Imperial Fists Terminators (Need Your Critique)

[Powerslave]

As some of you might know - recently I have been busy with my Imperial Fists Terminators. I really wanted to do a good job with them, so that I could be proud of the Imperium's finest Space Marines veterans. Overall, I think I achieved my set target - these guys look simply amazing. They have been upgraded with Forge World shoulderpads, and they have been set on their own custom bases (of my own mad design).

Guys - I really need some feedback on these bad boys. I am looking to eventually start painting up display pieces and I need to know where I stand. If you can please grade these Terminators on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being amazing super awesome and 1 being awful) and post all your critique here, I will really appreciate it. Thank you!

So without any further delay, I would like to present to you - the Sons of Roma. The IVth squad of the Imperial Fists First Company.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5210/img0631n.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/img0631n.jpg/) http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/img0631n.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img34/img0631n.jpg/1/)

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8470/img0658dy.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/img0658dy.jpg/) http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/img0658dy.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img34/img0658dy.jpg/1/)

They are named Sons of Roma - because they are direct descendants of those who once were the people of Roma (the first region where the Imperial Fists recruited on Terra). During a special mission, twenty four years ago, this squad was lost, alongside some members of the 3rd Company, who were supporting Imperial forces in the cleansing on two planets from the Tyranid infestation. Nobody knows what happened - but at one point all contact was lost. The imperial guardsmen, the inquisitorial forces and the Imperial Fists on the mission were pronounced dead after five years of search and rescue missions. The planets were contained and subesquently virus bombed.

No further questions were asked. Yet, in the recent few weeks, a group of Imperial Fists marines were spotted in the Cypra Mundi sector - almost immediately, the Chapter dispatched a battle barge to the area to find the lost marines, and to bring them back dead or alive - because nobody was going to be left behind. Yet, the Space Marines of the Raptors Legion have made the identification, and it is most probable that contact has already been made.

Only the Emperor knows what these brave souls endured for the last 24 years, and only He knows if their spirit is still uncorruptable and clean. The truth, no matter how horrid, shall soon be revealed.

... continued in the next post...

[Powerslave]

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1139/img0659ar.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/img0659ar.jpg/) http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/img0659ar.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img403/img0659ar.jpg/1/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1772/img0644st.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/img0644st.jpg/) http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/img0644st.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img41/img0644st.jpg/1/)

So, how did I paint them?

1. Prime the Miniatures and the Bases in White.
2. I gave them a basecoat spray of Iyanden Darksun (through my airbrush).
3. Then washed them with a homemade wash (from P3 Brown and Yellow Inks).
4. They were then highlighted by two layers of P3 Sulfuric Yellow.
5. The metallic parts were basecoated with Boltgun Metal or Tin Bitz, depending on the desired metal.
6. They were highlighted with Mithril Silver and Dwarven Bronze respectively, and then the first was washed with Badab Black, while the latter with Devlan Mud.
7. The Hammers were done exactly like that as well.
8. The red areas were basecoated with Mechrite Red, then given a second coat of Red Gore and highlighted by Blazing Orange - then they were washed by Baal Red.
9. The beige / white areas were done with P3 Menoth White Base (two layers).
10. The symbols, insignias and shield lines were done in Foundation Fenris Grey and washed with Azurmen Blue.
11. The eyes were done with Ice Blue and Enchanted Blue.
12. The lightning claws were layered from Foundation Mordian Blue, to Enchanted Blue, to Ice Blue, to P3 Frostbite.
13. The bases were all basecoated with Foundation Calthan Brown for natural areas, and Vallejo Model Color German Grey for any other material, like tracks or left over pieces of debris.
14. Then each small piece of debris was basecoated and washed with a complimentary dark wash of a similar tone.
15. Then - MIG Pigments. Mix Dry Mud, a bit of Abteilung Brown Oil Paint, and Track Brown with some Thinner for Washes to get a muddy substance. Put in more of the dry pigments than of other elements. Apply it to your bases where you want to have a lot of mud. Let it dry.
16. Once the mud is dry, apply Dry Mud and Industrial City Dirt to make color spots, and then highlight it all with Light Dust pigment. As you switch from pigment to pigment, do not forget to apply the Pigment Fixer.
17. Apply Standard rust to metallic elements, and then add a bit of Industrial City Dust or Black Smoke to show darkening and weathering.
18. Last touches - do some fading on open VMC German Grey areas with the MIG German Grey Fading dry pigment. It will give an impression that the material has been beaten many times and that many soldiers ran on top. Of course, do not forget to add a bit of everything to the feet - with the darkest pigments in the lower parts of the feet and in the crevices, while light dusting is at the top.

