Non loyalist space marines

[zutoniac]

kind of want to start a spacey army but not big on the whole 'for the emperor'. Is there any chapter that is a bit more renegade, but not chaos?

Sort of just doing it cause they have to, dont really care much for the emperor

Cheers x

[Grailkeeper]

There are several, but you can always create your own- thats what attracts me to space marines the posssibilities are endless

Couple of off hand examples- Soul Drinkers. They are not Chaos but they have many mutants so you may not like them. Their novels aren't the best

Relictors- They use chaos weapons and are viewed with great suspicion

Here is list of Renegade Chapters http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Renegade_Space_Marine_Chapters_%28List%29

But my advise is to create your own chapter- thats the most fun. They'll need a colour scheme(and iconography), background as to why they don't like the imperium nd any other details like character names you want to add. That is the favourite part of the hobby and is what I did for my chapter (the grailkeepers)

[zutoniac]

cheers man, i quite like soul drinkers but not a fan of the colours. Might make a chapter very similar to it, or maybe in the fluff directly influenced by it. They feel the shadowy imperium has become corrupt, and unjust, and leave. So They'd be small in numbers (likely the size of my army) and not be chaos because they still strive to fight that as a greater evil.

I'll work on it.. ;)

[zutoniac]

that way i can use http://www.miniwargaming.co.uk/images/P/mow_demolition_crew_full.jpg as make shift termys, and explain the lack of decor ;)

[Denzark]

The Badab War saw several chapters aligned with the Astral Claws as renegades - including the Lamenters who are a Blood Angel successor so you could use that codex with a legitimately fluffy reason.

Try the lexicanum to find out more...

[Grailkeeper]

There's the celestial lions who have come into conflict with the Inquisition http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Celestial_Lions. Things don't go so well for them

Denzark was very right to point out badab war- its probably more what you're looking for, and if you dont find anything there it'll give you backround as to how a chapter would turn against the imperium but not all the way to chaos.

It might help if you decide which loyalist chapter they are descended from, this might influence how they look and act and which codex you use. Traditionally the chapter which would care most for doing the right thing and helping civilians etc are the Salamanders, with the Space Wolves probably in second place.

[zutoniac]

ive just been reading about it and its prety perfect. I'm feeling that the chapter i am to create rejected the imperium due to interference with the right of the space marines. That they fight for the emperor on his blessing and shouldn't have to answer to them as well.

I'm thinking they were originally part of the fire hawks, the chapter master being one of those on board when they met with the mantis warriors and they refused to back down. He felt that instead they should have respected the authority of the mantis, as it was their area. Tension grew when Lazaerek pressed to try and get the chapter back in the baddab wars, leading to a small split - with those who felt the imperium was abusing its power leaving to form whatever i choose to call them. They thought causing the war over a tithe and in turn risking the protection from the threat of the maelstrom was an unreasonable gamble.

They didn't have enough men to start a whole chapter though, so after the war those from the Astral Claw who were horrified huron wouldn't accept death for the emperor and instead turned to chaos also joined. They're regarded as a traitor chapter, due to harbouring Astral Claws. But they still fight in the name of the emperor, but not for the imperium.

Does this fluff sound reasonably fluffy or are their huge holes in it? Its just a skeleton so far :)

The models will likely have all the logos sanded off their weapons etc to represent this. But the scrolls and stuff is still okay right. What is the demarkation of the imperium on a spacey?

[Grailkeeper]

I don't know that much about the Firehawks but you can do what you want. The fire hawks all disappeared more recently and are now the legion of the damned.

