More Like the Borus Heresy...

[Dark_Templar]

Anybody else want GW to start really moving the 40K universe forwards, as opposed to focussing heaps on the past? I mean, I love a well rounded, fully fleshed out story and universe, but I also want to see the world we game in move forward and have GW finally decide where they want to go with their story.

[gwensdad]

They could be making sure that "the past" makes sense before moving forward. Maybe a big idea they have for the future depends on the story of the past being fleshed out (i.e. Alpha Legion, origin of the Golden Throne, etc)

[Dark_Templar]

Could be, I really hope that is the case.

I was probably a bit harsh with the thread title, as I do enjoy the 40k fluff, I am just really looking forward to seeing new stories of the Imperium's losing battle against the Xenos. We are led to believe that Space Marines are absolute super soldiers, but we need to see more evidence of them fighting a losing battle.

[BDub]

I'd say they are moving it forwards.

The timeline in 5th ED has advanced into a new age. The Emperors throne is failing! We are on the verge of all hell breaking loose.

Lets just hope they do something with it.

[Dark_Templar]

I'd say they are moving it forwards.


Lets just hope they do something with it.

Exactly! Everything is on the cusp of falling apart and it would mean that GW would have a massive opportunity to almost reboot the 40k universe which, let's be honest, has become very convoluted, over populated with marines and could do with a bit of a tidy up.

[Abominable Plague Marine]

But Warhammer 41 thousand doesnt sound as good!

Chances are they will just flesh out the current verse, I think Seige of Vraks really points toward the direction GW will head, and considering the success of the SoV series, they would be crazy not to. They could release a whole new range of miniatures for EVERY campaign!

[Dark_Templar]

But Warhammer 41 thousand doesnt sound as good!

Chances are they will just flesh out the current verse, I think Seige of Vraks really points toward the direction GW will head, and considering the success of the SoV series, they would be crazy not to. They could release a whole new range of miniatures for EVERY campaign!

Yeah, all via Forgeworld who will charge us an arm and a leg. I know they do nice models, but come on.

[ssylyss]

Anybody else want GW to start really moving the 40K universe forwards, as opposed to focussing heaps on the past? I mean, I love a well rounded, fully fleshed out story and universe, but I also want to see the world we game in move forward and have GW finally decide where they want to go with their story.

I agree it is nice to read stories about where things are heading, but I have to ask "have you read any of the Horus Heresy novels"? I havn't read a single 40k novel that I didnt like, granted I have only read about20 different 40k novels, half of them in the horus heresy line. I'm losing sleep waiting for "prospero burns" and "a thousand sons".

[rsheridan5]

It seems to me that for every Horus Heresy novel that BL puts out, they release 2 or 3 books about the "current" future... I just got finished reading "Courage and Honor" which is a brand new and entertaining continuation of the Ultramarines story. There are also several omnibi sitting next to current titles (that I haven't got a chance to read yet) at my local Barnes & Noble.
Besides the Space Marines losing occasionally, what kind of fleshing out are you looking for?

[Inquisitor Soren]

I do agree we need to be moving forward, they need to finish the Heresy, in some cool omnibus with the battle for Terra preferably, and get on with the rest of the universe, I heard that GW once did an Eye of Terror Campaign, I managed to pick it up after it ended, and I feel that was a good step forward, but they need to keep walking, and not sideways either. 40k has a real rich 'history' and it deserves the attention it has been getting but all good things have to come to an end and so must the Heresy, and I really hope GW has a plan for what they intend to do next eventually we are going to roll into the year 41,000 we can't just sit at 40,999.999 forever. Heck we got new hive fleets, awakening necrons, advancing tau, the ever-present chaos, the dying eldar, the sadistic dark eldar, two of the three branches of inquisition including nun w/guns and bucket headed grey knights, five different marine codices (BT, SW, DA, BA, Generic), and we haven't gotten through that one freakin year .999, gaah! It feels like we're stuck on repeat for, what two or three editions? I don't know haven't been playin that long.

[Dark_Templar]

I will be honest and say that I have not read any of the Horus Heresy novels for the simple fact that I am waiting until the tale is finished and I can hammer through them all without a break (I know it makes me look like a massive hypocrite, but I only chose the title of this thread because I thought it was slightly amusing).

I love the history of the universe we play in, I just want to see it moving forward on a large scale.

[gwensdad]

I will be honest and say that I have not read any of the Horus Heresy novels for the simple fact that I am waiting until the tale is finished and I can hammer through them all without a break (I know it makes me look like a massive hypocrite, but I only chose the title of this thread because I thought it was slightly amusing).



I'll admit, I basically did the same thing with Harry Potter-started book 1 and finished book 6 a few days before book 7 came out.

Personally, each time I look at the title I think it says "Borat Heresy" and then you shouldn't ask where my brain goes.

[Dark_Templar]

Nice. Borat was very amusing, imo.