[Powerslave]

More pictures...

If you are interested in seeing more, you can always see them at my own blog at http://timeofending.blogspot.com

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2691/img0649z.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/img0649z.jpg/) http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/img0649z.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img43/img0649z.jpg/1/)

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5594/img0655mn.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/img0655mn.jpg/) http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/img0655mn.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img195/img0655mn.jpg/1/)

[Aldramelech]

Very, very nice. Id rate them an 8. If I had any criticism it would be the lack of a darker shade between the Armour, which would contrast nicely with the bright Armour color. For a display piece I would suggest the highlights around the edges to be more 'blended'.

You should be rightly proud of your efforts.

[themurphyfella]

[QUOTE=Powerslave;17418
Guys - I really need some feedback on these bad boys. I am looking to eventually start painting up display pieces and I need to know where I stand. If you can please grade these Terminators on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being amazing super awesome and 1 being awful) and post all your critique here, I will really appreciate it. Thank you!
[/QUOTE]

Howdy Mr Slave,
As gaming miniatures I'd give these a 7-8. They're painted using minimal one layer highlights, the details are neatly done and the bases are a step up from green flock :) You might have some of the new washes in there as well it's hard to tell

As display pieces. you're looking at Golden Deamon criteria and they predictably drop in score.
Things to practice for "next level" painting
More complex shading and highlighting.
Painted freehand detailing
Weathering
More complex basing
Conversions

And the ever more popular NMM ( non metallic metal)

If I was in your position I'd have a go at the more complex shading and highlighting next.
Cool mini or not have some decent tutorials on layering, wet blending and so on.
WD actually has some decent stuff in the masterclasses as well.
The euro version of WD had an ork master class in WD 355 that shows step by step a fantastic yellow with chipping and detailing that would be great reference for you if you can get your hands on it

[Powerslave]

Great feedback guys! Thanks!

Andramelech - I agree with you - I think that I need to add a darker tone in there as well. I will work on it over the course of my next projects.

Murphyfella, thanks for the pointers - I was looking for something exactly along those lines for feedback.

I think I will be trying to add more layers from now on - and will be jumping into wet blending as well.

Would you have any suggestions on how to start practicing Free Hand painting - because that is probably the worst and the most dreadfull part of painting for me, as I am utterly terrible in it. Also, would you have any sources to recommend for wet blending? (I ordered some more P3 paints and some drying retarders, so will get to practice a lot).

I will wait with NMM right now - first I think it would be more important to master multiple layering and wet blending.

I am awaiting my recent Forge World order, there I have the Masterclass book - so will draw new ideas on scenery and bases from that book.

[Aldramelech]

I'm a big believer in 'its all in the brush' when it comes to freehand painting. I have three sets of brushes at anyone time.

Brand new - Covering large areas
Used - Lines and edges
One hair left/knakered! - very fine detail

The same principle applies to my Dry brushes also.

[Warfare]

I noticed a couple of things:

#1-To begin with, i have to say i really am not a fan of your choice of basecoat colour as it looks pretty ugly. It doesnt really work with your highlighting either as there is too sharp a light/dark contrast for my liking. I think that either, you need to lighten the base coat colour to a more Imperial Fists looking shade OR put a lot of work into weathering them so that the darker colour is justified.
#2-USE WASHES! They really do make the difference between a good and a great model.
#3-Wet blending would look a lot better on the lightning claws than what you have at the minute.
#4-There is something about that colour blue that just seems out of place...

Overall, I would say that they are at a reasonable tabletop standard at the minute.

-On another note, while I would never advise someone against the FW masterclass book, it really is a masterclass and the techniques taught in there are pretty advanced (and i mean taking 'Eavy Metal paint jobs as a starting point then working from it sort of thing). It also doesn't cover much in the way of bases/infantry
although a few of the tips can be applied on them.

Sorry if this seems like a bit of a grilling but I have always found that being told where I needed to improve without beating around the bush helped me improve a lot faster in the long run.





