View Full Version : The perks of playing Dark Angels
angelblade
09-08-2009, 03:37 AM
With the wolves at our door and the panic of codex creep setting in its often hard to see the perks of our older codex over the shiny stuff given to the newer dexs, but i will try now to "show off" if you will some of the perks (and belive me they are good) that playing the unforgiven offers.
first i will start at the top with our HQ's
azreal : in my opinion he is the best chapter master out there atm, its possible when combined with a command squad and his banner to get 7 attacks out of him on the charge and at strength 6 there is very littel that will stand in his way, also the benifits he gives to his squad with the lion helm (4+ invun for all hes squad m8s) mean that you can take down targets such as faster striking eldar nastys without to much worry as you can garantee there will be some of your squad left to make them cry his pointscost is high at 225pts but worth it in my opinion
Belial: people knock him alot saying hes underpowerd for a special char, but lets take a different look at him lets see him as a captain, if you tryed to make the same guy in the SM or BA codex he would cost alot more than his meager 130 points + the ability to talor him for free to any situation "that demon prince worrying you well give him TH/SS befor the game, lots of gribblys to kill well give him twin lightning claws" but that is nouthing when he lets u take the ausome deathwing as troops "try shifting terminators off your objective after they have deepstriked onto it on T1" + the terminator banner is amazing in a unit full of lightning claws 5 attacks each on the charge and the apothicary being in the old style is amazing ignore 1 faild save per turn (any save!!!!)*small print: dosent work aginst stuff that would cause inst death but its still ausome
sammael: plasma cannon wielding jetbike riding insane biker dude of death thats immune to instant death dont think i need to say any more oh and bikes + attack bikes + landspeeders as troops
Ezekiel : im afraid im beaten on him he isnt worth his points im afraid :(
interigator and normal chaplain : our chaplians are still WS, BS and I 5 so there actualy good in assault unlike our rarly seen cousins in the SM codex
company master: can have twin claws a combi weapon and a plasma pistol on the same guy for 150pts nuf said in my opinion its a bargin compared to the SM codex
librarian: there a bit to random for my tasts with no invunerable save there flamer power is nice when it works though
next lets talk about our elites
we have the deathwing the big boys sure SMs can deepstrike T1 but not like us there just somthing far more scary about deathwing assault than the drop pods, not to mention if you have taken belial then you can capture almost all the objectives on the board on T1 + DW termies are fearless normal termies arnt and we can mix wepons in squads giving us great utility
are dreadnoughts are a bargin at 125pts with all but the lascannon weapon upgrade being free plasma cannon dreds do rock the realy do
company vets are a bit exspensive for my tastes but 3 power weapons when applyed correctly can turn a game around
scouts are elites for us but we do get the bs4 ws 4 versions which does make a big differance when theres 10 of them with sniper rifles
our troops are pritty bog standerd only deviance is our 5 man squads can still have a special weapon so are actualy worth taking
now our fast attack the men in black them selves the raven wing
we have possible the most amazing fast attack ever if you dont take sam for 1 fast attack slot u get 6 bikers 1 speeder and 1 attack bike that can be all broken down through combat squads thats 18 bikers 3 speeders and 3 attack bikes for 3 fast attack slots, in the SM codex that would be 9 slots
+ the bikes are fearless and have scout
a few over view points
our comanders still ahve rites of battel this sint such a big deal as alot of our stuff is fearless which combines to make darkangels a very tough army to break
sorry if ive made any spelling mistakes or punctuation errors im dyslexic it took me forever to write all this lol :P
Diagnosis Ninja
09-08-2009, 05:42 AM
Nice to see someone making Lemonade from the DA Codex, instead of biting into the lemon and complaining :)
At the end of the day, I still prefer the DA Marines, even if they're 20 points more expensive per squad. So what? The battle is decided with tactics, not list efficiency, averages and math hammer. On top of that, we still get Rites of Battle, have nice Librarian powers, even if the offensive one is pretty random, and still have Combat Squads and ATSKNF. Good stuff ^^
Aenir
09-08-2009, 07:31 AM
I would have to disagree about ezekiel, it actually happens that other than belial, ezekiel is my most used character, i plop him behind some cover, and when a big monster comes out, you hit 'em with mind worm, Ive gotten rid of a carnifex, and the Nightbringer that way. I will admit as a normal character hes a bit weak, but the ability to instantly remove a model is gold.
