GW response to Finecast

[eldargal]

From Warseer:

Funnily enough, at the White Dwarf subscriber seminar, Wade Pryce (Head of Studio press, the guy who makes sure we know nothing in advance), was pretty openly apologetic about the rollout of Finecast, admitting that they'd had a lot of quality control issues early on, and while it was better now, that if you got any Finecast model that you weren't 100% happy with, GW will not just will replace it, but actually want you to, so they can keep track of where they are going wrong and constantly refine it.


Encouraging to know GW aren't burying their head in thesand over the Finecast problems, as so many claim they are.

[Deadlift]

Although yes there obviously has been many problems with finecast, I have to say that the response I had with my miscast models has been nothing but positive. Models replaced no questions asked and shipped same day. The models without problems have been an absolute pleasure to work with and convert.

[eldargal]

I've not had so much as a surface bubble myself, but the miscast rate for Finecast in my gaming group is around 10% which is much higher than metal, so they are having problems. This is obviously anecdotal I'm not trying to make a point beyond my club having more miscasts before. But as you say the customer service has been outstanding, every one of those miscasts was replaced immediately.

[Archon Charybdis]

I was incredibly frustrated with my first finecast purchase. I bought a package of DE Wracks, and I was told by the internet to expect slight malformations, or some small surface bubbling that could easily fill in, while being enough for me to complain and get a second pack for free. Much to my dismay, despite a large amount of flashing, they were in perfect shape and I had to actually go pay for a second set. Thanks for nothing GW :mad:

Though seriously, it's nice to see them at least address it, and as long as they keep up the good customer service.

[wittdooley]

I've not had so much as a surface bubble myself, but the miscast rate for Finecast in my gaming group is around 10% which is much higher than metal, so they are having problems. This is obviously anecdotal I'm not trying to make a point beyond my club having more miscasts before. But as you say the customer service has been outstanding, every one of those miscasts was replaced immediately.

I think the 10% miscast rate (and we're taking about real, actual miscasts), Is pretty appropriate. I've purchase maybe 15 finecast models, and I think i've had 3 problems. One was a fill issue (the mold simply didn't get filled all the way, there was literally a straight line ending the model) another other consisted of some bubbling on detail on an Empire Schwarzhelm model that I couldn't fix. I just picked up Goglfag and he's got some problems with the maw. Bubble all over it that are going to be a pain to fix.

Other than that, they've been great.

[isotope99]

My finecast experience:

Huron: All fine
DE medusa: All fine
DE lahmian: the venom drop didn't work, but mostly fine
DE Incubi: 4 out of 5 OK, 1 pretty poor (using as a ruined statue objective)

Not perfect, not awful

[harveydent]

finecast is ridiculously expensive. if they really wanted to sell it they would have dropped their 'blister' prices when they released it instead of raising them *again* for no reason other than that it's a new product.

if they can make blister products from plastic, just like the Storm of Magic characters (why are THOSE so expensive?), then they can make all the rest of their stuff out of plastic as well.

if they don't quickly realize that their products are too expensive, and are driving retail shop profits down, they're going to really hurt themselves.

[wittdooley]

finecast is ridiculously expensive. if they really wanted to sell it they would have dropped their 'blister' prices when they released it instead of raising them *again* for no reason other than that it's a new product.

if they can make blister products from plastic, just like the Storm of Magic characters (why are THOSE so expensive?), then they can make all the rest of their stuff out of plastic as well.

if they don't quickly realize that their products are too expensive, and are driving retail shop profits down, they're going to really hurt themselves.

So, your only argument is "they're too expensive?"

First, "expensive" expensive is a relative term. Paul Allen could buy up all the Finecast he wanted and melt it down simply to spite wargamers. I find that Finecast models are right in line with their market comparable counterparts.

My second point is built into the first. Clearly the market has decided that the pricepoint of Finecast isn't too high. Believe it or not, GW employees people with advanced degrees whose sole purpose is to make these determinations based on statistical analysis and market research.

Third, and I'm adding this after reading your post again, but you clearly don't understand how the retail shop profits work if you think the "high" (your words) MSRP of Finecast is adversely affecting them. The retail shops pay 55% of MSRP as their cost. GW allows retail shops to give UP TO a 20% discount on their product before they readdress selling to the retail store. So effectively, and "high" costed Finecast model a retail shop sells at full MSRP only increases their profits, despite the higher buy in cost. A box that was $40, purchased at $22, yields an $18 profit. That box, if increased to $50 in Finecast, is purchased at $27.50 and yields a $22.50 profit, a nearly $5 increase. Finecast prices aren't hurting retail stores.

[Gir]

finecast is ridiculously expensive. if they really wanted to sell it they would have dropped their 'blister' prices when they released it instead of raising them *again* for no reason other than that it's a new product.

if they can make blister products from plastic, just like the Storm of Magic characters (why are THOSE so expensive?), then they can make all the rest of their stuff out of plastic as well.

if they don't quickly realize that their products are too expensive, and are driving retail shop profits down, they're going to really hurt themselves.

A common misconception is that if you half the price, you need to double sales to make the same profit. In actual fact, you have to almost triple sales.

For example:

$40 box that costs $10 to make gets $30 profit.
$20 box that costs $10 to make gets $10 profit.
2x$20 box that costs $20 to make ($10 each) gets $20 profit.
3x$20 box that costs $30 to make gets $30 profit.

[Uncle Nutsy]

with moulds that cost about 200,000-220,000 to make.

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Although yes there obviously has been many problems with finecast, I have to say that the response I had with my miscast models has been nothing but positive. Models replaced no questions asked and shipped same day. The models without problems have been an absolute pleasure to work with and convert.

I've had missing heads in some blisters, but GW always sends the parts. Quality is usually high with the sets, so I have no real reason to complain.

[oni]

I have not had any luck with Failcast. I bought the Librarian in Terminator Armour. It was pretty bad; a few air bubbles, some lost and misshapen details, but the biggest thing was the massive blob of resin left on his right shoulder pauldron. Called GW and they sent me a new one... 5 days later it arrives. It was so bad that I posted pictures of it on the internet and to this day it has set the standard for the worst Failcast ever produced. Of course I called GW about this horrific pile of **** they just sent me and had another sent out... 5 days later it arrives. Still has air bubbles, still has misshapen details. At this point I decided that I wasn't going waste any more time as I obviously wasn't going to be able to get a decent product and decided to just fix what I had.

I continually look at the Failcast models in every store I go to (I have handful around me.). Of the dozens of Failcast models I've inspected, I can count on one hand the amount that are usable without repair.

It's a **** product and GW should be ashamed of it.

Here are the pictures of the worst Failcast model to be posted on the web to date:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/oninopoo/Forum%20Pictures/2ndFailcastLibrarian11800x600.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/oninopoo/Forum%20Pictures/2ndFailcastLibrarian8800x600.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/oninopoo/Forum%20Pictures/2ndFailcastLibrarian5800x600.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h199/oninopoo/Forum%20Pictures/2ndFailcastLibrarian1800x600.jpg



To BoLS Mods... Seriously? Limited to 4 pictures including smilies? Lame!

