Beat this list.

[Slug]

Hello.
I have here a Nid list, you may now, thanks to the divine guidance of the internet, say you can, with just one lonely Space Wolf, make this list eat dirt, to top it, this isn't even a very hard list for Nids. So to the list.

Hq
Hive Tyrant heavy venom cannon 195
Elites
Venomthrope Brood x2 110
Venomthrope Brood x2 110
Lictor Brood x2 130
Troops
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Tyranid Warrior Brood x9, x8 deathspitters, x1 vennom cannon. 325
Heavy support
Carnifex Brood x3, x3 heavy vennom cannon, x3 adrenal glands. 585
1995 points

Basically, one big blob surges forwards under the cover of the Venomthropes whilst the Hive Tyrant and dakafexs try to at least suppress vehicles until they can get up and eat them, Gaunts swamp things until other stuff arrives, but this will change on the day. the warriors sit back and take objectives which may be assaulted whilst providing some fire support, the fexs and warriors can be split up if needed. Basically it is meant to be different to the foot guard list I have played for the last 5 years, as in I have to move more then one model a game. Also, most if not all units are picked because I like them, unlike Hive Guard, so I probably wont take the Carnifexes, Hive Tyrant, or Lictors out.

Now, why I posting this under, Beat this list, basically rather then list building advice I want you to tell me how with your armies you would take this list apart, be it super-competitive Space Wolves or a fun sisters army, I just want you to tell me my weaknesses that your army would pick on. You shouldn't have problems coming up with ideas I hope this is far from the be all and end all of lists I just want to know how people will react and hence what i should do in turn, and please be realistic, just because Heavy Venom Cannons aren't the most effective anti tank doesn't mean none of your DE Raiders will die.

[blackarmchair]

Well lately I've been running a loganwing missile spam list, I'll repeat it here with minimal detail:

+ Logan
+ Rune Priest
+ Lone Wolf x2
- CF/SS
+ Wolf Guard Pack x5
- Termie with CML, CF & SB
- 4x wg with combis
+ Thunder Wolf with SS/PF x3
+ Long Fangs Pack with Rockets x3
2k

So, the way I would handle your list is by laying 25 frag missiles into the 30-man blob squads and having the rune priest put murderous hurricane onto them so the entire mob takes dangerous terrain tests every time it moves/runs/assaults. Once it finally got into assault range the Space Wolves move into terrain and Logan pops his +1 attack and the whole army pretty much gets +2 atks (1 for logan 1 for counter charge) and you'll be going last due to a lack of grenades.

As for the Monstrous Creatures and Warriors I'm really not too concerned about them to be honest. Given the lone wolves, the thunderwolves and the spammy-ness of the missiles I really don't think I would have much issue taking them down.

Maybe my list is just a bad match-up? I do like the list, I think it's quite nasty for Tyranids.

[A Barb]

Lots of bugs=lots of Flamestorm cannons and flamers!:D but good list

[Demonus]

Well lately I've been running a loganwing missile spam list, I'll repeat it here with minimal detail:

+ Logan
+ Rune Priest
+ Lone Wolf x2
- CF/SS
+ Wolf Guard Pack x5
- Termie with CML, CF & SB
- 4x wg with combis
+ Thunder Wolf with SS/PF x3
+ Long Fangs Pack with Rockets x32k

So, the way I would handle your list is by laying 25 frag missiles into the 30-man blob squads and having the rune priest put murderous hurricane onto them so the entire mob takes dangerous terrain tests every time it moves/runs/assaults. Once it finally got into assault range the Space Wolves move into terrain and Logan pops his +1 attack and the whole army pretty much gets +2 atks (1 for logan 1 for counter charge) and you'll be going last due to a lack of grenades.

As for the Monstrous Creatures and Warriors I'm really not too concerned about them to be honest. Given the lone wolves, the thunderwolves and the spammy-ness of the missiles I really don't think I would have much issue taking them down.

Maybe my list is just a bad match-up? I do like the list, I think it's quite nasty for Tyranids.


Where are the other 8 missiles coming from? I count 15 from long fangs and 2 from CML.

[DarkLink]

At 2000pts, I'd have something like, give or take a few upgrades to match the point level:

Grand Master, grenades
10 Terminators, psycannons, brotherhood banner
2x10 GKSS, psycannons, psybolts, rhinos
10 Interceptors, psybolts, psycannons
3 Psyrifle Dreads



I would mostly ignore the hormagaunts, just soften them up a little bit. Let them charge me, I'll counter charge with my Terminators and walk through them. At worst I'll lose a squad as bait, and if you try holding some back then you won't have the assault punch to kill my Terminators.

