New Star Trek Series (possibly).

[eldargal]

Not sure what to think about this (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112576-New-Star-Trek-Series-Pitch-Approaches-Warp-Speed).

I'd love a new Star Trek series in the vein of TNG, DS9 or Voyager, but what the person is saying makes little sense. Post-Voyager (2378+)return and talking about the aftermath of Praxis 'sploding in 2293? What?:confused:

Obviously it may not even happen yet so not exactly worried.

[DrLove42]

I was always suprised that with the success of the Abrams film re-boot the seires didn't get a re-do. They repeat DS9, Enterprise and Voyager enough on TV, i'm suprised the idea hasn't surfaced sooner

Abrams 2nd (of 3) Trek films is supposed to be out mid to late next year...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

not sure what to think...when dr who came back it felt like an ADD show tailored to mainstream sensibilities that ignored everything that made the old version and the books so awesome, and Star trek 09 followed the same. Suffice to say, I hated both - as I felt they lacked the substance, creativity, slow-pace and experimentation of their previous incarnations.

Call me a 90's fanboy, but I think sci-fi shows have sucked since around 2000+ - they've either gone the ADD-action route ignoring all the science and just focussing on cheap gimmicks and commercialism or turning into soap-dramas. If a new ST series followed current trends, I'd likely hate it too.

The sad thing is, I really want to like these franchises again and be impressed by them but sadly I think they would be both better off dead and buried rather than continue to be the souless mindless dreck that gets made at current.

I think the best option is for writers to try and fund and produce their own original web-series free of the corporations and networks, that way the ideas come from the writers instead of the producers,which is the problem IMO and they'd be more cutting-edge, soulful and original stuff that's not affraid to be risky and weird.

[gwensdad]

As interesting as it sounds, with the movie franchise going in a new direction someone in Hollywood will think "people can't keep 2 different realities both named 'Star Trek' straight!" and kill the TV series idea. Especially since TV is more expensive and crappy "reality" shows are what's making networks money right now.

[Morgan Darkstar]

powerful ferengi? that could quite possibly be the most annoying thing in the world :rolleyes:

[eldargal]

I didn't mind the new Star Trek film as it was quite open about starting a new alternate canon rather than changing the existing one. I think keeping that alternate canon in the cinema and having the old canon back on television would be feasible too.

I liked the new Doctor Who at first, starting to annoy me now though. I really wish the rumours of Stephen Fry as the Eleventh Doctor were true and they returned it to a slower paced, more cerebral show. It is getting stupidly chaotic. I haven't even bother watching the last series. Also, resting Daleks? WTF, resting the best part of the show, I always looked forward to dalek appearances. :mad:

Anyway, if this is a return to proper Star Trek I will be pleased, if it is more Enterprise action-Sci-Fi then it will just die another slow death which sadly would probably be the final death for Star Trek. Chances are the pitch will fail and it won't happen at all though. I'm going to go get into my Seven of Nine costume* and cry myself to sleep when that happens.

*The respectable blue one, not that awful silver one.

[Necron2.0]

Foster's plan is to set the new series in a post-Voyager era but return it to its "original series roots in big and mighty ways."
...
...
...
Is the world ready for a new Star Trek series? Following the collapse of Enterprise and the box office failure of Star Trek: Nemesis, the feeling seemed to be that the viewing public had had its fill of boldly going where no-one had gone before. But then J.J. Abrams blew the lid off things with his 2009 Star Trek reboot, which proved that the franchise could attract a mainstream audience.

I'm cautiously optimistic, because it seems Foster gets it. TNG, DS9, Voyager and the like were plagued by writers who were largely emo wankers that tried turning Roddenberry's vision into an orgy of self-loathing. On top of that, most of them were unimaginative script monkeys churning out trite chum to the point I was really surprised people didn't wise up sooner. Topping it off, Berman and Braga had absolutely no clue what they were doing, as was evident with Enterprise.

When someone comes along and writes a story that respects the original source material, and isn't some dark-and-gritty(TM) pile of emo drivel, people will watch it, and they will enjoy it, because that is what entertainment is all about. If someone refuses to respect the source and chooses to "re-imagineer" it ... well, you get Nemesis.

