HORDES vs. well...not hordes I guess xD

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Hey fantasy lovers DBH again with some more questions for everyone!

I realize this can go in either tactics or general discussion, and I would prefer it to go here because I feel like this should be a more generalized topic rather than down home hard knocks competitive jargon. So with my further readings across the interweb, I've come across a common debate of running troops as hordes vs. non hordes. It is true dat Biggun's n Stunties (Orcs & Goblins) thrive on the horde aspect, as do several other armies with low leadership etc. And with the steadfast rule the seemingly common agreement is that footies are meant to be taken in horde formations in 8th. In paticular from what I've seen in my research in terms of the High Elves especially is to run a unit of 45-50+ Spearmen in horde formation. As it is the best way to stand up to opponents' hordes more easily with sheer numbers. a 50 block of High Elf spears with full command is 475 points just as an example.

Others, more inclined veterans feel that hordes are hit or miss for the simple fact that investing so many points into a single block count although has its benefits is way more succeptable to the plagues of war machines, mages, and bigger Line of sight target for flank charges etc, making the concept a bit of a gambit for certain armies, while others thrive off of it and actually need to be able to outrank their counterpart.

Of course I'm not suggesting this is anything new, because obviously the Fantasy Hammerverse has been around for quite sometime. I'm just curious, as to what other people think. Do you feel it is a gambit? That war machines and mages lick their chops at such a large target? Especially with template abilities being much more powerful than basically anything before? I'm curious to see the replies I get, and peoples thoughts. personally I'm abit against hordes in certain armies, but then again I've only really started the hobby less than a month ago.

The inquisitive n00b
-Dont-Be-Haten

[Wildeybeast]

Hordes mean you are sinking alot of points into one unit. They are effective but with clauses. Whilst it might be steadfast, it can still run with bad roll so it is risky. For armies like undead, they are a must as you can use them to soak up casulties due to unstable rules. Likewise for Skaven, due to LD boost. Goblins are fine as they are so cheap who cares if they die. For units like high elves, if you are going to do it, you have to maximise their chances of not running, which means a charcter in there and BSB near by. I play Empire, so the only horde unit I ever use is Flagellants who are quite handy in combat, so horde improves this, and they are unbreakable. I also have to say I'm not a massive fan of horde units due to their sheer presence on the battlefield, making them rather unwieldy when it comes to moving. I prefer units around the twenty mark, which give you more manoverability.

[gcsmith]

High elves can do safe elite hordes, expenisve but a 40 man Phoenix guard unit with immune to magic and AP is not to be sniffed at

[Lord Azaghul]

Hordes mean you are sinking alot of points into one unit. They are effective but with clauses. Whilst it might be steadfast, it can still run with bad roll so it is risky. For armies like undead, they are a must as you can use them to soak up casulties due to unstable rules. Likewise for Skaven, due to LD boost. Goblins are fine as they are so cheap who cares if they die. For units like high elves, if you are going to do it, you have to maximise their chances of not running, which means a charcter in there and BSB near by. I play Empire, so the only horde unit I ever use is Flagellants who are quite handy in combat, so horde improves this, and they are unbreakable.

Mostly this!

For Cheapo troops, espeically with spears hording is great - just looks at goblins with spears - lots of dice

For a unit like HE and Dwarves, ranks are far more important, so I run then in units of 30. 5 wide 6 deep

In a unit you want 1 of 2 things.
Staying power
Killing power

Hordes are closing to the 2nd due to dice volumne.
But for elite(ish) or pricey troops you want RANKS over horde

Slayers: horde! All those attacks & unbreakable - but rather pricey
Warrior: with GW: Ranks, 10 attacks is plenty and gives you a better option to flank
Warriors with shield: horde - if you have flanking units

Another thing to remember is you can always change you formation should you desire. Especially if you find youself needing more ranks.

[Chronowraith]

Hordes have their place but overall but tend to suffer overall.

Hordes are;

Usually very pricey when done with worthwhile units (Skaven slaves should never be hoarded).

Very susceptible to flanking units and multiple chargers.

Hard to maneuver and/or deploy

Usually wasteful in terms of attacks. By this I mean if you run around with a horde 10 wide, unless you fight another horde then you have several models on the flanks sitting around doing nothing.

Hordes are best used;

For defensive units who either don't move or can stand to be out of formation for a turn (spearmen)

For ranged units without the volley rule.

When playing against monstrous infantry

For charging multiple units

That's about it really...