The Warriors will die to psyrifle dreads. I just need to kill enough that their shooting is no longer a major threat, and I'm not afraid of them in CC at all since they lack lash whips.

The Hive Tyrant will get shot to death. So will the venomthropes. I'll probably just ignore the lictors, all my units can take them I believe, though I've never seen them played.



So, turn 1 most of the warriors are dead and the gaunts are softened up. Turn 2 I just shoot the crap out of anything in range, and turn 3 and after I let stuff assault my screening GKSS and counter assault with Terminators, or steal the charge with Interceptors. My Terminators then walk through the army, and I just need to keep as many of my power armor guys alive as possible.

[thecactusman17]

My turn, i suppose.

HQ
Baron Sathonyx
Duke Sliscus

Troops
18 Hellions w/ Helliarch, agonizer
9 Warriors w/ Blaster in Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield
10 Wyches w/ Haywire, Hek and Agonizer in Raider w/ Nightshield, Flickerfield
10 Wyches w/ Haywire, Hek and Agonizer in Raider w/ Nightshield, Flickerfield
5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Dual Cannons, Nightshield
5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Dual Cannons, Nightshield

Heavy
Razorwing Jetfighter, splinter cannon, NS and FF
Razorwing Jetfighter, splinter cannon, NS and FF
Razorwing Jetfighter, splinter cannon, NS and FF

Turn one is shooting time, focused initially on the Venomthropes from the Splinter Cannons. Immediately following that is one turn of massed fire vs. the Dakkafexes and the hive tyrant. The tyrant takes Darklances and Splinter cannons from the Razorwings and is almost immediately dead, having foolishly left his Tyrant guard back in the gestation pit. Where possible, the razorwings loose their missiles so as to double tag units.

Turn three, with the Tyrant, Thropes, and probably 2+ fexes down, I would turn my attention to the Warriors and Guants. The warriors will be easily dispatched in close combat by a single shoot-charge of the Wyches or Hellions. Remaining razorwing missile spam thins out the Hormaguants.

The Lictors might survive. I don't much care, because in this case I have almost certainly removed every significant threat on the board. Anything still alive is running without any nearby Synapse. I estimate this grand moment of triumph to occur at about turn 4.

In fairness, Tyranids are about the easiest army DE face. But at least now you know why.

-edit- I'm switching some stuff around to make a more generalist list that I might take to a tournament. This has been done by removing a small handful of Hellions and redistributing their points elsewhere. Previously, the Wyches didn't have haywire and the Hellions were numbering their full 20. Against the Tyranid list, the impact will be marginal. Previous cost 1991, new cost 1999

[Xas]

I'm playing DE.

My army consists of vect with a bodyguard of 4 grotesquen and a haemi.
2 10 man warrior squads with shredders and splinter cannons
1 10 man wrack squad with poison blade (2+) and 2 liquifiers

all in raiders with night and flickerfields.

2 razorwings and 1 voidraven /w 4 shattfield missiles
all with night and flickerfields

how I would beat you?

prolly by exploiting my mobility, firepower and your lack of synapse.
my fields give me a 6" range advantage over your long range weapons and I''d seek to exploit that to take allmost no damage from your anti-mech guns for as long as possible.

the game however would be decided in the deployment and movement phase cause any mistake would mean your immediate doom (say you bunch up your warriors -> eat 12 ordnance templates, stay outside of cover -> eat instakill lances, stray to far away from the pulk with a MC -> get lanced without beeing able to return fire the following turn).

as my DE list is built to exploit rather than follow a strict plan its hard to decide. one factor that would be crucial would also be my big HQ. you basically only have two units I might refrain from charging without softing them up bforehand: the 3 fexes and the big warrior blob. so basically at listbuillding you have to make a loss-loss decission with the fexes: either you have alllmost no chance against the grotesquen and vect or you can only shoot one vehicle at a time with them.

I see the biggest weakness lies in the concentration of your long-range firepower in a few expensive models coupled with basically not a single fast unit and of course only 2 synapse nodes.


with my fluff-astral claws it would however scare the **** out of me to see so many bugs advance xD
rough list is 3 tactical squads, 10 termis /w 2 cyclones, huron, (libby), 1 scoutsquad in storm, 3 thunderfires, 1-2 cyclone speeders.

with them my tactic would be to simply stand, shoot and pray. the termis would act as a shield/countercharge with the thunderfires laying waste with cover ignoring ammo into the gaunts while the missile do their best at killing first the tyrant and later as many carnifex as they can.

in the end it would prolly come to a heroic last stand of the termis VS the big bugs/warriors and the scouts trying something lunatic (like charging the remainders of a gaunt squad, shotguns ablaze) :D

hope it helps.