The main Imperial mark on Marines would be the Aquila (the double headed eagle). You could get around the purity seals etc by saying they repesent oaths of loyalty to each other or to over throw the corruption that has wracked the Imperium. I don't know how good your modelling skills are, but theres hundreds of those seals in most marine armies

[zutoniac]

yeah, so i can sand the aquila off easy enough. Thats a good idea about the pledge stuff! Easy way around it.

and the fire hawks disappeared a while after the baddab wars, so they would have been out of the chapter by then. Sorted! Cheers for the help! Now to decide on colours. Thats going to even harder

[Grailkeeper]

Darker colours will hide mistakes, light colours will reveal them as a general rule of thumb. The simpler your colour scheme the quicker it'll be to paint- my colour scheme is pretty complex and it gets pretty tiring painting it I can tell you. There are a couple of websites out there that let you preview your colour scheme like http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smpbeta.php

You could work the legion of the damned in- maybe as their arch enemies? or something reflected in the paint scheme.

[zutoniac]

ah i did consider it but im going to tweak the fluff slightly, and say this:

The reason they left firehawks is as stated, as well as the fact they were forcing marine on marine combat - something my men are going to be against. The same with the astral claws deserters. As soon as the war pushed too far (the astral claws raid on salamander ships just for gene-whatsits) they left in disgust at what had first been about politics had deterioration into the greed that the imperium shared that caused the war in the first place.

However, i realise that means my army will fall apart if ever i have to fight another spacey army so have come up with:

Over time, they became outraged they were branded deserters, claiming they never deserted the emperor they swore loyalty too and still fight in the name of. This bitterness has risen in recent years, causing them to be willing to break their oath of no marine on marine combat should a chapter try to stop them. I'm feeling it. It is fun to create a chapter! I'm thinking dark too. My dark eldar army (that needs finishing and i think might have been a phase..) i think looks okay so far! http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=16905

[Grailkeeper]

Sorry :( you obviously know how to paint very well

I might put it that they refused to fight other marines originally, but obviously no one wants to die, they will fight to protect themselves if the Imperium sends marines out to get them- "it was in self defence".


edit- in cases where you are clearly the attacker it can be a pre emptive strike, or a raid for supplies both motivated by despiration, or these are loyalists standing in the way of your new order

[zutoniac]

aha, no im not very good at painting lots of detail, or skin! I just got lucky with them dark eldar. I might try a similar scheme on the spaceys. Dark reds and silver. Probably should be red - if (technically) their founding chapter is the fire hawks.

I was also trying to think of a name. Im thinking flightless something, because the aquila wings are gone:

flightless hand
flightless blades


I dont know. Something like that

But thank you! I'm a computer games designer, so hopefully i do have a slight eye for the art side ;) aha

[Grailkeeper]

What about Grounded? As in cannot fly, but also at the same time meaning sensible.

[zutoniac]

yeah thats nice! Thank you (just saw the edit)

i like the idea of over time being slightly more hostile after years of rejection. Raiding for supplies etc. Like i said before i want to use warmachine man-o-war models as terminators, to show that we dont have access to the armoury, and have to make our own

e.g this would be a thunder hammer (obviously needs converting in places to be more 40k)

http://www.miniwargaming.co.uk/images/P/mow_demolition_crew_full.jpg

you reckon that could work?

and grounded, thats clever! The name will be the toughest bit i reckon.

[Grailkeeper]

It depends where you play and who against, you won't be able to use it in a GW shop. I doubt most people will care. For Gaming purposes it should be on a terminator sized base.

As for the name its best to pick something that sounds good rather than something that reflects your background exactly. Grounded might be hard to turn into something particularly war like. Just go for something that sounds good.

[zutoniac]

seriously, you cant use it in a gw related game just because its not the correct model? Thats insane aha. Maybe just one then, to use as my chapter leader, would that be allowed or would i just have to have a standard captain marine model and pretend?

And youre very right there

Do you know if the winged skull on the space marines bolter is an imperium symbol?

[Grailkeeper]

I suppose you could justify its retention on the basis that its a reminder of their past as hawks.

