The Outcast Dead Discussion Thread - Spoiler Warning

[wittdooley]

So I just finished readin The Outcast Dead this weekend (review is written, our webpage is down. Doh!) and I have a few points of discussion that I'd love to bring up to ya'll lovely folks:

SPOILER ALERT


1. The Crusader Host - WTF is this. I've scoured and can't find reference to it anywhere else. Clearly these are older marines that are stationed on Terra as what... a council?

2. They make reference to the Death Guard dude being one of the originals... Does this mean he's one of the first Astartes engineered?

3. Hello Thunder Warriors. I don't recall this EVER being discussed. What does this mean for the Imperiam? Dhakal and Ghota didn't seem to be angry with the Emperor for 'abandoning' them, but where does this leave them now that they have the means to create the enhanced progenoid?

4. Yasu Nagasana - Clearly this dude is a badass. Trained by the assassin clades or not?

5. Severin. We've gotta assume dude escapes the planet, right? I don't recall there being any closure to him, and it's left rather ambiguous.

6. What are the implications now that we we're aware the Emperor KNEW he was going to fall to Horus? Is he aware of the Kabal's prophecy, then?

Discuss.

[Grailkeeper]

Skipped the spoilers (well tried to). How did you get a copy when its not out till November?

[wittdooley]

Released at UK Games Day and I'm not too proud to ask a UK friend to ship me one, despite the added cost.

BTW--- I hope you didn't read too much of that...I mean, it's pretty much all spoilers :(

[Grailkeeper]

I saw something about the crusader host but I didn't read it.


I also saw point 6 :(

[wittdooley]

Damn....Imma see if I can hide it somehow so others don't befall the same fate.

[Grailkeeper]

Put some text beneath it, I only caught it as I was replying to it and my eye automatically read the bottom of your post.

[Grailkeeper]

Finally got around to reading it. I figure Severin is with Babu Dhakal

[Denzark]

1. Don't know what the Crusader Host was. I figured some sort of honour guard so all Legions were represented on Terra.

2. Deathguard being original - weren't some of the Legions born on Earth, then linked with those on the Primarch home planet? Thats what i took this to mean.

3. I wrote this off as somewhat of a Macguffin as the implications of someone being able to reverse engineer progenoids simply by digging them out of an astartes, is clashing with all known fluff, including Fabius Bile.

4. Yasu Nagasena - supposedly a 'seer hunter'. Whilst kartono is his 'bondsman'. Because Kartono is definitely Culexus but working for someone else, I'll call affirm on Yasu being an assassin - I reckon Callidus.

5. I think it implies pretty heavily Severin is with Babu.

6. As to falling to Horus, it is somewhat of a false vision - he does afterall win. The implication is that maybe that is why the Emp doesn't unleash full power on Horus during the big scrap until it is almost too late - he thinks it is futile because of this vision. Or, maybe he knows it is a fake vision so isn't worried. So many Holodeck cop-out ways this could be explained - the HH writers have mysticism down to an art.


What I think is massive is the implication of Tagore World Eater - the book states he killed 359 of the group coming to subdue them! I hvae always rated astartes to humans at about 1:10, not 1:359!

[Grailkeeper]

1. Don't know what the Crusader Host was. I figured some sort of honour guard so all Legions were represented on Terra.

2. Deathguard being original - weren't some of the Legions born on Earth, then linked with those on the Primarch home planet? Thats what i took this to mean.

3. I wrote this off as somewhat of a Macguffin as the implications of someone being able to reverse engineer progenoids simply by digging them out of an astartes, is clashing with all known fluff, including Fabius Bile.

4. Yasu Nagasena - supposedly a 'seer hunter'. Whilst kartono is his 'bondsman'. Because Kartono is definitely Culexus but working for someone else, I'll call affirm on Yasu being an assassin - I reckon Callidus.

5. I think it implies pretty heavily Severin is with Babu.

6. As to falling to Horus, it is somewhat of a false vision - he does afterall win. The implication is that maybe that is why the Emp doesn't unleash full power on Horus during the big scrap until it is almost too late - he thinks it is futile because of this vision. Or, maybe he knows it is a fake vision so isn't worried. So many Holodeck cop-out ways this could be explained - the HH writers have mysticism down to an art.


What I think is massive is the implication of Tagore World Eater - the book states he killed 359 of the group coming to subdue them! I hvae always rated astartes to humans at about 1:10, not 1:359!


1. I figured something similar- Some kind of Ambassador for the legions.

2. I think all the legions originally came from terra, certainly deathguard did. However I think there is reference to him coming from Mortarions homeworld. I think he was of the first generation raised from that planet

3. I don't really know to be honest, He did see The emperor working in the lab, so if anyone could do it it would be him.

4. He's definitely not an assassin, there's loads of talk of his less than sparkling preios life- whereas assassins are trained from their youth, That doesnt mean he wasn't trained by assassin tho. Make yer own mind up.

As for Tagore I did think the exact same(and he was fighting elite troops, not conscripts). Maybe he used some kind of explosives or something, but that would be very against character.

[Psychosplodge]

1.could the crusader host be the escapees from Istavaan plus the any thousand sons on Terra? The questions on their loyalty were supposed to have led them to being locked up with their fates decided by the emperor post rebellion, although Garro's being the sigillitte's(that's spelt awfully) representative kinda undermines that.

2.I just assumed he meant either of the original Terran legion where they will have been a number, or of the first Death Guard inductees.

3.They didn't seem that chuffed either though. probably too limited in number when compared to either the custodes or astartes.

4.dunno. There was a definite celuxus reference so....

5. dunno

6.The Emperor is supposedly the greatest psychic humanity has ever produced, and I assume he's probably got either access to some elder relics or elder themselves, and probably knows they see possible futures when looking at future visions.

[Bigred]

1: Agreed, I think the Crusader Host was some type of "Legion Embassy" on Terra, with representatives for all the Legions on hand. You could see how how it would prove a sticky political situation post Istvaan.

2:I assumed they meant the DG was one of the original peasant-warriors trained by Morarion on Barbarus - the original "Death Guard" whom the Terran Legion "Dusk Raiders" was renamed after once they were reunited with their Primarch.

Also, the Thunder Warriors are up there with my favorite Bit Players in the series, along with Gramaticus, and Casper. I really want a big "Wars of Unification" coffee table book with a map of Unification-era Terra, and the original proto-legions, other kingdoms and enemies.

Its such a cool piece of background building. I can't imagine that Ghota and Babu won't be back with their own agenda, mucking around Terra during the novels during the Siege. That's gonna be good. You get the feeling they still respect and support the Emperor, but know that their time was past and he had to do what he had to do...

[Shadow Walker]

I second your wish of book about Wars of Unification. It could be somethink like HH:CC but with better art and with detailed maps and description of armament etc.