//On the note of freehand skills, i would have to completely disagree with the above post. When I want to do freehand work, I always make sure that I have with me my newest fine detail brush. In my opinion though, freehand skills come with practice. Either test some designs on a rough piece of paper or on an old model but make sure to have a good plan of what you want to do BEFORE starting. Also, don't be discouraged if you make a small mistake as this is almost inevitable; just make sure that you have a a water pot available to quickly wash off any errors and a colour as close as possible to whatever you are paining onto that can cover up these errors without standing out.

[Lord Inquisitor]

The only critisicm I have is that you need to shade the blue. You just have it there blue.

[DarkLink]

I'd give it an 8. You have a very clean, high quality tabletop level paint job, and all that is missing is some more advanced techniques like freehand details and such.

[Lindargo]

Looking great, although the highlighting is a bit extreme.

[Aldramelech]

In fairness I have to say that Ive noticed when photographing my figures it does tend to accentuate the highlights.

[Gibbtall]

Fantastic, nice clean lines, bold yet not overpowering highlights, keep it up.

[vman]

I think they look great

I "had" an imperial fists army and i just got over the yellow, but i think yours look fantastic... I think a mustard color is better than safety yellow

I opted for Crimson fists instead, however if my ones looked like yours i would stay as imperial fists... yellow is just too hard to pull off without looking like a safety vest

Kudos to u mate

[Powerslave]

Thanks a lot for the positive feedback guys!

I will start working on more layering from now on, and will surely jump into building up some wet blending skills. I will try my freehand drawings on a piece of paper first - will have to practice.

At least I see that I have the basics on which I can build.

[themurphyfella]

Good to see someone interested and eager in taking the next steps in their painting technique.
I think you're on the right track with your next steps target for painting skills.
One thing to consider is working on a non-army figure for your practice. I find there's a world of difference in how I paint single figures and how I paint an army. I take a lot more time based short cuts when I'm doing an army.

Reference..... whooo there's lots
GW site - hobby articles. These guy's do really good step by step. Their "how to paint xxxx" series of books is actually pretty good and would work for you to transition from intermediate to advanced techniques.

FW masterclass , is not the one you want right now. It's fantastic but it's more focused on tank and vehicle techniques as opposed to single figures

WEbsites -
Coolmini or not. Clear a week in your schedule and just browse the pictures and read the articles and trawl the sites of the painters who post there. Your only regret will be that you do not have time to do all the idea's at once :)
http://www.coolminiornot.com/go.php?go=articlephp&aid=58&orderby=date&levels=99


Bolter and chainsword - great marine painting section

Youtube
I used never go here for painting tips but recently the level of tips and tutorials on the site is fantastic

Brushtralls
http://blog.brushthralls.com/
For a non GW focused trip through painting and converting this is one of the top sites with very nice tutorials

Privateer Press have a DVD that I highly recommend
http://privateerpress.com/formula-p3
The explinations on the web are great but there's just nothing like seeing the technique


OK I reckon that should keep you busy for a decade or 2 ;)

Be sure to send us some postcards of your progress

[Vulture]

The euro version of WD had an ork master class in WD 355 that shows step by step a fantastic yellow with chipping and detailing that would be great reference for you if you can get your hands on it

Hi there,

being from Germany I could try and scan said article for you if you are interested - just drop me a PM with your email adress. ;)

Regarding your request for critique... well, a lot of points have been mentioned already... your models look very nice for the tabletop but if you are going for display (and maybe contest) pieces there are a number of things you can improve...

One very basic thing is removing all mold lines, flash etc. from your minis... if you check the pic of the two termies with hammer and power claws (this pic (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VbEzo5nn8KM/SqZbpIewCLI/AAAAAAAAAJw/Qs3u28a8I-g/s1600/IMG_0658.jpg)) it seems that there is a visible mold line on the head of the hammer. The same on the arm holding the hammer. Be super nitpicky with this as it will kill your scores at contests!!!

The stark highlighting has already be mentioned... try to work up the highlighted edges with at least 2 or 3 colors. Generally you should try to put some more work into shading and highlighting... for example the skulls on the armors look rather flat to me, you should try to enhance the 3d structure of them with some subtle shading and highlighting. The latest WD with the Eavy Metal masterclass of Sergeant Lorenzo from the SpaceHulk box should give you a good idea about what I am talking, check how they painted the crux terminatus on his shoulder.

Hope this helps, if ou have any specific questions feel free to ask, I will try to help as best as I can.