[eldargal]

Yes that is awful, they certainly shouldn't be letting miscasts like that out of the factory.

[wittdooley]

To be very fair, the Terminator Librarian Finecast kit is one of the ones they universally had MAJOR issues with. So much so that they didn't even have it at Games Day Chicago because they, and this is what I was told, "were reworking the mould."

I'd encourage you not to base the whole of your opinion from your experience off of that one model.

BTW... Using the very clever moniker "Failcast" does nothing to help your argument.

[Lord Azaghul]

To be very fair...

BTW... Using the very clever moniker "Failcast" does nothing to help your argument.

As does using 'to be very fair' when it comes to any GW arguemnt! Especially where quality is concerned. ;)
GW should always mean quality models, the initial finecast release was a grave misstep.

On the finecast front, I just can't bring myself to pick it up yet. Part of the reason, I think, it the 'weight' of the thing.

All my gaming merchandising experience cries out against my old mentality of: it cost so much 'cause its so heavy, more to ship, metals used etc...
I just CAN'T pay 40$-50$ for an ogre character even IF the metal one USED to cost just as much. Hell I can't pay 18$ for the dwarf rune lord that I once bought for 11$ Every time I try to talk myself into buy a blister, I'll pick one up, feel the weight, look at the price - then put it back on the shelf.

Don't get me wrong - I hate building metal models (but I love painting them). I just don't think I get my value out of the new fc pricing.

[wittdooley]

@Az - Perhaps I'd have been better served saying, "GW knew this model was bad. It doesn't excuse that they released it in such a crappy state, but basing the entirety of your opinion on this single model that GW knew was lacking is foolhardy."

I own the new Ogre characters, but begrudgingly so. They are overpriced at $38. I usually feel pretty good about GWs pricing in terms of what else is out there. $38 is too much for the Firebelly, Gogfag, and Bragg.

Contrarily, I think the $57 or whatever is a pretty fair price for Goldtooth and Skrag. They're nice, meaty models that are probably worthy of the price based on their size.

[Lexington]

I hadn't been paying attention to the prices of Ogre models (aside from my Squiggalo (http://www.thediceabide.com/2011/08/way-of-the-squiggalo/), I don't need any), but $38 for a single miniature of that size is insane. The Firebelly is probably the best example of Finecast can do - too bad, since I can't see many people buying it for that cost. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish...

[wittdooley]

The pricing on them is so bizzarre to me. The Ogre Maneater models in finecast are only $24.50. That price seems really appropriate to me. Based on that, I feel like Golgfag, Bragg, and Firebelly should have been closer to $30.

You know what made me the most mad, though? That Bragg is in a blister. I paid $38 for a blister. I was a bit incredulous when I saw it, but my sorry *** still plunked down the change.

They say a sucker is born every minute.....

[Lord Azaghul]

The pricing on them is so bizzarre to me. The Ogre Maneater models in finecast are only $24.50. That price seems really appropriate to me. Based on that, I feel like Golgfag, Bragg, and Firebelly should have been closer to $30.

You know what made me the most mad, though? That Bragg is in a blister. I paid $38 for a blister. I was a bit incredulous when I saw it, but my sorry *** still plunked down the change.

They say a sucker is born every minute.....

I friend showing me that model when I was in the store last week: I though wow! That is really cool looking - what a fantastic sculpt...

then he remove finger as to uncover the price tag - my jaw nearly hit the floor.

GW does make great models, but pricing has broken my will to (impulse) buy them.

[Psychosplodge]

I think the 10% miscast rate (and we're taking about real, actual miscasts), Is pretty appropriate. I've purchase maybe 15 finecast models, and I think i've had 3 problems. One was a fill issue (the mold simply didn't get filled all the way, there was literally a straight line ending the model) another other consisted of some bubbling on detail on an Empire Schwarzhelm model that I couldn't fix. I just picked up Goglfag and he's got some problems with the maw. Bubble all over it that are going to be a pain to fix.

Other than that, they've been great.

So 20% then


A common misconception is that if you half the price, you need to double sales to make the same profit. In actual fact, you have to almost triple sales.

For example:

$40 box that costs $10 to make gets $30 profit.
$20 box that costs $10 to make gets $10 profit.
2x$20 box that costs $20 to make ($10 each) gets $20 profit.
3x$20 box that costs $30 to make gets $30 profit.

I can follow your logic, but if Models were priced at 1/3 of current I would be tempted to buy the quantity, whereas now I just struggle to justify buying anything, (If terminators were 50%-75% cheaper I would have a company sat in my display cabinet now....)


As does using 'to be very fair' when it comes to any GW arguemnt! Especially where quality is concerned. ;)
GW should always mean quality models, the initial finecast release was a grave misstep.

On the finecast front, I just can't bring myself to pick it up yet. Part of the reason, I think, it the 'weight' of the thing.

All my gaming merchandising experience cries out against my old mentality of: it cost so much 'cause its so heavy, more to ship, metals used etc...
I just CAN'T pay 40$-50$ for an ogre character even IF the metal one USED to cost just as much. Hell I can't pay 18$ for the dwarf rune lord that I once bought for 11$ Every time I try to talk myself into buy a blister, I'll pick one up, feel the weight, look at the price - then put it back on the shelf.

Don't get me wrong - I hate building metal models (but I love painting them). I just don't think I get my value out of the new fc pricing.

THIS ^^ the weight- cost ratiio just doesn't feel right after years of paying more for the heavier metal...

[wittdooley]

So 20% then


Well, no. I didn't elaborate enough. A few of them have been multi-piece sets: Vanguard Vets x2, Jezzails, Yhetees--thats 16 models right there, bringing the total up to 31 models.

Regardless, some of the initial errors have been unacceptable (see: Librarian, Terminator), but every model I have that was cast with Finecast in mind (Cockatrice, the new Ogre characters) is beautiful. The detail is simply top-notch.

I suppose I'm not old enough to feel any nostalgia about metal.

[Psychosplodge]

Well, no. I didn't elaborate enough. A few of them have been multi-piece sets: Vanguard Vets x2, Jezzails, Yhetees--thats 16 models right there, bringing the total up to 31 models.

Regardless, some of the initial errors have been unacceptable (see: Librarian, Terminator), but every model I have that was cast with Finecast in mind (Cockatrice, the new Ogre characters) is beautiful. The detail is simply top-notch.

I suppose I'm not old enough to feel any nostalgia about metal.

I just worked with the 15 and 3 in the original ost, 3 out of 31 wuld give the approx 10% so I'll let you off :D

[wittdooley]

Its my bad. I wasn't specific. :)

And I'll be honest: I probably could have fixed Golgfag, but I knew they'd just send me a new piece, so I didn't bother because my greenstuff-fu isn't that strong.

[Lerra]

I've been lucky. I haven't gotten any badly miscast pieces yet - just a few bubbles here and there that were fixable. I did get one mini that had large pieces of the mold still attached, though . . . I feel bad for whoever got the next model to come out of that mold.

