PDA

View Full Version : What is in the Transport?



Drunkencorgimaster
09-08-2009, 05:28 PM
In a real battle, the enemy does not get to know exactly who or what is buttoned up in a transport vehicle. Out of sportsmenship I always announce which of my squads are being deployed in specific rhinos or chimeras at the beginning of a game. The more I think about it though, how would my opponent know which units are in particular transports? It seems to me that it might be fair (and fun) if I made a record of which squads are hiding in specific rhinos, put it in a neutral location, and let my opponent double-check it as troops emerge from my vehicles. I need your opinons. How do your clubs handle this? This is probably a stupid question, but keep in mind who is asking it.

EmperorEternalXIX
09-08-2009, 05:37 PM
Not to reign on your sense of sportsmanship, but I believe in 5th edition it is actually a rule to announce what is in a transport as it goes down.

It is the 41st millenium and personally I don't find it hard to believe at all that you can know what's in a transport. "Sir, we are detecting multiple high-heat power signatures from that chimera...looks like the power sources for three plasma guns, sir. Veteran issue."

What you suggest is, of course, perfectly fine and all, but I just thought I'd put it out there that I think it's a rule, though I may be mistaken.

TSINI
09-08-2009, 06:41 PM
this is where the fun begins, delve deeper into this train of thought and you can do so much with this game.if you have a friend or 3 that play regularly, feel free to add to the rules for realism sake.

my gaming group always used to use pistol strengths in combat.

we pretty much used true LOS way before 5th edition. apocalypse games were pretty much our regular playing style even in 3rd edition- no Force Organisation Chart, games over 6,000pts a side, no limit to what you can take (we all used to stick to a single army type but you get the idea) we used to regularly go off on a random tangent with weird and wacky rules.

playing on a planet with no atmosphere, playing on a heavy gravity planet, jungle, city, lava pitted volcano (with a dice roll each turn to see if it errupts), trying to de-activate a nuclear bomb, and one of my personal favourites - A-Bomb football!!

seriously bending the rules for games really isnt an issue between regular friends. also try "secret army lists" you don't get to look at each others army list till after the game. its on a similar note to the transports, how do you know what they might have in reserve? etc

Nabterayl
09-08-2009, 06:43 PM
It's ... mostly a rule. Page 92 says:


To keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the same spirit, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle.

Strictly speaking that's not phrased as a rule, but I think it's close enough for most people. Certainly we play that way.

Skragger
09-08-2009, 06:47 PM
We usually say what models are in what, it makes it fair and helps the owner of the transport remember too, crucial in large games!

Culven
09-08-2009, 08:03 PM
My usual opponents will normally have some way of identifying which models are in which transport (markings, post-it stuck to bottom, etc.) in order to prevent shell games, but we don't typically ask or expect to be told what is in each transport. Personally, I don't like my opponent knowing exactly which unit is the greatest threat and going after it. But that is the realism aspect rather than the "it's just a game" aspect.

RealGenius
09-08-2009, 08:15 PM
playing on a planet with no atmosphere, playing on a heavy gravity planet, jungle, city, lava pitted volcano (with a dice roll each turn to see if it errupts), trying to de-activate a nuclear bomb, and one of my personal favourites - A-Bomb football!!

I love special scenario rule; they are great for changing up a friendly game and usually make for memorable experiences.

If someone has the Chaos planet rules with the Slaughterbeast, I'd like to have a copy. And the Fountain of Blood... good times.

Mystery.Shadow
09-08-2009, 08:17 PM
I believe in Tournaments, you MAY read your opponents' list BEFORE the game. This way you have to out-think and out-play your Opponent rather than count on surprise.

For normal games of 40k, at my LGS we normally don't care. -And I belive it is more realistic to NOT know what's in the Transports. OR, if it's empty!

As mentioned before, technology should let us know what's in the box. But technology should ALSO be able to hide, disguise, or misinform enemies of what's in the box....

We play for fun. When the game stops being fun, I'll stop playing.

deadmanwade
09-08-2009, 11:12 PM
Knowing what is in a transport can really help your opponent (or you) out a lot. If there are three rhinos heading towards your lines, its better to know which ones are empty and which contains the vanguard/khorne bezerkers etc.
Also, the pre-reading of army lists and declaration of what is in a transport alone can nerf drop pod armies.
"Oh, you have drop pods filled with sternguard eh? I wont be deploying any models then. Enjoy your lack of targets!";)

Droofus
09-09-2009, 08:31 AM
I always tell my opponent what's in my chimeras/battlewagons. This is 40k, not a freaking shell game.

Hokiecow
09-09-2009, 09:49 AM
In a real battle, the enemy does not get to know exactly who or what is buttoned up in a transport vehicle.

Far from the truth. In real life we can tell what vehicles are command vehicles as well as the type and payload based on the signatures of the target. Your forgetting armies are going to be getting intel on who they are fighting so they know how to size them up.

Besides a Warboss is going to be towering out of a truck. ;)

DarkLink
09-09-2009, 10:02 AM
As the "note on secrecy" rule basically says that the players agree on the level of disclosure, if your opponent wants to know what units are in what vehicle, you should tell him (or her) unless you can convince them to let you keep it a secret. It is an optional rule insomuch as you and your opponent need to agree. You can't simply refuse to tell your opponent if they want to know. You both have to agree on how much or how little to tell.

In addition to the "note on secrecy" rule on pg 92, the deployment rules require you to announce how your reserves are set up. So you are required to tell your opponent how your reserves are going to work (what units you are using, if they are using deepstrike, scout, etc). This is not an optional rule, and is always in effect.