[Deadlift]

Once a successor chapter to the Blood Angels, The Knights of Blood are a renegade Space Marine Chapter.High Lords of Terra in M41 declared them Renegade . Although their frenzied warriors are dangerous to both friend and foe alike, they still (supposedly) purge the galaxy of the Imperium's enemies1.
In 999.M41, the Knights of Blood assisted their founding Chapter in their defence of Baal against both the daemonic hordes of Ka'Bandha and the Tyranids of Hive Fleet Leviathan. Being branded as renegades, they kept their distance from the other Chapters during the battles.1b
Sources

This is the info I found about the Renegade chapter I play. I really liked the Blood Angels codex but am not a big fan of painting red or of their fluff. Looking though their codex these guys intrigued me. I use all the BA kits etc but paint them in the metallic and red of this chapter. I like the creative freedom in painting a little known chapter allows and also on the table it's entirely plausible for my army to fight anyone, imperium, renegade or xenos are all fair game to my boys :)

[Grailkeeper]

Found this its from the latest forgeworld book which includes teh Fire Hawks http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/66-67st.jpg

It has paint schemes and fluff. Its kinda hard to read but the bottom of the first column and top of the second says "the firehawks have long been notably strict adherants of the Cult Imperialis believing the Emperors divinty and the divine right of humanity to dominate the stars"

[Drunkencorgimaster]

This is a fun thread. I like where you and the grailkeeper are going with this. I think WAY more people should take much advantage of making up their own armies with their own story-lines. My chapter (the Galactic Watch) is vaguely based on Cromwell's New Model Army, for instance.

Frankly, I would not even worry about the Aquilas, Aquilia, Aquilettes... (what's the plural on that word?). Think how many nations in Europe alone used it? Byzantine Rome, the Seljuk Turks, the Holy Roman Empire, Austria, Spain, Albania, Tsarist Russia, Modern Russia, etc. These states were often at each other's throats under banners flying essentially the same symbol. The Galaxy is a lot bigger than Europe after all. There is plenty of room in the year 40,000 for multiple parties using the same symbol in my book. After all, who is to say that your chapter can't decide they are the "true" representatives of the spirit of the Aquila?

[Wildeybeast]

I once did a trial run of models for a GW design your own chapte competition. Based on an Egyptian style army, worshipping ancient gods but with their chief sun god as the emperor. Wrote a whole 2 pages of Index Astartes style background loosely based on the Pharaoh Akenaten beign their Primarch, exiled for refusing to give up their worship of heathen gods. Then I lost it all when my computer crashed. :( I converted them with some old Bretonnian knight heads as some of those had some great Egyptian style iconography (there was one with a Bulls' Head with a sun between the horns that looked awesome).

Also, the cumps in the store disqualified my entry because I wrote more than specified 1 paragraph of background. They could have told me that 'make your own chapter' in fact meant 'paint your marine in pretty colours'. :mad:

[Pendragon38]

This is great I've been thinking that there was a few who did the whole Merc-Marines style! My marine army is based around six companys one from each chapter of the first founding and AM with the squat guilds that was lost before the HH. Now my army is about 30,000pts strong

[zutoniac]

cheers guys, glad youre enjoying the discussion! I think it does make for interesting thought, and encourages more of a read up into chapter history. I knew nothing of the emperor or founding history before all this an now feel well versed in both HH and the baddab!

An Egyptian style would be cool, most definitely, do you have pictures?
So many chapters just have missing history to take advantage of you can easily fit into.

And an elite chapter, made of the 6 founders? That sounds pretty bad ***! You got space wolves in there too im assuming? Funnily enough, they come pretty close to rejecting the imperium aha.

As for the aquila - youre very right. You can alway just justify it by saying they gave it a new meaning. As it was originally meant to show that the emperor looks to the future not the past, then the imperium took it and gave it the meaning that each head is for the two sectors comprising the imperium. So a new chapter could give it its own meaning, or just stick to the emperors original version.

Good ideas flying all over this thread!

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Also, the cumps in the store disqualified my entry because I wrote more than specified 1 paragraph of background. They could have told me that 'make your own chapter' in fact meant 'paint your marine in pretty colours'. :mad:

Are your kidding??? What a bit of twits. There should have been no page limit on the fluff. You would have won in my book. I like that whole Ahkenaten-Emperor idea.

Maybe somebody should start a post-your fluff thread... or has that been done?