, less of the incestuous fluff. I think it makes for a far better story than the tyranids are a unforeseen and unplanned for interruption into the various pre-existing conflicts of the 40k galaxy.


I don't know about the rest of you, but I really don't like the idea of EVERYTHING coming back to the Old Ones or the C'tan. It's just so much cooler to think that a huge creepy buggy planet-eating race evolved WITHOUT a crazy elf-in-space whipping up a brand new species. Not everything is interconnected, not everything SHOULD be interconnected.

Xas
09-29-2009, 04:29 AM
I like to think that the tyranids are the heirs of the Old Ones.

Some of them went for the run in time so they were able to escape. Then they crafted a new, perfect, self evolving bio weapon to combat their old foes. But their situation as a race was much worse thant he eldar's today and so they had no chance at surviving themselfes.

Instead of procretination they all ascended to an energy based semi-consciousness and together formed the omni mind that we know as the hive-mind. over the millenia more and more of the charachter of their servants has leaked into the consciousness of the hivemind, forming the hunger that is their main characteristic.

mercer
09-29-2009, 05:55 AM
Evolved from another galaxy, as others have said, if the Tyranids had been around before they would have been mentioned i.e about Orks and Eldar working together when the Old Ones created them.