RocketRollRebel
09-09-2009, 10:16 AM
I always inform them as to what is in the transport and usually place the squad leader and/or character who is attached to them on top of the transport. Go Land Raider Surfing!

DarkLink
09-09-2009, 01:38 PM
I always inform them as to what is in the transport and usually place the squad leader and/or character who is attached to them on top of the transport. Go Land Raider Surfing!

I do this as well, though I usually don't place them on top during deployment unless the opponent asks. If they do ask, I will tell them what is in what.

On a side note, I once heard a player claim that you were required to model the squad in a opentopped transport due to the wysiwyg rules. Half the time, i don't even use my GK Brother Captain model with a psycannon because my Brother Captain Stern model is so much cooler, though if the opponent insists, I will. I've never met a player that had a problem with it, though.

Duke
09-09-2009, 02:11 PM
This is a great question. Though it is written as a suggested rule I think it is important enough to be considered a full rule. I, for one, appreciate it so that I know people aren't playing shells with their units "Oh, no it wasn't that unit in there... It was this one." (how convienent.)

I do agree with what everyone else pretty much said. If it is a friendly game and you want to suprise eachother "The Atmosphere is interfering with the auspex," then have at it (good fun).

Put simply though I like knowing that if I won it wasn't because I was cheap and snuck in an ace. Just my 2 cents

Duke

ChrisW
09-09-2009, 09:44 PM
I always tell my opponent what's in my chimeras/battlewagons. This is 40k, not a freaking shell game.

lol, exactly!

remember folks it is just a game.

Absolutionis
09-10-2009, 10:02 AM
Mechanized lists are prevalent as it is, we don't need yet another advantage to taking transports.

Plus, people mentioned Empty Rhinos. Rhinos can only be taken as dedicated transports. They must enter the field with their unit inside. Your opponent will see the units disembarking and/or embarking from the Rhino.

EmperorEternalXIX
09-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Actually there is no reason at all to deploy the rhino with its unit inside. Dedicated transports can either be deployed empty or with the unit that bought it inside; their only restriction is they can't have some other random unit inside. (Though aforementioned random unit can get into the tank as needed during the course of the game).

Ulf
09-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Around here we play custom rules most of the time.

- Units in transports don't have to be announced, unless the transport is open.
- Units in reserve don't have to be announced, you only have to tell if you have any reserves at all and which way they will enter play (Deep Strike, Outflank, "normal", whatever)

This makes it important to keep track of which unit is in which transport and which unit is which when it comes to rolling reserves. We usually end up marking each Squad on the army list with a letter, so you roll reserves for Squad C or this transport contains Squad F.

doskar
09-10-2009, 02:33 PM
Good question. I always identify what rides in what. I was under the impression that was mandatory with the 5th edition.

Drunkencorgimaster
09-10-2009, 02:42 PM
I always tell my opponent what's in my chimeras/battlewagons. This is 40k, not a freaking shell game.

Yeah, so do I (as I said), and it was just a question. I take it you are not with the State Department.

Wolfshade
09-11-2009, 08:20 AM
With the group of gamers I play with, we generally do the "Rhino surfing" (I like that phrase, hadn't thought of it before). Though when one of my opponets trys wave serpent surfing it doesn't quite work as well. Every so often we do do the non-disclosed thing and play pop the empty transport, though the important thing is to have it written down if you are doing this so that a) you can remember what is in each vehicle, and b) you can prove that it is fortuatous that nerfed transports don't contain the rear armour popping fire dragons.

We also ignore that a certain codex does not have access points on some of their transport vehicles :rolleyes:

Little Brother
09-11-2009, 04:15 PM
this is where the fun begins, delve deeper into this train of thought and you can do so much with this game.if you have a friend or 3 that play regularly, feel free to add to the rules for realism sake.

my gaming group always used to use pistol strengths in combat.

we pretty much used true LOS way before 5th edition. apocalypse games were pretty much our regular playing style even in 3rd edition- no Force Organisation Chart, games over 6,000pts a side, no limit to what you can take (we all used to stick to a single army type but you get the idea) we used to regularly go off on a random tangent with weird and wacky rules.

playing on a planet with no atmosphere, playing on a heavy gravity planet, jungle, city, lava pitted volcano (with a dice roll each turn to see if it errupts), trying to de-activate a nuclear bomb, and one of my personal favourites - A-Bomb football!!

seriously bending the rules for games really isnt an issue between regular friends. also try "secret army lists" you don't get to look at each others army list till after the game. its on a similar note to the transports, how do you know what they might have in reserve? etc

I like your style. Wish there were more people around who thought like you. So many people are obsessed with following what is written in the rule books. I liked what they put in the back of 5th ed about playing different games, with rules for different gravity and fighting in a vacuum, but unfortunately hardly anyone gives them more than a cursory glance. I think that the 2 major reasons for just playing standard missions time after time, are laziness and shyness, especially when playing a stranger at the lgs.

Thats why I like playing against the kids at my local store. Most of them don't have a complete army yet, so the force organisation chart and missions goes right out the window to start with. They don't seem all that focussed on winning, they just want to play a game, let their imagination run riot and have fun. So spicing things up with earthquakes, wandering monsters, carnivorous plants, dooms day devices and explosive atmospheres is just what they want.

I think I need to dig out my Rogue Trader and look at the suggested scenarios in there. Anyone remember Abdul Goldberg?

Sorry for hijacking the post. I think I will start a new thread.