[Psychosplodge]

greenstuff-fu

lol

[CitizenSoldier]

Strangely enough, the best FineCast example I have is a Librarian Terminator - other than a little flash, it was flawless. This is one bought just a week or two after the launch too.

The other models I have have suffered slightly from air bubbles, but nothing that was not quickly and fully addressed with a little green stuff. I never liked metal models, and I've found FineCast a joy to work with and paint.

What I don't like is how easily they get bent in an army box. I'm thinking particularly of a Lord Commissar - not a large model at all, but his sword is held high, and it doesn't fit completely into a tray slot. With plastic or metal, this was never a problem, but the FineCast one now has a wonky sword. Well, lesson learned.

Personally, I'll take FineCast over metal. I generally buy from a local GW store, so if needed I can cherry pick the blisters, or just open the box and directly exchange if necessary - I've never had to do this, but the store manager is an good sort, and offered that service up front.

Citizen.

[Phototoxin]

From Warseer:


Encouraging to know GW aren't burying their head in thesand over the Finecast problems, as so many claim they are.

...............eventually.

[oni]

To be very fair, the Terminator Librarian Finecast kit is one of the ones they universally had MAJOR issues with. So much so that they didn't even have it at Games Day Chicago because they, and this is what I was told, "were reworking the mould."

I'd encourage you not to base the whole of your opinion from your experience off of that one model.

BTW... Using the very clever moniker "Failcast" does nothing to help your argument.

Perhaps you should read the entirety of my post before suggesting how I should view this product. To reiterate...


I continually look at the Failcast models in every store I go to (I have handful around me.). Of the dozens of Failcast models I've inspected, I can count on one hand the amount that are usable without repair.

I base my opinion on what I have seen and the product does not meet my quality standards nor does its quality reflect its exorbitant price tag. Thus the product is (presently) complete and utter garbage. I remain hopeful, but until GW can correct the quality issues and I can see an obvious correction I will not purchase or promote the product.

FYI - Of the three Librarian's in Terminator Armour I had received all three had slightly different sprue layouts, but each had very different mold paths and vents. So while it was apparent that there was an issue and they were trying to correct it they failed at least twice.

[wittdooley]

And I'll reiterate:

I've somewhere in the number of 35 Finecast models. I've had problems that needed repair with 3.

[eldargal]

I have to admit whenever I see someone use Finecash or Failcast I just ignore the rest of what they have to say. If you can't express yourself intelligently without the use of stupid slogans then why should I think you have anything else of value to add to the debate?

[Morgan Darkstar]

I have to admit whenever I see someone use Finecash or Failcast I just ignore the rest of what they have to say. If you can't express yourself intelligently without the use of stupid slogans then why should I think you have anything else of value to add to the debate?

This is pretty much what I thought.

[Lord Azaghul]

I have to admit whenever I see someone use Finecash or Failcast I just ignore the rest of what they have to say. If you can't express yourself intelligently without the use of stupid slogans then why should I think you have anything else of value to add to the debate?

It IS very concise though! Rather then getting bogged down in all that wordiness - sums on their opinion rather quickly. Which doesn't make there opinion LESS valid - they are - after all - current or former GW customers.

[Archon Charybdis]

It IS very concise though! Rather then getting bogged down in all that wordiness - sums on their opinion rather quickly. Which doesn't make there opinion LESS valid - they are - after all - current or former GW customers.

Repeating obnoxious slogans doesn't lend the appearance of depth or critical thought to your position though. If you want people to take you seriously you have to actually use words, like a thinking adult.

[eldargal]

Concise but erroneous. It is the quality control not the product that is at fault, these miscasts shouldn't be leaving the factory.


It IS very concise though! Rather then getting bogged down in all that wordiness - sums on their opinion rather quickly. Which doesn't make there opinion LESS valid - they are - after all - current or former GW customers.

[Gir]

It IS very concise though! Rather then getting bogged down in all that wordiness - sums on their opinion rather quickly. Which doesn't make there opinion LESS valid - they are - after all - current or former GW customers.

It does it at the cost of making the person look like a complete moron, and therefore makes other people less likely to listen to their opinion or take them seriously. It's the same as writing posts in "text" speak or in all caps.

[Psychosplodge]

Concise but erroneous. It is the quality control not the product that is at fault, these miscasts shouldn't be leaving the factory.

Surely it's reasonably accurate, being a failure in the casting process...?
Or maybe "quality-failcast" to include the trollz(do they still have them?) in the quality control department....;)

[the jeske]

It does it at the cost of making the person look like a complete moron, and therefore makes other people less likely to listen to their opinion or take them seriously. It's the same as writing posts in "text" speak or in all caps.

not realy . it just summs up stuff in a nice and fast way . If someone says Failcast you know what he means by that . Sure of course he could write a 2000 words diseration on different miscasts people had around the world with pics and links to sites with reports about finecast being damaged etc . Only you would still stop reading it after the 3-4 sentences and just write that this is "anecdotal reports" and that your fine cast were all nice and good . You will never convince another person about anything on the interent .What you can make is to make the comunity laugh about the other people opinions and views . Failcast and a spiffy banner do that . people that may never buy a finecast models see failcast and smile . this is the moment when the "failcast' guys win.

In general it looks like this . Finecast was overhyped [the details are not that much better , neither are the models better , nor is it easier to convert when your counting stuff like model parts reconstruction due to air bubbles etc. ] , they should have never tie a new material for models and an all around price up for models and in general when GW says "we are not completly satisifed with X" they mean "sorry we droped the ball here" , it has been like that atleast since the end of 80s [I dont remember how it was before that] .

[eldargal]

Not true, Failcast has no meaning at all, that is the problem. Do they mean it costs too much? Do they mean the marketing was a failure? Are they referring to the quality control issues, or are they just anonymous f*ckwits whinging about a product they will never buy just because it is made by Games Workshop. Either explain your opinions or shut up, there is enough detritus on the internet without adding to it.

Also the idea that you won't change anyones opinions on the internet so there is no point forming a rational argument is so ridiculous it borders on the offensive. I'm not going to stoop to that level.

[Defenestratus]

Just purchased my 3rd Finecast product - Draigo. Mini has no imperfections that I can detect at all. The sword was very bent however and I needed to straighten it out under hot water in the sink.

So far I haven't bought a single Finecast model that I've thought needed to be sent back and this includes two box sets of Vanguard.

I think a lot of people don't like the price hike that coincided with the Finecast release and are projecting their frustrations onto this product as a result. There have been miscasts indeed, and GW has owned up to those - but from what I've seen - those days are behind us I believe from what I've purchased recently.

[Lord Azaghul]

Not true, Failcast has no meaning at all, that is the problem. Do they mean it costs too much? Do they mean the marketing was a failure? Are they referring to the quality control issues, or are they just anonymous f*ckwits whinging about a product they will never buy just because it is made by Games Workshop. Either explain your opinions or shut up, there is enough detritus on the internet without adding to it.

Also the idea that you won't change anyones opinions on the internet so there is no point forming a rational argument is so ridiculous it borders on the offensive. I'm not going to stoop to that level.