[Slug]

Hmm.
Dark Eldar I think will be the toughest because of their mobility and so hence it would be almost impossible to get the Carnifexs in to combat with them, I see the point about synapse, though to be fair the main purpose of most of the army is to charge forward, though maybe in a tactical manner at least, the warriors may need to split with three providing synapse six in a blob. My main counter to shooting is really just to try to get as many cover saves as possible, and if I can't get to terrain I'll have to rely on the 5+ the Venomthropes can give, which will be protected LOS wise by the big things, otherwise let the Hormagaunts soak up the wounds.
In terms of fire power, I realise that there is only a small amount in a large amount of points, but to be fair most anti tank will come from the Carnifexs getting into combat, so the HVC will be to stun/immobilise vehicles with the occasional destroyed result. also the Carnifexs will probably split up with them assulting vehicles then lending support to the Hormagaunts. In the end it's all a bit hard to say, the table and terrain can give me huge advantages, or if it's too empty it could kill, though if people insist on playing with no terrain then the foot guard will come out again. Still nice to see so many different ways I could get made to eat dirt, gives me some ideas. :D

[Xas]

a simple way to boost your synapse would be a tyranid prime.
hide him in the gaunts and voilla you have an allmost unkillable synapse node.
add boneswords and suddenly the gaunts whipe floor with termis'n stuff!

[Tynskel]

You lose fleet if you do that. Hormoguants have special fleet, too...

I think the list could lo the tyrant, and gain a prime. Drop the lictors and take biovores. Maybe squeeze some points and get a trygon prime.

[Xas]

You lose fleet if you do that. Hormoguants have special fleet, too...


TBH I was reading the gaunts as termagants all the time and the 90 fleshborers were worrying me the most for my raiders xD

still: losing a bit of speed to secure the synapse isnt a bad tradeoff. you could also make one brood into termagants and turn down into 1 squad of 3 venoms and have two perfectly viable spots for the prime. a prime in venoms is really good as he keeps them alive so much longer (absorb the first s8 shot from every source with t5, absorb the first ap4- round with his 3+ save, ...)

[slobulous]

This is my 2000 point Mech IG list

HQ:
CCS - 4x plasma guns, Chimera (ML/HF) 165
CCS - 4x plasma guns, Chimera (ML/HF) 165

Troops:
Veteran Squad - 3x meltas, Chimera (ML/HF) 155
Veteran Squad - 3x meltas, Chimera (ML/HF) 155
Veteran Squad - 3x meltas, Chimera (ML/HF) 155

PCS - 4x grenade launchers, melta bomb, Chimera (ML/HF) 110
Infantry Squad - 50
Infantry Squad - 50
Infantry Squad - 50

Fast Attack:
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130

Heavy Support:
Hydra Squadron (3) - hull heavy bolters 225
Battle Tank - hull lascannon 165
Battle Tank - hull lascannon 165

Total: 2000

I believe the Tyranid list seriously lacks long ranged anti-armor firepower. This is a major weakness against lists like mine that is easily exploited through a strategy of attrition. Only a small few of your units present feasible threats to my army when the game starts, while most of mine threaten you right away. Because of this, I can start causing heavy damage to you first, which then hinders your ability to cause damage back at a very quick rate. This IG list is capable of destroying at least 3 of the heavy venom cannons on its first turn if not all 4, and after that it's basically mop up. Turn 2, my Chimeras will meet your Hormagaunt swarms with their heavy flamers, ignoring the venomthropes' cover saves, and the Battle Tanks will be shelling the Warriors with insta-kill pie plates. Hydras will tear into the Venomthropes and melta guns and plasma guns will be waiting for the Lictors to arrive. Quite honestly, I don't see this Tyranid list lasting past turn 4.

I know you don't want to hear it, but some Hive Guard will really help you out.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

+1 on cactusmans list, mines pretty much identical

[blackarmchair]

Where are the other 8 missiles coming from? I count 15 from long fangs and 2 from CML.

Yeah...it says Wolf Guard Pack x5. Meaning there are 5x wolf guard packs each of which contain a Terminator with a Cyclone Missile Launcher.