[ThePov]

Actually, I'm going to be the Devil's advocate here, and say I PREFER how GW is keeping the 40K storyline stagnant. Maybe it's just because I also play Battletech and it's spinoffs, but I definetly like the static universe of 40K, for a few reasons:


The size of the 40K in-game universe is so staggeringly huge, there is no need to move it forward. It is an established part of the fluff that the Imperium is so huge, and has so many myriad thousands, probably tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of planets, that there is really no need to move forward to find another conflict, which is the primary reason most other games DO move their stoyline forward (in Battletech, for instance, the world is small enough that one war affects everyone, and when it's over, everybody needs to move on to another reason to kill each other). This is not the case in 40K. If the current war is tapped out, all you have to do is look around to find another area of the Imperium under siege or in the midst of expansion.
The Current and Past Storylines are in no way fully fleshed out. The Horus Heresy is still very much in progress, after which there are still major events like the Age of Aposty (SP?), ready and waiting to recieve the same treatment. If you think about it, the 40,000 in Warhammer 40,000 is actually the ENDPOINT of the current storyline, the Horus Heresy is the beginning, and there's a lot in between that needs to be filled in. Yes, its a bass-akwards of telling a story, but it's worked so far, hasn't it?
Marketing and Branding Considerations. There was a lot of talk about a year ago about companies that were "too big to fail." For GW, the 40K storyline is "too big to fail." They are making too much money off of the proven formula of staying stuck at one point and telling the history of that too risk moving forward and screwing that up. Simple business sense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Kind of goes with number 3, but it's more personal. I REALLY don not want to see the 40K universe screwed up. Anyone who has played Battletech for the last 5-10 years can tell you what I mean. The company running Battletech was plodding along nicely with a set formula, then the new guys came in and decided to make a blod step forward, jumping the timeline ahead a full century. That bold new timeline eventually failed, and the compnay returned to it's old storyline, except now they've got this huge thing looming over there heads where part of future history is already told and everything has to logically lead up to that. It's not easy, and I REALLY don't want to see that happen to my Favorite Genocidal, genetically enhanced super-warriors.



Essentially, I don't want 40K to move forward, because the stoy isn't set up to move forward, and was never intended to move forward. If you want a game that moves along in a new and ever-expanding storyline, go play Classic Battletech (no, seriously, go play CBT. It's a kick-arse game, on par with 40K for me.).

[Dark_Templar]

Really good points. I would hate to see the whole concept ruined as well. You have given me a different point of view which is reallyl valid and I suppose really, we should be happy with everything we are getting at the moment anyways.

[Inquisitor Soren]

Alright I gotta give it to ThePov, those are some great points, particularly the Second one, I'd love to see the Age of Apostasy fleshed out, but eventually we will have to move forward, there is a huge amount GW can and will fill out, but in the end we cant have new tech, hive fleets, and units just spring out of thin air can we? (I'm sure it will happen but it feels wrong to me.)

[RocketRollRebel]

I agree with The Pov. The 40k time line has no real reason in my opinion to move forward. There is a vast wealth of stuff that can still be covered and it doesn't run the the risk of seriously 'effing up the game. You can still do this while adding things like new campaigns or fluff or races simply because the 40k universe is as mentioned before, so incredibly vast.

I know we have the "time of ending" now but its not that dramatic if you ask me. That could go on for ever and its not really that new or groundbreaking compared to older fluff. The 40k universe hasn't ever exactly been all about a hopeful future for humanity anyway so I don't think anything will ever truly end or be absolute nor should it.

[Ulf]

I think it's pretty clever of GW to pause the timeline just at its climax.

Sure, I'd like to hear the end of the story, but once everyone knows who wins, things become boring. The way it is, you can go on playing forever. New ideas have lots of room in the past, for example the aforementioned Age of Apostasy - no real stories/books/stuff have been built around it yet. Other ideas can be retconned (-> retroactive continuity), like they did with parts of the necron background back when Codex: Necrons was published. I can't even see a problem with introducing new races - the background says there are millions of races, and as with everything 40k, they spend most of their free time waging war against stuff. So if they're going to publish Codex: Inanimate Wooden Sticks, it's no big deal retconning the Inanimate Wooden Sticks into existence, being the long time nemesis of the Imperium of Mankind they are. All they need to do is naming some empty space on the intergalactic map.

[Gotthammer]

... they're going to publish Codex: Inanimate Wooden Sticks..

Sure, trust GW to bring out another Inanimate Wooden Sticks codex - whatever sells the most Wooden Sticks I guess. Meanwhile Inanimate Carbon Rods will wait another ten years to get out of 3rd ed.

;)


On topic I think keeping the future undefined is a good thing. Most times when you have a 'living' world of grand scope it ends up going stupid at some point. See: Star Wars EU when the extra-galactic invasion happened, Cyberpunk2020 when Morgan Blackhand fought Adam Smasher atop the exploding Militech building, Battletech when the Clans were defeated etc.

I dislike how eveything is now the C'Tan's fault, from Eldar and Orks, to the AdMech and even the fear of death. I liked it when every race was completely independant of each other (save links to the warp/chaos), but the GRIMDARK made everyone equally unpleasant.
I fear any attempt to advance the plot would result in more 'revelations' so everythign can be easily condensed into one single sourcebook.

That said a line of 'what if' type books detailing the various different futures would be quite interesting. You could have a book where the Emperor dies, a book where he wakes up, a book where the Tau have a civil war vs the Etherals etc etc.

[LordVermagum]

I say, kill the empty husk of an Emperor, resurrect the Star Child, Destroy over half of mankind, and get on with it.

[Dark_Templar]

I say, kill the empty husk of an Emperor, resurrect the Star Child, Destroy over half of mankind, and get on with it.

I would be happy if the only move forward in the next 15 years was the death of the Emperor and the repercussions of that.