Vulture

[Lamenter]

Nice technique, good quality finish. My only critique would be the use of blue instead of red, which is more recognizable as an Imperial Fists (secondary) colour.

[oni]

They look good, but I think the highlighting was taken a bit too far, it's more of an outline than highlighting. When doing extreme highlighting one needs to be very careful. If the extreme highlights aren't placed in 'natural' locations where lighting would naturally be at its strongest then the model takes on more of a Tron look and feel.

[BloodDemon]

Those look amazing! Love Imperial Fists and you gave it your own feel that makes it so much better.

[archimbald]

bout eight still like tho

[Powerslave]

Hey guys,

I took all your comments / ideas / suggestions and tried to incorporate them into my most recent painting project - a DKOK Death Rider. It was a good idea to take a stand alone miniature and just go to work on it - without any pressure of building an army or having to recreate similar uniform finishes and patterns.

Also, I was so inspired by the fact that my Forge World order (The Siege of Vraks Trilogy, the Masterclass book, and Red Scorpions stuff) arrived today that I decided to finish up my Death Korps of Krieg Death Rider.

I decided to try out a richer layering palette so to say - and took VMC German Uniform and went from its darkest version to its lightest - by adding in VMC German Camouflage Bright Green to achieve the highlighting tone and shade. I did the same thing with VMC German Grey and VMC Luftwaffe Uniform. In general it turned out very nicely I think - but still could use more work and effort nevertheless.

I also trying multiple layering on the steed with all kinds of VMC browns. Then I washed it all with Devlan Mud. Then - I used VMC Red Leather and some VMC German Camo Beige to achieve that redness of the skin where either battle drugs were being pumped or where the muscles were too stressed / inflamed. And once again, did a similar thing with the gas masks and the VMC Ochre colors.

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8446/img0670vt.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/img0670vt.jpg/) http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/img0670vt.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img38/img0670vt.jpg/1/)

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4528/img0674r.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/img0674r.jpg/) http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/img0674r.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img266/img0674r.jpg/1/)

[Powerslave]

Here are more pictures to show all the details, and for you to judge if I have been taking your suggestions into account - you guys have really helped me - and a big thank you for that!

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2154/img0678fp.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/img0678fp.jpg/)

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6360/img0664c.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/img0664c.jpg/)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5615/img0667h.th.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/img0667h.jpg/)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4193/img0669o.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/img0669o.jpg/)

PS - The FW Masterclass book is simply ace (amazing), and since I do military modelling as well, it's a pretty good investment.

[Aldramelech]

Nice, like that.

[oni]

He looks really good. I like that model a lot too.

[Vulture]

Hi again!

Before I start commenting on your DKoK rider I would suggest that you try to improve your pictures if you want to get good suggestions - in general your pics are too dark and the colors are off.

A friend of mine has a short but good article about taking pics of miniatures on his page, including pics of his lighting setup. Have a look here (http://www.theminiaturegallery.de/mainindex.html).

I did some work with Photoshop on two of your pics...

Overall it looks pretty nice but the skin on the 'horse' seems to be a little rough in places (maybe it's just the pic and corrections I did with PS)... how many different color shadess did you use? This (http://www.mordor.ch/swichert/miniatures/gallery/fantasy/rackham/centaur_1_2.jpg) is a pic of a confrontation centaur I painted back in 2002. On the horse I used a total of about 10-12 shades on the horse.

Another thing are the pouches around the neck of the horse - the color is pretty similar to the horse's color which results in the pouches blending in with the horse a little bit. I think it would be better to paint them either significantly lighter or darker than the horse.

That should be enough for now, if you manage to get some better pics I will try to give more suggestions.

Greetings,

Vulture

[Powerslave]

Vulture, thanks a lot for everything mate!

You have really given me some good stuff. Awesome!

[Vulture]

Glad to help - I still remember how much it helped me to get even such small hints back in 2000 when I started to work on my painting skills. ;)
So it basically is just paying back my dues from back then in some way...

Vulture

[Shadow Queen]

Have you thought of using pencils for the edging?

[Powerslave]

I actually thought of using pencils, but was a bit reluctant due to an absolute lack of experience in that department. Now that you mention pencils, I will give them a try. Any particular notes / suggestions on using pencils?

Also, I just finished the Land Raider Redeemer for the Terminators.

Here is the thread:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=1871

On that LR Redeemer I decided to try out Fading with oils and some advanced techniques, as well as a lot of weathering ideas and elements.