Oh, you have a unit with a nasty character charging me?
well *rolls dice* make a test or you no longer have that character :)
Inquisitor Soren
09-08-2009, 07:55 AM
I gotta admit I'm in love with Ezekiel, in the few small games I've played with my few DAs he's absorbed more fire power than a land raider, twice over, passing numerous saves while killing a Emperor's Champion, Necron Lord (without scythe), and a Battle Suit Commander, in admitidly different games.
The DA codex still has a few tricks the special weapon in a 5-man sqaud actually being fairly useful in smaller games, my only gripe happens to be with the ravenwing in the lack of assault cannons, though I can't say they are bad I wish I could have more than a handful.
DA Chaplins are still wonderful, wonderful things and the look on your friends face the first time they see his stats is enough to brighten your day. The debate between my friends and myself is updating all the rules in the codex to be in line with codex SM, equipment at the very least, though is an interesting concept with TH/SS combo, one that makes me smile, I think we will probably stay the way we are now.
I do thnk Sam is probbly a better buy on the speeder though, AV 14 speeders with 4+ Dodge are the things dreams are made out of...
Kais10
09-08-2009, 09:48 AM
I love my DA, but sometimes I wish we had some rules updates to wargear such as cyclone missile launcher (it has 2 shots now I believe? correct me if I'mwrong, don'thave codex in front of me), TH/SS is probably the most obviously debated difference between C:SM and DA wargear, and I am not entirely sure whether I would prefer having the old apoth. rules vs the new ones as FNP is rather scary (especially if you take belial's termi-apoth upgrade).
However, I do love the advantages of DW assault and the fact that our bikers carry around free teleport homers! Also, you have to love the stat line differences mentioned by angelblade. All in all, who wouldnt love to see us get updated rules! but then again we have strengths,in terms of DW and RW, which far outweigh the weaknesses.
Diagnosis Ninja
09-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Sammael's Land Speeder/Raider is awesome. I absolutely love it. Usually acts as the centre of my fireline if I play Ravenwing.
Might have to try out Ezekiel if he's as good as you guys say :) Might be worth a test or two.
Denzark
09-08-2009, 09:53 AM
I like this post. I was worried at first - you know the way a long topic displays just the first few words? All I could see was 'the perks of playing dark...' I was therefore worried this was going to be another dark eldar diatribe.
Good to see that you have not whined once about the age of the codex and are just getting on with it bringing death to the emperor's enemies.
The only way you could have improved (for my tuppence' worth) would have been to finish in large point like this:
SO IN YOUR FACES XENOS SCUM I WILL CLEANSE YOUR FILTH IN PURGE FIRES
Chumbalaya
09-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Leomonade without sugar is just as sour.
Azrael: WS5, no eternal warrior, command squads are only 5 models with no FNP and the Apothecary doesn't work in combat. Decent with company Vets, but they've got nothing on Sternguard.
Belial: Decent enough, cheap and makes Terminators scoring with an Apothecary to boot. Too bad SW get Termies as Troops supposedly, better Terminators at that.
Sammael: Best HQ in the book, truly unique and quite useful.
Ezekiel: Crap. No invulnerable beyond using up his only power that turn (and it only stops 1 wound), Mind Worm requires him to sit still and just doesn't work since anything worth killing has high Ld. His only use is a Ld10 hood with unlimited range, too bad we can get an allied Inquisitor Lord with that and more.
(Interrogator) Chaplain: Still WS5 and I5, so that's great. Beyond Sammael and Belial, the only good HQ.
Master: WS5, too pricey and too few options. Relic Blade and Storm Shield >> anything he's got.
Librarian: Crap.
Company Vets: Little bit of everything, not good at one of them.
DW: Scoring is nice, but Fearless, small squad size, and crappy versions of cyclones and storm shields hurt them severely.
RW: Fearless is TERRIBLE for them. Why the HELL can't they turbo-boost when scouting? Why the HELL doesn't the Speeder Deep Strike? Why the HELL do they cost so damn much? Scoring is nice, too bad marines get it too.