[eldargal]

TNG, DS9 and most of Voyager were fine, though things did start getting weird towards the end of Voyager and came to a head with Enterprise. Rodenberry himself was responsible for the first season of TNG and kept a close eye on it until he died, and approved of it. I'm not sure where you are getting self-loathing emo wankers from, you sound a bit mad but whatever.:p

[Lord Azaghul]

I didn't mind the new Star Trek film as it was quite open about starting a new alternate canon rather than changing the existing one. I think keeping that alternate canon in the cinema and having the old canon back on television would be feasible too.

I liked the new Doctor Who at first, starting to annoy me now though. I really wish the rumours of Stephen Fry as the Eleventh Doctor were true and they returned it to a slower paced, more cerebral show. It is getting stupidly chaotic. I haven't even bother watching the last series. Also, resting Daleks? WTF, resting the best part of the show, I always looked forward to dalek appearances. :mad:

Anyway, if this is a return to proper Star Trek I will be pleased, if it is more Enterprise action-Sci-Fi then it will just die another slow death which sadly would probably be the final death for Star Trek. Chances are the pitch will fail and it won't happen at all though. I'm going to go get into my Seven of Nine costume* and cry myself to sleep when that happens.

*The respectable blue one, not that awful silver one.

JJ Abrams: I'm still not sure what i think of the movie. Yes it was a very good movie, was I don't think he should have been allowed to reboot things...

JJ Abrams lost alot of his good graces with me during the last season of 'Lost'.

It would have to be a very good Star Trek show for me to enjoy it - I have high TV/Movie standards/expectations - given the crap that's been on tv in last few years - with few execption - I'm not optimistic. Has anyone else noticed that the writing has been WAY dumbed-down in popular tv in the last 10-15 years?

DR Who. I enjoyed the revival until the current Dr...the Dr himself is just fine - its the writing - and Amy...and Rory...and Amy must save Rory must save Amy must save Rory...over and over and over.

[eldargal]

I hated Lost from the beginning, but the good thing about the Abrams Star Trek is that it is an alternate timeline which doesn't affect the established canon at all. So best of both worlds, not really a reboot.:)

I like the Eleventh Doctor too, it is just the writing (and Rory) that annoys me as well. Amy is nice.

[Lord Azaghul]

... the good thing about the Abrams Star Trek is that it is an alternate timeline which doesn't affect the established canon at all. So best of both worlds, not really a reboot.:)


But he blew up VULCAN! You can't just blow up Vulcan...can you? Was it vengeance for the 'Enterprise' series?

I'm still struggling with that one!

The whole movie I'm thinking 'I wonder how they are going to reset/fix this' you know in the typical star trek fashion...
But it never happened

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I hated dr who's comeback from the beginning, it got rid of everything that was cool (Gallifrey, The Great Old Ones, The Doctor being a reincarnation of The Other, Time-Lords, Faction Paradox and "The Enemy" and the "good" time war stuff, good stories, slow moving plots that took their time) and just did something that feels more like it's geared towards the ADD Twilight/Harry Potter/Star Wars fans :/ Even when they did do something good they ruined it or got rid of it fast - Like the Master, they brought him back with the amazing Derek Jacobi!!! who was actually pretty chilling and scary, then ruined it 5 mins later by turning him into f**king john Simm who just felt like an EvilEccleston. Then theres the over-reliance on old monsters or just making them plain rubbish like the EmoDalek from series1 or the C3PO cybus-men with their nasally voices.

ST 09 was the same, they should of just focussed it on Christopher Pike - the actor who played him was brilliant too, but instead just did the horrid "younger crew" thing which all felt like complete parodies to me. Not to mention the alternate-time line thing which made me feel completely disconnected from it and "star wars" esque fight-scenes. Guess it should of been expected when it came from JJ "mainstream" Abrams.

More I think about it, the more I feel these franchises should be dead and buried or just continue in book/audio form. TV's just too mainstream these days for intelligent sci-fi shows to exist and keep artistic integrity IMO. ST on TV/film should of ended after Voyager and Dr who should of been content to stick with the much superior book and audio series.