Its the internets (yes plural) you're supposed to be offended. ;)

And yes failcast does have a meaning. The general meaning is: I don't like the product - it is a failure to me.
Finecash, or failcash means: it cost to much.

Hope I cleared that up for you!:D

Just razzing you a little eldargal - sometimes you seem to take the frustrations people have with GW personally!


Side note: I"m starting to believe that the internet will be the downfall of civilization.

[Tamwulf]

It's really hard to have an intelligent, comprehensive discussion with someone that keeps saying "Finecrap", "Failcast", or any of a dozen other terms thrown around to describe GW's new model productions.

I don't like Finecast. More accurately, I don't like the price for an inferior material that breaks easily, and forces me to learn new techniques to prepare a model for painting. I don't like the fact that GW didn't even bother to make new sculpts- they just made the new molds based off the old metal ones. I have adjusted to it and learned the new techniques required. I wonder how long my paint job will last on the material though. As in the way it can bend and twist. Instead of paint chips, their will probably be paint cracks.

The anecdotal evidence presented here of a 10% miscast rate to me is unacceptable. The product is the exact same product made from a cheaper material, yet prices increased. The packaging changed- and is cheaper as well (no little foam pad, paper inset instead of cardboard). With the dramatic decrease in weight, shipping costs must have gone down. Basically, GW's profit margin has increased with the roll out of Finecast. Think about what a 10% quality control problem is like. Can you imagine if 10% of automobiles were defective? That's 1 out of 10 vehicles. Maybe the brakes will work, maybe they wont. 10% of aircraft? 1 out of every 10 aircraft may fly? 10% of computers? 10% of anything is very significant. GW needs to get this tightened up and get it down to something closer to 1%. This will require a significant investment in Quality Control, and I don't thing GW will invest the kind of money that will take.

It's great that GW is responding with a beefed up customer service. It's the only thing they could do. It's also the cheapest way to control the problem, not solve it. Any other response would have just made the problem worse. GW is going to have to step up their game though. I can't imagine the profit margin of the Finecast products exceeding 10% over the older models. Every time a model is returned to GW, they have to dispose if it. GW can't "throw it back into the vat" and recast it like a metal miniature. After studying the Material Safety Data Sheet and the process involved with making the Finecast materiel, you can't reuse it.

Finecast is made from two kinds of a liquid resin- Polyurethane Elastomer that when combined and properly set, forms a semi-rigid urethane resin. In it's liquid state, it's nasty, nasty stuff. From everything I have read, it's pretty difficult to mix properly. The stuff has to be used in a low moisture/low humidity, environment, and it is very sensitive to atmospheric pressure. It absorbs any water it comes into contact with and creates... bubbles! Yes, the liquid resin absorbs water and then forms bubbles during the casting process. This is in addition to the bubbles that can form from the regular casting process. Oh, and the Material Safety Data Sheet has a nice big warning about mixing water with the liquid products.

Why the chemistry lesson? To show that once the two liquid chemical resins are mixed, a chemical reaction takes place and tah-dah! Finecast (or it's industrial name: Smooth-Cast 65D, formerly Smooth-Cast Roto, or it's chemical name: Methylene bis(phenylisocyanate) and a stabilizing, non-toxic agent). As a side note here, GW does not make this product. They purchase it from an industrial chemical company.

In other words, every time someone returns a Finecast model, it comes directly out of GW's pocket book as they can't reuse the material. GW has two options: Continue with the status que of poor quality, or tighten up the quality control. The fact that GW doesn't even bat an eye and actively encourages people to return defective Finecast Products tells me the profit margins on it must be huge compared to metal. I expect the quality to improve over the coming months as the production staff gains more proficiency in the use of Smooth-Cast 65D, but I really doubt GW will add any more "Quality Control Inspectors" to prevent poor product from rolling out the door. The miscast rate will go down, but how much it goes down really depends on the measures GW takes.

[Gir]

not realy . it just summs up stuff in a nice and fast way . If someone says Failcast you know what he means by that . Sure of course he could write a 2000 words diseration on different miscasts people had around the world with pics and links to sites with reports about finecast being damaged etc . Only you would still stop reading it after the 3-4 sentences and just write that this is "anecdotal reports" and that your fine cast were all nice and good . You will never convince another person about anything on the interent .What you can make is to make the comunity laugh about the other people opinions and views . Failcast and a spiffy banner do that . people that may never buy a finecast models see failcast and smile . this is the moment when the "failcast' guys win.

None of this changes the fact that it makes the person look like an idiot.

[Lockark]

None of this changes the fact that it makes the person look like an idiot.

Agree'd.



Just razzing you a little eldargal - sometimes you seem to take the frustrations people have with GW personally!


I keep seeing people say this about Eldargirl, but I've never got that impression from her. I always read her posts as "I disagree with your oppion since it is at fault in respect to X. Z and Y". or "I belive my oppion is more correct due to A, B, and C." Her posts are always polite and never condescending.

In all honesty she's engaging in a legitimate discussion. I greatly respect her for the fact she will do this, even when it's obvious their are others who "can not" or "will not" do the same. (Not in this thread of course. Some of the more heated ones.)

Eldargirl never comes across as Fanboy/Fangirl banter. You just need to go to a video game forum to see that in action....
=P

I mean no offense to anyone with this. It's just something I find head scratching every time I see it.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Not true, Failcast has no meaning at all, that is the problem. Do they mean it costs too much? Do they mean the marketing was a failure? Are they referring to the quality control issues, or are they just anonymous f*ckwits whinging about a product they will never buy just because it is made by Games Workshop. Either explain your opinions or shut up, there is enough detritus on the internet without adding to it.

Also the idea that you won't change anyones opinions on the internet so there is no point forming a rational argument is so ridiculous it borders on the offensive. I'm not going to stoop to that level.

I am with eldargal on this one, using hyped up jargon thrown together by tweaking an existing name to make fun of it borders on the preschool level of making fun of something. It holds no intellectual honesty what so every, no real merit what so ever, and in the end just makes my brain cells die when I read it. I like to think that Wargamers are more mature and intelligent than a middle schooler, but I am constantly let down whenever the subject of finecast comes up. Yes there were screw ups, yes they are annoying, yes GW's quality control should be better, but using the term "failcast" to express your annoyance is about as intellectually honest as using the phrase "Adolph Hitler did this" to express that you think a position is immoral.

I mean come on...

[Slug]

not realy . it just summs up stuff in a nice and fast way . If someone says Failcast you know what he means by that . Sure of course he could write a 2000 words diseration on different miscasts people had around the world with pics and links to sites with reports about finecast being damaged etc.

Um, let's be honest here you could write a 2000 word "diseration" on just about any subject with pics and links to sites making something look bad, god that's the medias job and they already do a good enough job of it without help form anyone else. Even in Aus they manage to make it look like the the PM is physically gunning down people form her (yea that's right we have a woman in power bet you don't( and everyone hates her)) own party to stop them form taking her position, it's more about how biased your presentation is. I can easily say my Finecast experience has been perfect, every last one I have seen first hand has had zero flaws, but then again I've only seen one non store presentation model, pretty damn pointless eh.