[Yeahbuddy42]

I think I could manage with this list.

HQ -
Malanthrope (If you'd let me use it)

Elite -
Venomthrope X 3
Zoanthrope X 3
Zoanthrope X 3

Troop -
Ripper Swarm w/ toxin sacs X 9
Ripper Swarm w/ toxin sacs X 9
Hormagaunts X 20
Hormagaunts X 20
Hormagaunts X 20
Genestealers X 8

Fast Attack -
Spore Mines X 6
Spore Mines X 6
Spore Mines X 6

Heavy Support -
Biovore X 3
Biovore X 3
Biovore X 3

So the plan would be to spore mine the hell out of your troops. 18 spore mines deep striking, plus 9 more every turn is a lot of Large Blast templates to deal with.

I like a lot of Hormagaunts too. Rippers are a must with the Malanthrope, and Genestealers would attempt to attack the Warrior brood.

Zoanthropes would blast at your venomthropes and Carnifexes.

This is a list I have played with before. Didn't just come up with it to fight your list. I think it would be a pretty crazy battle.

[BinBen]

[b]We were at the edge of divorce when I decided to try this. Years and years without delight of ****** and sexual satisfaction. This could ruin any life but not ours. Female Viagra (http://vexron.com/) worked and I always keep the pill near my bed as nobody knows when my wife asks for more sex. By the way, kamagra pills (http://tunedump.com/) works not worse than brand, so next time I can save my money

[thecactusman17]

Hello.
I have here a Nid list, you may now, thanks to the divine guidance of the internet, say you can, with just one lonely Space Wolf, make this list eat dirt, to top it, this isn't even a very hard list for Nids. So to the list.

Hq
Hive Tyrant heavy venom cannon 195
Elites
Venomthrope Brood x2 110
Venomthrope Brood x2 110
Lictor Brood x2 130
Troops
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Hormagaunt Brood x30 180
Tyranid Warrior Brood x9, x8 deathspitters, x1 vennom cannon. 325
Heavy support
Carnifex Brood x3, x3 heavy vennom cannon, x3 adrenal glands. 585
1995 points

Basically, one big blob surges forwards under the cover of the Venomthropes whilst the Hive Tyrant and dakafexs try to at least suppress vehicles until they can get up and eat them, Gaunts swamp things until other stuff arrives, but this will change on the day. the warriors sit back and take objectives which may be assaulted whilst providing some fire support, the fexs and warriors can be split up if needed. Basically it is meant to be different to the foot guard list I have played for the last 5 years, as in I have to move more then one model a game. Also, most if not all units are picked because I like them, unlike Hive Guard, so I probably wont take the Carnifexes, Hive Tyrant, or Lictors out.

Now, why I posting this under, Beat this list, basically rather then list building advice I want you to tell me how with your armies you would take this list apart, be it super-competitive Space Wolves or a fun sisters army, I just want you to tell me my weaknesses that your army would pick on. You shouldn't have problems coming up with ideas I hope this is far from the be all and end all of lists I just want to know how people will react and hence what i should do in turn, and please be realistic, just because Heavy Venom Cannons aren't the most effective anti tank doesn't mean none of your DE Raiders will die.

So the primary problem with this list is that there are a lot of Synapse dependent units, but only a few synapse units unless I am mistaken. I only see the Hive Tyrant and the Warriors, I think the Carnifexes MAY also have synapse ability but I'm not sure.

One thing that could help your list survive longer: run the Fexes as three separate units. Now your opponent will have to direct their attacks at different targets, while as they are now a large number of S6+ shooting (or poisoned, in my case) is going to rapidly chew through all three models. Further, if they are synapse emitters, then you can spread them out a bit and have a larger synapse web. Finally, you can take each model and fire it at a separate unit This is very valuable because if you wipe a unit or lock a tank with a lucky shot, the excess can be directed at other models. Finally, a squad of Wyches or storm shield Marines can't just tie your entire unit in combat, you can even counter-charge with another unit in your next turn to help turn the tide back in your favor.

[trygonprime]

My nids list would have a fun time with this list. From the 40+ genestlearer and 2 trygonprimes to the Doom The army falls abapt by hitting one side and rolling it up in a wave. The doom would hit the gaunts close as possable to get two unit. next i deepstrike next to your warriors with my trygons while my ymgarls hit you venomthropes and lictor. the carafexes have to deall with the rest of my toxic genestlearers.