Space Marine command Squad question

[wolflold]

Hey,

The command squad has 4 veterans and a apothecary, but is the apothecary also a veteran? As in, can he take special weapons and stuff like that or is he just 'the upgrade' for the unit?

[Tynskel]

Most people say no because the name is different.

Same thought process with the champion.

[dvs1]

Agreed, only DA veterans are that special :p

[Archon Charybdis]

The apothecary is an apothecary, not a veteran. If he were a veteran he would be a veteran, not an apothecary.

To put it a less redundant way, if the composition was 5 Veterans, and then there was a rule saying "One Veteran is also an Apothecary and does X", then you could upgrade the Apothecary as well. As is, the unit composition makes it clear that the Apothecary is a distinct model from the Veterans, and does not follow the same rules.

[Wildeybeast]

I beg to differ with the previous responses. I checked with the staffers in my local GW store as I was wondering if I could tool him up the same as the rest of them and they told me that he was the same as the rest and could be upgraded accordingly, which makes sense to me. He is after all, a veteran in the sense of being a member of a company of veterans, he has exactly the same wargear and profile. If in doubt wolfold, check with your local GW store as I did and see what they say. They are supposed to be the authority on it after all.

[Old_Paladin]

The Apothecary cannot be upgraded.
He isn't a veteran, as his unit name isn't Veteran; he's called an apothecary.
He has a seperate line showing his stats; the unit composition for a command squad is 4 veterans and 1 apothecary; and his equipment is different from the rest of the members of the squad (he has a narthecium).

[Wildeybeast]

The Apothecary cannot be upgraded.
He isn't a veteran, as his unit name isn't Veteran; he's called an apothecary.
He has a seperate line showing his stats; the unit composition for a command squad is 4 veterans and 1 apothecary; and his equipment is different from the rest of the members of the squad (he has a narthecium).

His equipment isn't different, he has all the same stuff and also has a narthecium (which does absolutely nothing in game terms and is there for purely fluff reasons). I totally get the argument people are making about him not being one, I'm just playing according to what my GW staffers told me the rules were.

[Archon Charybdis]

His equipment isn't different, he has all the same stuff and also has a narthecium (which does absolutely nothing in game terms and is there for purely fluff reasons). I totally get the argument people are making about him not being one, I'm just playing according to what my GW staffers told me the rules were.

You're contradicting yourself--the Narthecium is a piece of wargear that confers FNP (it is not just for fluff purposes). For game purposes, that makes him a unique model. Even if he were just a veteran with a narthecium equipped, his wargear would be different and you'd have to allocate wounds to him separately. Beyond that, he also has a unique name and stat line entry. He is an apothecary, not a veteran.

GW Redshirts have absolutely no special insight into the rules and how they work, and in my experience are usually less reliable than going to the internet or a local veteran player for help. If that's how they tell you to play it in your store that's one thing, but if you play anywhere else or at a tournament you'll find it's considered a house rule.

[thecactusman17]

Models that have their own rules (in this case, their own statline) are not subject to the same rules as other models in the same unit. An apothacary is not a Veteran, he's an apothacary and his goal is to keep the actual veterans alive.

HOWEVER.

There IS precedent for upgrading a model to be another model. INAT has previously interpreted that since you are upgrading a regular model, you can take upgrades intended for the base model before upgrading him. However, note also that you have to follow the rules for the new model. So if you upgrade a Space Marine scout to Sgt. Telion, you can give him a Heavy Bolter, but Telion replaces all his gear with Sgt. Telion's gear. But if you upgrade a Dark Eldar Warrior to a Sybarite, you only replace gear if the Sybarite takes new gear (such as if he takes a Blaster, then replaces wis weapons with a pistol and CC weapon).

Some models aren't upgrades at all. In a unit of Eldar Guardians or Guardian Jetbikes, you can take a Warlock along but he is a new model introduced to the unit. This is why most Eldar transports allow 6 or 12 model capacity.

[Wildeybeast]

You're contradicting yourself--the Narthecium is a piece of wargear that confers FNP (it is not just for fluff purposes). For game purposes, that makes him a unique model. Even if he were just a veteran with a narthecium equipped, his wargear would be different and you'd have to allocate wounds to him separately. Beyond that, he also has a unique name and stat line entry. He is an apothecary, not a veteran.

GW Redshirts have absolutely no special insight into the rules and how they work, and in my experience are usually less reliable than going to the internet or a local veteran player for help. If that's how they tell you to play it in your store that's one thing, but if you play anywhere else or at a tournament you'll find it's considered a house rule.

Oops, I forgot about feel no pain!

I do think you are doing a disservice to the redshirts. The official GW line is that they are trained to be experts in the games and that rules queries not covered by FAQs shoud be directed to them. A friend of mine went through the training and it is fairly rigorous in terms of what level of hobby knowledge they need to have. In practice they obviously get things wrong sometimes, but if in doubt I and my gaming group take their word over the internet as at least it is officially sanctioned! I've always found them very helpful and knowledgable, but I guess they are only human and you've obviously come across some less helpfulones than I have.

[Fellend]

Oops, I forgot about feel no pain!

I do think you are doing a disservice to the redshirts. The official GW line is that they are trained to be experts in the games and that rules queries not covered by FAQs shoud be directed to them. A friend of mine went through the training and it is fairly rigorous in terms of what level of hobby knowledge they need to have. In practice they obviously get things wrong sometimes, but if in doubt I and my gaming group take their word over the internet as at least it is officially sanctioned! I've always found them very helpful and knowledgable, but I guess they are only human and you've obviously come across some less helpfulones than I have.

Can't say about your country but in Sweden, all you need to do is be female. You don't even need to ever have come into contact with warhammer. That's how my ex got offered her job

[Duo Sonata]

Apothecaries are not considered Veterans. They have their own profile and is noted differently in the unit composition, otherwise like others have commented previously a Command Squad would consist of 5 Veterans, one of which may be upgraded to have a narthecium. Arguing that an upgraded characters like the champion who was previously a veteran may hold some merit.

As for redshirts, they are salesmen first and wargamer second. They are trained to be knowedgeable in all of gw's games but not experts in them, not saying they can't be but I've seen far too many hobby center staffers be wrong on simple rules such as thunderhammers requiring that you cause a wound your opponent, and misinterpreting rules to think that things like lukas the trickster's last laugh removes entire units and not just models in base contact to name a few.