Anyway on to the actual point of the thread, well lets be honest it wasn't the best release ever done, actually it was a bit of a f***up they could have and should have done it better. Ah how I now feel having criticized people who know more then me and have a much harder time of it. However, they did do an exceptional job at making up for that, not many companies would own up and accept any model with defections back. So I applaud GW (you can kill me when I'm done.) not for the release or the product (though I like the idea haven't had much chance to work with it however.) but for the reaction they had to customers, many a large company would have pretended nothing happened or been much more strict only accepting the worst miscasts.

[darthken]

my finecast experiance had been absolute garbarge.
20 wracks, 15 of which were too poorly cast for me to bother with. so a 25% success rate for me.

and now there selling liquid green stuff, from memory the small article said it is great for filling in bubbles and imperfections from casting. I know this is GW trying to make up for the fact that many finecast models have been poorly cast and slipped through quality control but.........

[eldargal]

Liquid putty is an extremely useful product that Forge World should have been selling years ago. There is a reason Vallejo is already selling it, if you buy resin models you will need it eventually as no matter how good the casting technique sometimes there will be surface bubbles.

[Gir]

my finecast experiance had been absolute garbarge.
20 wracks, 15 of which were too poorly cast for me to bother with. so a 25% success rate for me.

and now there selling liquid green stuff, from memory the small article said it is great for filling in bubbles and imperfections from casting. I know this is GW trying to make up for the fact that many finecast models have been poorly cast and slipped through quality control but.........

Sort of like how they sold greenstuff to fill gaps in plastic and metal models?

[eldargal]

You would be amazed how many people try and seperate the two. Surface bubbles are a by-product of working with resin, if they destroy detail then that is a problem. Metal models shrink and have mould lines and vent stubs that have to be filed down, this is a by-product of working with metal.

Eldargals Golden Rule of Resin Miniatures:

If it takes longer to prep for painting than a metal model of equivalent complexity, return it.

In other words if you are going to spend more time filling bubbles, scraping off flash or resculpting detail than you would filing down metal mouldlines and filling gaps between components, then it will probably qualify as miscast.

Plastic gaps usually aren't too bad, but liquid greenstuff/runny milliput/that vallejo stuff are all useful for fixing those, too.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

But that won't be a problem for you EldarGal, as you've never had so much as a surface bubble on your Finecast purchases - you're golden, right? ;D

In my opinion, some Games Workshop products ARE too expensive. I do not like that their character models are priced the way they are, it feels like I am paying for the intellectual property of the Codex twice over. I don't buy that they take a great deal more development or sculpting work than other things in their range. Some of them are far more elaborate, and perhaps should be a little more expensive due to this, but on the whole I think they're a bit much.

I also do not think Finecast should have been priced higher, at least not at the outset. It didn't sit well with me. Thus far, I have bought two Finecast items (after opening so many Terminator Librarian packs in store and seeing the manager basically send the whole stock back, I was less than impressed...), so the quality issue alongside the price increase has kept me away from it so far. Having said that, all accounts seem to indicate huge improvement, so perhaps the time has come for further purchases, perhaps I will see if the Tzeentch Herald is any good (a Blue Scribes conversion beckons!).

As for people calling the range 'Failcast' etc - so what? I do think that perhaps some forum users should perhaps treat these comments with the contempt they deserve and ignore them, maybe demonstrate the level of maturity you claim to possess? If you're above it, then be above it. Honestly, it gets more like a debate between Daily Mail readers and The Sun readers in here every week...

[eldargal]

I did actually state that I just ignore Failcast comments, in fact, the only reason I mentioned it was that Oni is a poster whose blog I look at and I have a lot of respect for.:)

I have had Finecast surface bubbles, just not anywhere particularly visible. Have I been lucky? I've no idea, we have no real idea as to the actual failure rate of Finecast. I have had surface bubbles on Forge World models and resin from other manufacturers, though, so I appreciate a productthat lets me fix it. Having said that, I will continue to steal runny milliput from my brothers runny milliput jar.

I too disagree with the Finecast price rise, but that is another issue that has little to do with miscasts. GW should have taken the opportunity, in my view, of lowering prices slightly to get a public relations boost or at least keep them the same.

[wittdooley]

my finecast experiance had been absolute garbarge.
20 wracks, 15 of which were too poorly cast for me to bother with. so a 25% success rate for me.

and now there selling liquid green stuff, from memory the small article said it is great for filling in bubbles and imperfections from casting. I know this is GW trying to make up for the fact that many finecast models have been poorly cast and slipped through quality control but.........

You realize how misleading your "statistic" is, right? You've had problems with one set. If you had multiple, unique Finecast sets, your "statistic" would be much better served.

Personally, I don't believe you, as the box of wracks my buddy opened looked great, but c'est la vie there.



In my opinion, some Games Workshop products ARE too expensive. I do not like that their character models are priced the way they are, it feels like I am paying for the intellectual property of the Codex twice over. I don't buy that they take a great deal more development or sculpting work than other things in their range. Some of them are far more elaborate, and perhaps should be a little more expensive due to this, but on the whole I think they're a bit much.


So please, kind sir, explain to me how the pricing of the character models falls perfectly in line with pretty much every other comprarable company. Avatars of War characters are almost the exact same price. You pay more for better quality; that's fairly common.



I also do not think Finecast should have been priced higher, at least not at the outset.

They weren't. GW just made the unfortunate mistake of releasing Finecast the same week as their price rise. The models, were they still in metal, would be priced at the same value as the Finecast pieces.

I think there are a LOT of people out there complaining about Finecast that have no experience working with any resins, and assume that any surface bubbles are an abnormality. They aren't people. I have BEAUTIFUL resin pieces from Studio McVey and Smart Max. They're amazing. But they both had surface bubbles. It literally takes 20 seconds to fill in, and it can even be done with super glue. As EG said, runny milliput is IMO the best solution (it just sands so well) but GW has even released liquid GS to help with it.

[rickyard]

Resin is not the same as metal, of course, but when you buy a Forgeworld product you're warned that "resin is for advanced hobbyist" They actually warn you that you may find bubbles, and of course it is a normal feature that people that, like myself, used to buy resin models from forgeworld. They even warn you that some pieces could be bent, or even broken, and you accept it as a normal thing. But GW sales are for children too. Will they warn the kid before the figure is sold? I really think GW shouldn't have done the finecasts models because resin were for advanced modelmakers, and now they pretend it to be the average material. They should have kept plastics and kept on plastics for everything, plastic is really durable, easy to handle, hard and easy to use, it doesn't bend, it is as easiest to paint as resin (same undercoat!!!) and way easy to cut, and of course it doesn't cause so much problems with casting molds. It is a far better material and i believe that most people doesn't notice the difference with details once the model is finished and painted.

[Uncle Nutsy]

finecast are in clear blisters, so you can see what you're buying.

but if you buy it, and complain that there are problems, you really have no one else to blame but yourself. you saw the bubbles. you saw the screwups. you knew what you were getting into and you still bought it. So I have no sympathy for you if you complain.

[mstersmith]

Glad they are working on it.