Everything else: More expensive than vanilla, no combat tactics, fewer options, and in some cases worse rules (Techmarines, Land Raiders, Drop Pods). It's like playing with a handicap.
It's a terrible book from a gameplay perspective and the only reason I've stuck with it is because of Deathwing, but if Wolves get that too I'm just done.
EmperorEternalXIX
09-08-2009, 11:22 AM
One boon often overlooked in the DA book is that they can take speeders in squadrons of 5. They can only have one weapon, but with hit allocation rules for squadrons this would be an extremely survivable unit...not to mention they come with free multimeltas or heavy bolters. It's 325 points, but after witnessing my own SM codex speeders last the whole game (and indeed, save me many games, by moving flat out to contest) I would definitely go for it.
The synergy between using bikes and using terminators is awesome in the dark angels book. I used to use Belial and 3 squads of terminators with a biker squad to bring them down early and in the enemy's face. They were hard enough to dislodge but they were always flanked by my three tactical squads and company veterans; won me many games.
I always had a slight shortage of anti-tank, but the idea of using 5 multi-melta toting speeders might have solved that problem, too bad I came up with it after I switched books.
The vets are often overlooked. The DA FAQ added a boatload of options to them. I believe they can now ALL be equipped with special weapons like power weapons or combi-weapons. They are also a lot cheaper than comparable vanguard squads, making them more viable.
DarkLink
09-08-2009, 12:25 PM
One guy in our gaming group plays Dark Angels, and won one of our tournaments with them. It was 1000pts (we like the smaller point games, we can get in 5-6 games in a day, and you have to be very careful about what you bring, as you can't splurge on anything), and Dark Angels have the advantage of being able to take 5man squads with a special. He had a few predators, three or four 5 man tacticals with specials in razorbacks, and Sammael. He was able to cram in so many light vehicles with autocannons and heavy bolters, as well as his small squads with meltas and flamers, that it was a better list than could be had in the SM dex.
Inquisitor Soren
09-08-2009, 01:15 PM
Ah, Chumbalaya what would we do without your pessimism? ^^
Honestly, its all in the way you play. In a densely packed city-scape board, my personal favorite, in a small points game I've enjoyed great success with these guys small squads with either melta or plasma, in this setting mech tends to suffers a bit more (tight streets, LOS blockers, etc.) and we tend to use a slightly smaller board so we dont just spend 2 turns just closing with one another (Though several times we have and it does make for an interesting gauntlet). Well maneuvered ICs can hide behind terrain and be used precisely when most needed, springing from cover on the enemies weak-points, three of four times I've watched Ezekiel catch the enemy from moving out of cover and charging into an enemy unit only for his own 'weaknesses' to not kill the enemy on my turn but end it at the end of my opponents before springing away from another unit back into cover causing just enough havoc and morale damage to my friends for me to exploit. ^^ (I refuse to speak of the fourth and most recent time...)
DA have some significant advantages in some ways but suffer hard from others its true, but its in no way an impossible list to play in fact I like the challenge. ^^
beeny13
09-16-2009, 11:01 AM
i really think that the dark angel codex has some positives, but it is in a similar boat to the blood angels, that almost every unit has been improved in the sm dex, so you have to spam the few units you have that are better.
in my opinion these are:
belial-cheap and good
chaplain-they get expensive, but they really are better than the sm ones. you can stick an interrogator with belial and his banner and apoth.
deathwing-fearless and first turn ds is worth 3 pts a model, too bad about the crap storm shields.
ravenwing-way too expensive, but it is nice having an attack bike and a three man bike squad with scout and teleport homers for the first turn deathwing ds.
scouts-shotgun scouts are constantly overlooked, but they really are pretty good, especially with the new outflank rules, they can threaten 12-18" of each edge.
don't forget about the cheap ven dread. if you run one with lascannon and missile launcher it is pretty good
now this is making me think that i need to try running a low point da list. it could be pretty nasty.
eagleboy7259
09-16-2009, 10:17 PM
I feel like if youre running either Belial or Sammeul in smaller games, mainly 1500pts and bellow, Dark Angels can actually work out to your benefit allowing you to come closer to the good(?) old days of the min-max. Almost all Space Marines build outs want you to take tactical squads for troops, and to be competitive in todays games in terms of scoring units you usually need atleast 3+. IMOP and to be clear this is just my opinion, if there is a low point to any space marine codex it is the tactical squad because they suffer from the "jack of all trades, masters of none symptom". The less tactical squads you take, the more you can focus on building out your army towards one direction, even if you are just striving for balance. So even if youre just taking Belial and using 1 Deathwing Terminator squad for troops or Sammy and 1 Biker Squad then youre already ahead. Of course Pure Deathwing, Pure Ravenwing, and the Death-Raven would probably be listed as the closest thing to tournament style competitive, but Dark Angels are far from being the crippled man being left behind.
