2000 Black Templar List, Themed but Needs Optimization

[Paul]

Hello, everyone!

My theme has a few requirements:
Don't mess with the Techmarines
Don't Mess with the Land Raiders

Everything else is a Go-Go Optimization!

Other Note: This is a Death Star army which relies on Land Raider delivery and protection to stay alive. If that needs to change, address it - but realize it's the whole army concept.

TRANSPORTS:
Land Raider Crusader with Dozer Blade, Blessed Hull: 295
Land Raider with Extra Armor, Dozer Blade: 260
Rhino with Extra Armor: 55

UNITS:
IN LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
Master of Sanctity with Artificer Armor, MC Plasma Pistol, Bionics, Terminator Honors, 3x Cenobyte Servitors, Frag Grenades: 211

5-man Reclusiam Command Squad: SGT with Terminator Honors, Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Powerfist; Apothecary with Power Weapon, Terminator Honors; Standard Bearer; 2x Meltagun, Frag Grenades: 223

Techmarine 1 with Servo-Harness, Bionics, Thunderhammer, Stormshield; Terminator Honors: 170

Techmarine 2 with Servo-Harness, Bionics, Stormshield, Terminator Honors, Jump Pack, Frag Grenades: 161

Techmarine 3 with Servo-Harness, MC Plasma Pistol, Bionics, Iron Halo, Terminator Honors, Frag Grenades: 181

IN LAND RAIDER:
8x Initiates with Powerfist: 143

Emperor's Champion with Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds: 140

In Rhino:
8x Initiates with Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun: 154

ALSO CHECK MY MATH!

Thank you guys very much!
Paul

[Pikante]

I won't touch your math (Too lazy), but the chaplin is pretty redundant in this army. The champion already gives preferred enemy, and you might be better off with some terminators and a high marshal instead of a command squad with the chaplin. Just my advice however.

[Paul]

I thought like you did at first. But PW and IH for the Marshal is 40pts... the Chaplain gets it for free with his starting gear. Also I can't have two IHs.

[Pikante]

Ah but see you have the high marshal join a terminator squad using the crusader as a transport, and you put him in terminator armor. All in all I dislike command squads for the sole fact of their lack of invun save. If I may say so a high marhsal (Or two) in termy armor with lightning claws (Or stormshield power weapon/powerfirst/hammer/chainfist) is far better than a chaplin+a command squad, especially if you have the big boxes out on the table top. However it has been a long time since I have played my templars, so I do not know what works amazingly with them, so I am just speaking from general experience. Also i would suggest with the termy squads lightning claws+ furious charge, maybe a thunderhammer storm shield or two. This is of course should you so choose to use them.

[Paul]

Ah but see you have the high marshal join a terminator squad using the crusader as a transport, and you put him in terminator armor. All in all I dislike command squads for the sole fact of their lack of invun save. If I may say so a high marhsal (Or two) in termy armor with lightning claws (Or stormshield power weapon/powerfirst/hammer/chainfist) is far better than a chaplin+a command squad, especially if you have the big boxes out on the table top. However it has been a long time since I have played my templars, so I do not know what works amazingly with them, so I am just speaking from general experience. Also i would suggest with the termy squads lightning claws+ furious charge, maybe a thunderhammer storm shield or two. This is of course should you so choose to use them.

I will investigate this possibility... thanks man!

[Pikante]

No problem, I hope it shouldn't be too expensive, but you said you desire a death star list, so that is exactly what it should be able to give you. Keep in mind termy armor in black templars gives +1 attack!

[Paul]

Oh, slept on it and came up with a pair of issues if you could address them:

1) Loss of FNP- eh, no biggie; gain an invulnerable!

2) loss of Fearless: this is huge! Nonfearless 1200 pt deathstar = recipie for disaster! I could attach a reclusiarch...

Edit: I know they're fearless in Assault but being shot + PBS, or Markerlights, is terrible. Or any other LD effect that I'm missing.

[Splug]

I don't have my codex handy, but if you have a reclusium command squad with a standard bearer, you should be able to take a holy relic in there somewhere. I'd look into a way to fit that in if you can; +1 attack once per game is a big deal, and makes the death star that much more overwhelming.

[blackarmchair]

Oh, slept on it and came up with a pair of issues if you could address them:

1) Loss of FNP- eh, no biggie; gain an invulnerable!

2) loss of Fearless: this is huge! Nonfearless 1200 pt deathstar = recipie for disaster! I could attach a reclusiarch...

Edit: I know they're fearless in Assault but being shot + PBS, or Markerlights, is terrible. Or any other LD effect that I'm missing.

1) Agreed 100%

2) Loss of fearless can be a big deal. It depends on your local meta and what you're likely to face. Unless really heavy tank shocking, Psyker Battle Squads or anything that really makes you take a high volume of tests are common in your area I wouldn't sweat fearless TOO much. Especially since you will be in your Land Raider for most of the game and in combat for the other half (BT are Fearless in close-combat). So the only REAL LD you should ever take is if/when your Land Raider gets wrecked/exploded and you test pinning. And even that isn't a huge deal given that you're LD10 with Rites of Battle.

So unless it's common in your area to deal with death stars by forcing lots of LD tests I wouldn't take the loss of fearless too hard.

[Paul]

1) Agreed 100%

2) Loss of fearless can be a big deal. It depends on your local meta and what you're likely to face. Unless really heavy tank shocking, Psyker Battle Squads or anything that really makes you take a high volume of tests are common in your area I wouldn't sweat fearless TOO much. Especially since you will be in your Land Raider for most of the game and in combat for the other half (BT are Fearless in close-combat). So the only REAL LD you should ever take is if/when your Land Raider gets wrecked/exploded and you test pinning. And even that isn't a huge deal given that you're LD10 with Rites of Battle.

So unless it's common in your area to deal with death stars by forcing lots of LD tests I wouldn't take the loss of fearless too hard.

The main issue is I play Tau a lot. This deathstar can wreck tau, but the guy is an expert player and Tau are actually really good at killing a single deathstar-type unit... just load up on the Markerlights.

I find myself taking pinning from Tau sniper drones at like LD 3. :/

Additionally, the turns between combat can be brutal. This deathstar destroys any unit it's hit on the charge so far, but that leaves it open to shooting. Every now and again, not being fearless can be a *****.

The Chaplain's ability to direct the Righteous Zeal move actually helps run for cover away from an enemy countercharge, too.