[eldargal]

Last time I checked Avatars of War were actually more expensivethan GW characters, around nineto eleven pounds vs eight.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

I don't collect or look at other systems models much, I have no interest in them. They did put the price of models that were previously metal up because they were now Finecast, and the annual price increase went on top of this. That's my memory of it. If I'm wrong, big whoop. Still too expensive for characters in my opinion. Don't care whether that's an industry standard or not, frankly.

@Wittdooley - dude, I'm not getting into that whole air bubbles debate with you again !!! :D That went on far too long last time :/ !

Not all Finecast comes in clear blisters, some are in normal packets. Often the miniatures in blisters don't allow you to see the back of the miniature. You have to take them out of the packet. Even though improvements have been made, I would still buy them in store, open and check them and return/replace if necessary. This is, of course, problematic for those who buy from discount websites - if you're not happy with the Finecast you get from, say, Darksphere, will they refund you postage and replace the item? So anyone as careful as me with regards the product they receive is likely going to be forced to pay the GW price for Finecast so we can be sure of quality. I guess that's the price you have to pay for perfection.

[CrimsonTurkey]

That's one thing I've always liked about GW. I've had boxes with missing parts and miscasts and broken sprues and they've always replaced everything free of charge. Hell, I got two whole sets of Space Hulk stealers because of some broken hands. The quality control is certainly subpar but the customer service has always been spot on.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I will say that of the three models I have bought, only one was so warped and melted on the details that I needed it replaced. It was my zoanthrope I bought to convert to a Doom of Malan'tai, and its teeth, eyes, and face were all borked up with melted resin in all funkey directions. It got replaced immediatly and with no question, which was so nice.

I am almost inclined to think that most of the people who "overlook" the stellar replacement plan are just feeling snubbed because their instant gratification was ruined. This is just a thought though, not entirely sure, but hey, we are all prone to disappointment when something we were looking forward to didn't work out.

[Gir]

I am almost inclined to think that most of the people who "overlook" the stellar replacement plan are just feeling snubbed because their instant gratification was ruined. This is just a thought though, not entirely sure, but hey, we are all prone to disappointment when something we were looking forward to didn't work out.

Also, people like complaining about GW on the internet.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Also, people like complaining about GW on the internet.

valid point

[the jeske]

finecast are in clear blisters, so you can see what you're buying.

but if you buy it, and complain that there are problems, you really have no one else to blame but yourself. you saw the bubbles. you saw the screwups. you knew what you were getting into and you still bought it. So I have no sympathy for you if you complain.

unless your buying from an internet shop or your buying a boxed unit and then you dont see what is inside.



I think there are a LOT of people out there complaining about Finecast that have no experience working with any resins, and assume that any surface bubbles are an abnormality. They aren't people.
only A finecast was advertised as being easier to work with then metal which it kind of a isnt and B not all damage can be fixed with a "bit of green stuff" . Sure bubbles [small ones ] yes. But what if there are parts of the models completly missing or when the shape and weight of models doesnt support them being made in finecast [am speaking about nid thropes here , they are very prone to snap in the middle of the model ] .

If this is a product that is supposet to replace metal in the future , then they realy realy have to work on it . I remember the metal change in the 90s and it was never that bad . flesh , mold lines yes , but missing faces or models breaking in half ? never.

[eldargal]

I'm sorry but your first point is nonsense. It takes a minute or two to clean a Finecast model of flash, mould lines and vents compared to many minutes with a file filing down the same on metal models. Not to mention how much more difficult metal is to cut compared to resin.

Try doing this in metal:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/NeilCollins_/Dark%20Eldar/DSCF4549.jpg

As to missing detail, that is a problem. Keep your receipt and email GW customer support if you have missing detail and they will replace your model. Then if you are smart you can try fixing the damaged one and you get two.;)

[Old_Paladin]

finecast was advertised as being easier to work with then metal which it kind of a isnt.
If this is a product that is supposet to replace metal in the future , then they realy realy have to work on it . I remember the metal change in the 90s and it was never that bad . flesh , mold lines yes , but missing faces or models breaking in half ? never.

I've never worked with resin and don't have any finecast; so I cannot fully comment on its production quality; that being said, it's still going to be so much easier to work with, it's not even close.
Of course by 'work with' I mean cleaning, painting (paint has always, always chipped off my metal models far too easily) and converting (this is the part that is so much easier to do that it makes any other problems laughable; I mean, come on, you can change the position of an arm with warm water!).

As for metal never having problems like loss of detail; I have a metal Chaplain that has no face, just a bubbly pit and a metal tactical marine that has no shin (the boot and knee are connected by a thin, ugly flow of metal; no clue how it was even possible). Not to mention the number of times there were joint problems (pieces not lining up right, not being the right fit, etc.).
So problems can always happen; but a softer, lighter material lets you solve those problems a lot more easily and quickly.

[the jeske]

As for metal never having problems like loss of detail; I have a metal Chaplain that has no face, just a bubbly pit and a metal tactical marine that has no shin (the boot and knee are connected by a thin, ugly flow of metal; no clue how it was even possible). Not to mention the number of times there were joint problems (pieces not lining up right, not being the right fit, etc.).
So problems can always happen; but a softer, lighter material lets you solve those problems a lot more easily and quickly.
only those were never mass problems . how many chaplains did you get with no face ? 10 -20 ? I had to go through 6 boxs of sternguard and in the end the shop owner let me pick singles from different boxs to have a unit . When you replaced the models , did GW send you damaged ones again ? They sent me 2 abadons[waiting for 3ed] first one had half a face[large bubble] , second having the horus claw bubbled witht he back side of the claw being flat and the storm bolter not realy existing . I hope the 3ed one will be ok . But again this is anecdots . I can say stories about bad finecast and you will say metal was just as bad [but they did have fewer returns back then] and that finecast is fine .

The problem is they did advertise it as better in every way then metal models .
Imagine a car company brining a new model of the car sayings its superior then everything they ever made [not bad in itself] and that this new model is the direction they want to take [again superior stuff always good] and that stuff will cost a bit more [even if they do say it at the same time they rise the price on all their other cars , which maybe a bad move] and then you find out that what your getting is neither vastly superior , nor easy handle with its own pre set problems which you can fix as long you buy that companies other products . yeah after that huge law suits would follow . False advertisement , selling of damaged goods etc . In the end unless they fix their procedures buying finecast models is a huge gamble , specialy the squads.





So problems can always happen; but a softer, lighter material lets you solve those problems a lot more easily and quickly.
it also means that big models if they get a big bubble are unfixable[which offten you dont even know are there before buying the model and it breaking ] and slim models end up with lacking and irreparable dmg to weapons or legs/arms.
Sure it is easier to "fix" meq big flat surface larg chunky humanoid model , unless they miss cast the face or weapon [which happens most offten] or something . But then you get something like DE models and suddenly without resculpting stuff the model just looks bad. But lets be frank . Would you buy a car/TV/PC , if you know there is a good chance that it comes damaged from the factory and while yes you can fix them[sometimes not] , when the TV/CAR/PC does not cost a lot less then PC/Cars/TV that dont ?