Alvena
09-22-2009, 11:13 AM
One of my point of interest is Vet Squad, they dont have the fancy bolter ammo of the sternguard but like this i have no regret of using them with Combi weapons. they can also be equiped for CC with many possiblities using them for wound alloc (likes nobs)
EmperorEternalXIX
09-22-2009, 01:33 PM
Yes many people miss the FAQ entry that updates their options. Other than the bolter ammo, they are equivalent to sternguard, stat-wise, but are geared with CCW+BP for extra attacks on top of it.
Equipping some with power fists or other no-bonus-attack gear also makes it viable to stick a combi-weapon in there too. Though it's probably a better idea to kit them out widlly differently...three power weapons, a few shields, a couple of combi weapons. Make em play the allocation game and they'll all live infinitely longer.
I agree. I have seen a lot of DA players walk from their codex. It is crazy! You can do stuff nobody else can! You have your own flavor, special rules, and character nobody else has! Maybe I should do a game using my ultras, but DA codex...just to get the point across!
Aenir
09-22-2009, 09:18 PM
I agree. I have seen a lot of DA players walk from their codex. It is crazy! You can do stuff nobody else can! You have your own flavor, special rules, and character nobody else has! Maybe I should do a game using my ultras, but DA codex...just to get the point across!
I love my DA, it is kinda frustrating when POTMS lets smurfs fire @ BS4, but i can only fire BS2, or when i have TH/SS termies that cant do much :)
HOWEVER, i love the Termy Troops, Ive recently discovered the vet squads are really nasty, and to top it off, I think Azrael is the Best Non-Vanilla Chapter Master :D
EmperorEternalXIX
09-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Azrael is much better than equivalently costed characters in the SM dex. No contest.
Aenir
09-22-2009, 09:39 PM
Azrael is much better than equivalently costed characters in the SM dex. No contest.
i love using him, but he only rarely gets his points back
4 attacks on charge (5 in command sqd with chapter banner) at ST6 with a 2+ save and 4+ invuln that is granted to everyone in the unit
AND he has a mastercrafted combi plasma with BS5 :D
SeattleDV8
09-22-2009, 10:04 PM
DA librarians were crap in 4th ed . In 5th the DA libby has the same stats as a SM libby.
Hellfire is a bit random but it is on avg, ST 5 (but ranges from St 0 to St 10) and AP 1-6. I've destroyed more armor with them than you would believe.
The power can be game changing. I hit 6 termies with a ST 1 AP 2 teleplate...3 fell...lol
The West Coast Knight
09-22-2009, 10:21 PM
I knew I had good reasons for painting 11000 points of these mean green fighting machines.
I wish more would go through their codexes and find what is good and then just use it.
The crying about what other armies get and mine does not makes my eyes bleed.
Aenir
09-22-2009, 10:43 PM
it was funny, i once hit someone with st 7 ap 6 and did nothing, and like the previous poster (on page 2) i hit someone with low St ap 1 and messed them up :D
Mindworm was also a hit with me
got rid of the nightbringer in one single roll :D
Alvena
09-23-2009, 03:14 AM
I also had a question: Does anyone of you ever tried to ram with samael speeder ? is that effective, or just a waste of point ?
Aenir
09-23-2009, 09:58 AM
I also had a question: Does anyone of you ever tried to ram with samael speeder ? is that effective, or just a waste of point ?
I dont think you can, as only tanks can ram
Lerra
09-23-2009, 11:23 AM
I also had a question: Does anyone of you ever tried to ram with samael speeder ? is that effective, or just a waste of point ?
As a matter of fact, Sammael is the only way for my list to destroy a monolith at 1500 points. Str 10 suicidal speeder ramming the giant necron floating doom . . .