Once again, thank you all for your suggestions - I think over the last 10 days I have made massive progress, and now that I am starting to incorporate oils and fading into my painting, I think I am really moving forward (I just have to practice a lot).

Also, trying to experiement a bit with wet blending lately, I can say that it's working out nicely, slowly but surely.

[Duke]

Looking good so far, it is always nice to see people trying to paint Imperial fists and Horses (some of the most irritating things IMHO)

Duke

[Shadow Queen]

I actually thought of using pencils, but was a bit reluctant due to an absolute lack of experience in that department. Now that you mention pencils, I will give them a try. Any particular notes / suggestions on using pencils?

Also, I just finished the Land Raider Redeemer for the Terminators.

Here is the thread:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=1871

On that LR Redeemer I decided to try out Fading with oils and some advanced techniques, as well as a lot of weathering ideas and elements.

Once again, thank you all for your suggestions - I think over the last 10 days I have made massive progress, and now that I am starting to incorporate oils and fading into my painting, I think I am really moving forward (I just have to practice a lot).

Also, trying to experiement a bit with wet blending lately, I can say that it's working out nicely, slowly but surely.

http://redirectingat.com/?id=593X1004&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthepaintingcorps.blogspot.com%2F2 009%2F07%2Ffriday-quick-tip-colored-pencil-hard.html

[Powerslave]

I have just finished my version of Pedro Kantor. I painted him as if he was an Imperial Fists Chapter Master. I like good ol' Pedro a lot and I think that he is a good hero to lead my Imperial Fists.

I used a number of yellow layers on this miniature (to be exact 4 layers). I think he turned out very nicely.

He will be leading the Terminators and the Sternguard Veterans in my army (his +1 Attack will be very nice for Assault Termies).

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3629/img0744edited.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/img0744edited.jpg/) http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/img0744edited.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img9/img0744edited.jpg/1/)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2176/img0747edited.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/img0747edited.jpg/)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7695/img0749edited.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/img0749edited.jpg/)

As always, your comments and criticism are more than welcome!

[themurphyfella]

Wow.
That is a huge improvement in the quality of the paint finish. Really nice neat highlighting on everything on the marine figure.
Only nit pick would be the eyes.
Not sure if it's the pictures but they look off. Were you attempting to make them look like they're glowing?

On the horse, nice work. Like the other poster I had to run them through a colour correction. But I took the really lazy way and just used the autocorrect functionality in Picasa 3. Highly recommend it, you can't go far wrong with free ;)
As a practice piece it's probably not the best as you are introducing a number of paint challenges you don't get with power armour. Painting living flesh convincingly is a very tough thing to do. The problem is any piece of skin/fur gets it's colour from the actual layers of the material. So 1, it will change in a non-uniform fashion. 2. surface paint effects will not look 100% right.
If you take the horse's leg as an example for you. The layering is good but when you got to the joint and the lower part of the leg it looks like you got confused about where to put highlights and what level of light/shade to use. You also look like you did what I always do and fiddle with the transition. I find I do one piece with deep detail and I get a nice sharp fade from light to dark, then I go over to a piece with a more gradual light/shade transition and I do that. Then I fiddle trying to do the same transition on both area's. Which just confuses me and the paint job :P
Does that make sense?

[Whitehorn]

I won't give a rating - seems a bit silly considering the complexities of opinion and experience and you've improved since!

Terminators:
I think you've done a very clean paint job - both colour placement and actual brush strokes. However the highlights look like you took a 5 step guide and did parts 1 and 5. Your basecoat should be yellow. The more Iyanden colour you have should be the darker areas, not the base. The extreme highlights, while neat, could use another step or two to help blend from the browner base to the core yellow.

Pedro:
Much better - you've worked on making a nice blend of yellow across the armour. This could use a crisp, final extreme highlight on the tips though. Perhaps further shading on the face and underarms.

All my opinion of course.

[trjames]

I have just finished my version of Pedro Kantor. I painted him as if he was an Imperial Fists Chapter Master. I like good ol' Pedro a lot and I think that he is a good hero to lead my Imperial Fists.


Your painting has evolved in a very good way with this one. This is better than the terminators by far. I think that the main thing is that I felt that the terminators had the highlighting overdone, giving them an almost cartoon-like look. This is more natural looking to my eyes, and I think it's great!

Keep it up!