[Old_Paladin]

Your putting words in my mouth, that I never said.
You said metal NEVER had any problems; metal did have problems, it was pretty rare, but it could happen.
And poor joints and fitting was pretty common in metal.
Flash and tabs are very common in metal, and is much harder to remove then the same in plastic(ish) mediums.

Like I said right off, I've never bought any Finecast and my comments weren't about the production qualities; they've clearly had issues with many of the lots. They are clearly also trying to improve the quality. I never said that all the models were fine or had no issues; I'm saying that the ones that work (realistically at least 50% or higher), are vastly better from a hobby perspective.


Some people are also just over reacting; making the situation seem far worse then it is or needs to be.
You say you've needed 3 Abbadons, one bad head, a different bad arm. So instead of taking the good arm from one and the good head from the other and having a single model that works, you're waiting for a third that you hope has zero problems?

[wittdooley]

@jeske - simply put: I think you're a troll and I don't believe you. I have two boxes of stern guard and had ZERO problems. If the problem with that model was so widespread, I'd have seen something in mine. I didn't.

As for metal vs resin for GW: you realize you're comparing a 25 year old process to a year old process, right? They handled the initial QC poorly, but it has improved exponentially since then. Quit trolling and learn to articulate a cogent response that isn't rife with errors making it nigh unreadable.

[scadugenga]

Also, people like complaining on the internet.

There, fixed it for you.

Of course, we're all guilty at one point or another of that truism. ;)

[the jeske]

You say you've needed 3 Abbadons, one bad head, a different bad arm. So instead of taking the good arm from one and the good head from the other and having a single model that works, you're waiting for a third that you hope has zero problems?
shops work different way here . they wont replace stuff here unless you give back the damaged stuff, so right now am sitting on 0 abadons right now.
And before you ask me why am I not asking GW to replace . Well am still waiting for my skarr clan rat ogeres after they sent me the wrong ones 5 times[and then said they run out of the ones I wanted] . GW has a different policy as eastern europe goes .



I have two boxes of stern guard and had ZERO problems.
gratz to you.



As for metal vs resin for GW: you realize you're comparing a 25 year old process to a year old process, right?
and ? GW told it was better . Thats like saying one should not compare lets say ford cars to some other firms cars because Ford is 100years old [or close to it] and the other firm maybe 30.



And poor joints and fitting was pretty common in metal.
thats why large models [and generaly everything metal] was pined . I can deal with pining . I can also deal Finecast being damaged . But can you say the same for the new people that are starting the hobby ?
Do you know what happens when a parent is informed that the models he bought for his child need more then just glue and paint ? they stop buying stuff. It is bad for the hobby as a whole ,because those new players are the focus group for GW.

[Old_Paladin]

thats why large models [and generaly everything metal] was pined . I can deal with pining . I can also deal Finecast being damaged . But can you say the same for the new people that are starting the hobby ?
Do you know what happens when a parent is informed that the models he bought for his child need more then just glue and paint ? they stop buying stuff.

Wittdooley's right; I think you are just trolling and we cannot believe anything you say.

Two comments ago you said finecast sucked because they are too prone to snapping in half, and now you're talking about how easy it was to do pinning in METAL models (maybe pin the weakpoint in the finecast? and now it'll be a lot easier to cut and drill into resin then metal).
If you had to pin all previous center piece models and "generally everything metal", that is a huge issue; you need special tools for pinning and a pretty high skill level to do right.

Your arguement about needing additional supplies for finecast forces people to leave the hobby makes zero sense if just alluded that metal was just the same (needing a metal drill, pins and greenstuff).

[eldargal]

It would be worth noting at this point was that many of the stories of Finecast melting came from someone who pinned a thin resin part, the resulting extra thinness resulting in severe warping. This was misinterpreted as 'melting in the heat' and went viral or whatever the saying is.:rolleyes: The talk of pinning Finecast reminded me, let this be a cautionary tale.

My brother has an Azhag the slaughterer in Finecast and metal. The metal version has a dozen pins in it and still sometimes loses a wing. The Finecast has no pins and survived a three storey tumble from a window in our house.

Finecast is more durable (yes, really, thin bits break of metal easily too and are more difficult to repair), lighter, more easily converted and holds just as much detail as metal with the added advantage it doesn't shrink. When they get the quality control issue sorted, Finecast will be a superior product to the old white metal range.

[HsojVvad]

What is with all the complaining about Finecast? If you found something wrong, call up the 1 800 number and let them know about it. I finally got my first Finecast, a Venomthrope and it was missing the small vent of it's lower back. I called up and in less than 10 days, (they said it would be up to 10-15 days) they sent me a complete new Venomthrope at no added cost to me.

All I wanted was the vent but they sent me a complete mini. GW has excellent customer service. I talked to them nicely and politely. I said I hold them to a high standard with Finecast for the "premium" prices they charge and the person on the phone was nice and helped e out.

So I think people should just stop whining and crying about Finecast. Find something wrong, call up the 1 800 number. It seems GW wants everyone to be happy with the Finecast or any of their product so they will help us out if we have problems with their product. Yes we pay a bit more now, but GW does Stand Behind their Products.

It just seems people want to complain for the sake of complaining now.

[Lord Azaghul]

are we still talking about this? :confused:

[Emerald Rose Widow]

and ? GW told it was better . Thats like saying one should not compare lets say ford cars to some other firms cars because Ford is 100years old [or close to it] and the other firm maybe 30.

You keep making analogies to cars when talking about little metal models, and I don't think it is helping your case out at all. It is comparing apples to oranges, sure they are both fruit, but the similarity stops there. Not to mention a car company will only replace a whole car when there are MAJOR issues with the vehicle, and you must give back the old one first. Oftentimes GW will just send you a whole new model, even if the problems with your model were only minor. So your analogy isn't as apt as you seem to think it is.


Also you claim the small points on thropes are weaker on resin, and I know for a fact that they are not. For example the zoanthrope has a very weak connection to the part that connects to the base, and that was true on the metal part as well. Sadly due to the weight of the metal model that part was prone to weakening very very quickly, or if you put it down on the table too forcefully by accident. Or if you were showing off the model and the person handled it by the base instead of the body, the list goes on. This was a major issue for the zoanthrope metal model, and this issue is still somewhat there on the resin but not nearly on the same level. We are talking night and day difference here.

The Resin models are so much lighter that these joints, while still just as thin, are significantly more resiliant. You don't have to worry about it bending there nearly as badly, and I can assure you it will last far longer on the table than the metal model did in its time. Personally I plan to reinforce this joint in the way I am modifying my basing regardless, but still the entire model is FAR more resilient and prone to breakage at the weak joints, if only because it weighs a quarter as much.

[Deadlift]

are we still talking about this? :confused:

Indeed matey, its just going around in circles now. Finecast is here to stay and those who dont like it..... well dont buy it.

[Psychosplodge]

Indeed matey, its just going around in circles now. Finecast is here to stay and those who dont like it..... well dont buy it.

I'm not, but as I only collect limited stuff now days it's hardly going to register,
And it's just going to piss me off when I can't have the limited edition models I want because it's not in a material I like....

