View Full Version : Improving Daemonhunters
Dunadan
09-09-2009, 01:00 PM
These are some rules I am working on to make the Grey Knights & =I= more playable as a stand alone army. My gaming groups main complaint is aimed at their survivability.
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
-Hellguns should have the following profile:
Range:24" S4 AP- Rapid Fire
-Hellpistols should have the following profile:
Range:12" S4 AP- Pistol
-All Stormtroopers should be equipped with a hellgun, hellpistol, close combat weapon, and frag grenades.
-Keep in mind that for only 1 more pt Sisters of Battle get 3+ armour, bolters, and faith points, and that for the same cost Firewarriors trade off BS & WS to gain a gun with +S2 and +6".
Grey Knights
-Change The Shrouding to read as follows: All successful wounds against Grey Knights must be rerolled. A psyker that passes a leadership check may ignore this rule(make the check every time the psyker shoots).
OR
-Change The Shrouding to use the new Night Fight distances and give the Grey Knights Artificer Armour.
-Keep in mind that Plague Marines for around the same points have defensive grenades, T5, and FNP.
Buy Land Raider variants, Dreadnoughts*, and Rhinos from Codex: Space Marines and Chimeras from Codex: Imperial Guard.
*Dreadnoughts may still replace their Stormbolter with an Incinerator for +15 pts, and may replace their Multi-melta with a Psycannon for +10 pts. They are still Heavy Support choices.
C/C
If you're going to change stormtroopers then just use the rules and points straight out of Codex Imperial Guard. As for the GKs themselves I'd 100% agree that their problem is that they die like regular marines yet cost a lot more. Giving them all a 2+ save is an option but I'd prefer to see a 5++ or FnP as the answer their surviveability, 2+ just feels a little too hard to kill with small arms whereas a 5++ or FnP just makes them harder to kill.
We've talked about GKs problems in my gaming group before and one thing we thought of as a way to make them a little more killy but not too much would be to give them I10 on the turn they charge by giving them psyk out grenades (this is actually in Vraks 3 on the GK redeemer in the form of psyk out launchers in place of the normal frag launchers). I'd also consider giving them all 2 base attacks and counterattack as well, bring the character stats more in line with the Codex: Space Marines ones except with one more attack. Oh and Brother Captains desperately need more than 1 wound, perhaps all GK terminators do. And shouldn't the characters be Eternal Warriors?
Either keep the shrouding as per the night fighting rules or if you want to make it more effective then something like models outside of 12" range reduce their BS by 1 when firing at units with the shrouding special rule.
that's my 2c for what they're worth :)
Dunadan
09-09-2009, 02:00 PM
The problem I have with the new Stormtroopers is that although their gun has nice AP, it suffers in the range and strength departments. IIRC, hot-shot lasguns in 2nd ed used to be S4. I would gladly trade away some AP for some S. Also, should I be comparing things to Sisters of Battle? Are they just really cheap troops that need to be more expensive?
Atrotos
09-09-2009, 06:54 PM
Hotshot lasguns are fine the way they are because it encourages players to take full squads instead of using STs as suicide squads. The real problem is that Storm Troopers are overpriced. Inquisitorial Storm Troopers should maybe gain WS 4 and be 12 pts each. you could then subtract Special Operations as no one wants to face 6 outflanking chimeras full of 60 storm troopers.
Lord Anubis
09-09-2009, 08:49 PM
While I'd agree the Inquisitorial stormtroopers need a little extra love, it's hard to make the same argument for the Grey Knights.
The thing is, the Grey Knights are an extremely specialized force. They're made to do one thing--fight demons. No, they aren't that great against the Guard, Orks, Tyranids--and they aren't supposed to be. It is an unbalanced list, and it's supposed to be. They are phenomenal against their specific foe and average-to-poor against everyone else. Just like Witchhunters are phenomenal against psykers but kind of "ehhhh" against your average horde army.
Yeah, they need to be tweaked a bit to cover the past few years of power creep and rules adjustment, but they've always been a very solid unit for what they are.
Just my thoughts...
Dunadan
09-09-2009, 10:31 PM
@Lord Anubis: True, this is why I'm more interested in trying to find a way to improve the stormtroopers, so that the Inquisition can be played as a viable army, with Grey Knights added a specialist unit to an army mainly comprised of stormtroopers. I'd also like the stormtrooper to be a bit different from guardsmen, 'cause otherwise I'd just play guard with allied Grey Knights.
Atrotos
09-16-2009, 08:02 PM
There's an important difference between Storm Troopers as Elites and Storm Troopers as Troops. Scoring storm troopers could be a nice attraction to Inquisitorial armies.
Dunadan
09-17-2009, 01:09 PM
So just use the exact same entry, complete with Special Ops and DS, and use them as Troops?
Inquisitor Soren
09-17-2009, 08:48 PM
I call for a complete redux of the both Codices, written by BoLSers, and call it Codex: Orders of the Inquisition. Both are neglected by GW and seriously need some love, I believe we as gamers are more dedicated to these armies than GW is. Seriously guys I think we have enough people that we can overhaul the codices and playtest them, probably more than GW does, and make a good solid codex for the Inquisition
Can I get any seconds here? Off to make a thread!
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