Although the Monolith, as a skimmer, can dodge.
If you ever end up with Sammael with no weapons, ramming is the best offensive option with him. I've seen it work well in extremely lucky situations, but most of the time you're just sending him to die. Still, desperate times call for desperate measures!
A friend once rammed Sammael into an Ork truck, exploding it and continuing on to the next ork truck, also exploding it, barely coming into contact with the Battle Wagon and turning it into a wreck.
That ork player doesn't line his tanks up nicely anymore for Sammael.
eagleboy7259
09-23-2009, 10:41 PM
Sounds like you guys are really digging on the DA Libby. I just dont understand a situation where I would take one though... If you are limited to two HQ choices, I figure most of us would run either Belial or Sammael for troop Terminators / Bikes, Attack Bikes, Land Speeder. Assuming you take a squad of Deathwing then you'd probably take the Chappy to boost their CC ability although Azereal does that too... I guess I always thought that you should take an HQ that helps either your structure or other units be awesome? Although DA & BA have the best Libbys arounds in the Terminator Libby, save the Space Wolves now but that doesnt really count cuz they arent true Libbys...
What do you guys run at HQ and why?
Aenir
09-23-2009, 11:12 PM
in 1500 or so i run Belial and Chaplain (Int.)
more i usually run Azrael, I add Sammael last, as i only have 3 bikes + attack bike, and he is on speeder. Id rather use my HQ to boost things.
Since i have more tac marines than termies, in BIG battles, I run Azrael/Ezekiel, thats a nasty combo that gets lost in the scrum
Alvena
09-24-2009, 08:47 AM
mhh i think you right Aenir, sammael don't seem to be able to ram (RAW point of view).
Damned this would have been so sexy ;-)
I also have one last question in Azrael command squad's to get the chapter banner: you have to pay the company banner upgrade cost + chapter banner upgrade cost (+10+15) ?
Thx all
Aenir
09-24-2009, 10:09 AM
yes you do, as the +10 is for the bearer himself, while the +15 is to make the banner he carries the chapter banner
Aenir
10-13-2009, 09:52 PM
Necro post:
I wanted to add, i Just bought the DA Veteran Squad Box, and its quite nice, Got some hard hitting monsters in there
Prodigalson
10-14-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm no up on the DA librarian personally. He has LD 9 and not a 10. He fails his psykic roles on a 10 and his hood doesn't work nearly as well. His power his seriously hit or miss as well.
I didn't think that much of azrael, but I'll give him a try when I get a chance.
EmperorEternalXIX
10-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Azrael is pretty awesome with a squad of those dirt cheap Company Veterans. Gear them up put them in a pod with him and go. The 4+ invul and Azrael's insane amount of I5 Str6 attacks makes him a ghastly combat character, not to mention the whole 4 Wounds thing.
Aenir
10-14-2009, 04:13 PM
and even though they each only have 1 wound, the Vets can all get different weapons, so you can kit them out differently, and not roll all together
crazyzombie
10-16-2009, 02:35 PM
I have a question about sammel. I know people generally perfer him in his land speeder but he really isn't that bad on his jetbike. He is the only speeder like modle that can wield a Plasma cannon,and having a BS of 5 helps as well. He may not have an armor of 14 but T5, 3+4++, enternal warror make him pretty resilent. In fact on averge you will need 54 bs 3 strengh 4 shot to bring him down or around 14 bs 3 stenght 7+ ap shots. And he can take an assult. Just want to know your thoughts.
Lerra
10-16-2009, 02:53 PM
The downside of Sammael in either form is that you're paying 205 points for either one plasma cannon and one TL storm bolter, or one TL assault cannon and one TL heavy bolter. It's not terrible, but he'll often have a tough time earning his points by himself. What makes Sammael is good is that he allows you to take bike squads as troops. The land speeder form tends to be killier than the jetbike form which is probably why it's more popular, but in some games the plasma cannon is better. Also, the land speeder will absorb a lot of high str/low AP shots, allowing your other armor to survive longer. If people want to shoot at Sammael instead of the vindicator or the land raider, that's great. It's hard to get into melta range with something that can turboboost, so my opponents often dedicate a lot of lascannon type shots at Sammael, and tbh that's exactly where I want those shots going.
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