[Gir]

I'm not, but as I only collect limited stuff now days it's hardly going to register,
And it's just going to piss me off when I can't have the limited edition models I want because it's not in a material I like....

Why the matrial mean you can't have it? Has someone threatened to kill you if you ever buy finecast or something?

[Morgan Darkstar]

Why the matrial mean you can't have it? Has someone threatened to kill you if you ever buy finecast or something?

some people cannot accept change.

[eldargal]

So long as GW get their quality control in gear (which they are already starting to) these teething problems will be forgotten in a year or two. Except by the hardcore fringe of anti-GW types, but who cares what they think?:rolleyes:

Mr Darkstar has it right, people are afraid of change. There was quite a fuss when GW converted to white metal, too. WM was lighter, it didn't have the heft, it had fuzzy details, the price has gone up etc. and it blew over.

[Psychosplodge]

Why the matrial mean you can't have it? Has someone threatened to kill you if you ever buy finecast or something?

I simply dislike resin, why would I pay for something I don't like?


some people cannot accept change.

you're right I don't likechange, I quite like my rut thank you very much :P


So long as GW get their quality control in gear (which they are already starting to) these teething problems will be forgotten in a year or two. Except by the hardcore fringe of anti-GW types, but who cares what they think?:rolleyes:

Mr Darkstar has it right, people are afraid of change. There was quite a fuss when GW converted to white metal, too. WM was lighter, it didn't have the heft, it had fuzzy details, the price has gone up etc. and it blew over.

....... and I quite liked white metal rather than lead

[Lord Azaghul]

Indeed matey, its just going around in circles now. Finecast is here to stay and those who dont like it..... well dont buy it.

and that's where I'm leaving the topic! :cool:

[Wildeybeast]

Also you claim the small points on thropes are weaker on resin, and I know for a fact that they are not. For example the zoanthrope has a very weak connection to the part that connects to the base, and that was true on the metal part as well. Sadly due to the weight of the metal model that part was prone to weakening very very quickly, or if you put it down on the table too forcefully by accident. Or if you were showing off the model and the person handled it by the base instead of the body, the list goes on. This was a major issue for the zoanthrope metal model, and this issue is still somewhat there on the resin but not nearly on the same level. We are talking night and day difference here.


And that model alone is reason enough to justify FC. Anyone who has ever played Tyranids will be eternally grateful that the Zoanthrope has been finecasted. I hated my metal ones.

[Gir]

I simply dislike resin, why would I pay for something I don't like?

Because saying you "can't buy something" is VERY different to saying you "won't buy something".

[Emerald Rose Widow]

And that model alone is reason enough to justify FC. Anyone who has ever played Tyranids will be eternally grateful that the Zoanthrope has been finecasted. I hated my metal ones.

No frelling kidding, that alone made the zoanthrope not cryworthy.

[Psychosplodge]

Because saying you "can't buy something" is VERY different to saying you "won't buy something".

Yes because the secondary use of can't doesn't mean that,
I meant I can't get the models I want in the medium I want to work with - I knew what I meant anyway.

sorry forget that, what I meant to say was that my flesh will melt and I'll experience daemonic possession if I physically come into contact with resin... ;)

[Brass Scorpion]

Ogre Kingdoms characters are a minimum of $38 US each, some as high as $57.75. The least expensive single Finecast models for Ogres is $24.75, that adds up fast if you want a unit of Gorgers or Maneaters. The arguably best looking Ogre Finecast, Firebelly, has major mold and casting issues.

I made my own characters from the regular Ogre plastic range rather than pay the exorbitant prices for single characters in Finecast.

I don't see any less problems with Finecast now than I did when it was first released. Besides being for the most part terribly expensive even compared to the metal models it replaced, it is still necessary to open every package of it in the store before leaving because the need for exchanges is just as common now as it was the week they rushed it into stores. Quality control on what goes out of the warehouse is still a HUGE issue. I see complaints and exchanges all the time. I've been avoiding buying much of it, but the last set I bought just a week ago had a broken piece and the store manager graciously opened another to get me a replacement. The week before I watched them play "musical boxes" trying to get a good quality cast of a certain model for another customer. Certain models are bad every time because there are clearly flaws in the mold, yet GW continues to crank them out without first correcting the problem.

And some other ordinarily very positive people I know also felt compelled to discuss recent problems:
http://davetaylorminiatures.blogspot.com/2011/09/might-makes-right-ironblaster-and.html

And again, with a few exceptions Finecast models are even more expensive than their older metal equivalents. In many cases, significantly more so. The list of models I simply won't buy from GW now due to price is longer than ever before. I don't think I like where this is going at all.

[Lord Azaghul]

And again, with a few exceptions Finecast models are even more expensive than their older metal equivalents. In many cases, significantly more so. The list of models I simply won't buy from GW now due to price is longer than ever before. I don't think I like where this is going at all.

+1
And that's why I can't bring myself to buy it.

[Tynskel]

+1
And that's why I can't bring myself to buy it.

bah humbug.

GW has always been expensive. But the product has usually been fantastic.

I think finecast is a great step forward for the hobby: intricate detailed models that can be easily modified for conversion work.

When you look at it with that perspective, you are already spending a ton of money, because this usually involves lots of time, effort, parts, experience, and tools.

[templarboy]

Let me chime in...I just spent the better part of a day trying (emphasize, trying) to assemble a metal Blood Thirster I have had on the shelf for a couple of years. I can honestly say it is my worst modeling experience in 22 years. I would really like to see all the large metal kits transferred to Finecast. I just assembled a Archaeron the Everchosen in Finecast. Amazing detail and my 10 yr old helped me put it together. There were some small gaps on the horse. The new Liquid Green stuff took care of them easily. I heated and straightened the sword in about 5 minutes using my painting lamp as a heat source. On the other hand, the Thirster had huge gaps. The axe was bent. I had to put a 12 gauge rod through the torso to make it stable. I don't even want to talk about the wings. I can see that Mr. Taylor had some problems with that Firebelly he acquired. He is so awesome and I totally respect his opinion. I recognize the problems with but also recognize the virtues of finecast. Metal is not ideal for some figures. It just isn't.

PS-That Thrister will never be painted. It went back in the box and back on the shelf. I won't waste my time painting that wonky piece of garbage.

[leth]

think everyone needs to remember this when seeing the finecast comments. How many people post when everything was as expected? Answer very few. How many people post when there is a problem? Follow that path to its natural conclusion.

[Lockark]

Why the matrial mean you can't have it? Has someone threatened to kill you if you ever buy finecast or something?

I thought this was a funny joke, pokeing fun at his choice of word "Can't". Tobad we couldn't just leave it to that.

=P

[Uncle Nutsy]

I thought this was a funny joke, pokeing fun at his choice of word "Can't". Tobad we couldn't just leave it to that.

=P

of course you can't just leave a joke as it is. we're in the company of super nerds. the kind of nerd that looks for logic in EVERYTHING and can't help BUT pick apart everything you say. Over-analyzing everything and then getting bent out of shape, forcing a response from you to explain it.

irritating, isn't it? :)