[Lord Azaghul]

More I think about it, the more I feel these franchises should be dead and buried or just continue in book/audio form. TV's just too mainstream these days for intelligent sci-fi shows to exist and keep artistic integrity IMO. ST on TV/film should of ended after Voyager and Dr who should of been content to stick with the much superior book and audio series.

Gotta disagree with you a bit here.

I didn't get INTO Dr Who until the revival back in 2005 (or whenever).
I've tried to go back and watch those old ones, I gave up after about 12 episodes - so corny,( it was one of the series' with the Dr who had the long scarf) so saturday afternoon-special...so under funded! But that was also a different era. TV/cinema works completely different these days (some good/some bad). And I'm sure there is some good stuff in there somewhere, but the whole time-crystal-thingy I was watching was close to torture :P

Star Trek - yes that should have ended there...but its also good to keep a series alive and get people to explore the older roots. I think the movie did that.

Enterprises problem was (aside from the song) the writing. The show was just soo campy, and anti-vulcan (one of the series long hero races) And at its roots cynical! Star Trek has always been optimistic, Enterprise failed that tenant remarkably.

[eldargal]

Oh I don't know, the fight scenes in Star Trek 09 didn't seem out of place, Shatner-Kirk has plenty of fist fights as well. I liked the younger crew mostly, there was one moment when Spock lifts his eyebrow and says 'fascinating' when he gets in the old-Spocks ship thing that sent a chill down my spine, it was like he was chanelling a young Leonard Nimoy.

Old Doctor Who can be brilliant, particularly the Dalek Episodes (because Daleks are the greatest scifi villains of all time), but some are pretty poor. But I do think many of teh Doctors had more character than Eccleston/Smith though I will say Tennant was pretty damned superb in my opinion.:)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Gotta disagree with you a bit here.

I didn't get INTO Dr Who until the revival back in 2005 (or whenever).
I've tried to go back and watch those old ones, I gave up after about 12 episodes - so corny,( it was one of the series' with the Dr who had the long scarf) so saturday afternoon-special...so under funded! But that was also a different era. TV/cinema works completely different these days (some good/some bad). And I'm sure there is some good stuff in there somewhere, but the whole time-crystal-thingy I was watching was close to torture :P

I think your refering to the Key to Time season, which I thought was rubbish myself. Tom Baker was awful and way overated. Actually those years remind me of the same things I dislike about the new series, the only difference being modern FX.

The best dr who eras were the 1960's, some of the 80's stories (could be hit and miss to be fair) and 90's Virgin New Adventures, as well as some of the 8th doctor BBC books which had a far cooler "Time War" which involved a sentient process of alternate history called The Enemy.




Star Trek - yes that should have ended there...but its also good to keep a series alive and get people to explore the older roots. I think the movie did that.

Enterprises problem was (aside from the song) the writing. The show was just soo campy, and anti-vulcan (one of the series long hero races) And at its roots cynical! Star Trek has always been optimistic, Enterprise failed that tenant remarkably.

I don't see why a series needs to be kept alive and have new fans for any reason other than someone wants to exercise their greed in money. Besides, to be fair there are a couple of "fan-made" ST shows that look like they -could- be good or okay, such as Star Trek Phoenix : http://www.stphoenix.com/
allthough itll have to be seen wheather itll be up to par or not - often times, fan shows suffer from "fanwank" syndrome and cringeworthy acting, but this one looks like the acting and FX are at least up to par from the vignette.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Old Doctor Who can be brilliant, particularly the Dalek Episodes (because Daleks are the greatest scifi villains of all time), but some are pretty poor.

The best Dalek stories were the Troughton ones which sadly don't exist anymore, they definitly had the best stories and made them utterly manipulative and intelligent *******s.

The 1980's ones were equally awesome but in a different context because they went in a more action sci-fi horror style with them like in Resurrection of the Daleks - which s**ts on any of the NS dalek episodes. Hell, nobody bar the companions/doctor even survived that story and even then Tegan leaves at the end. The story even starts off with a genocide, with people being mercilessly gunned down in a street, has a dalek mutant murder people ala Aliens (it didnt get Emo and want to touch the sunlight thanks to Roses DNA!), people got gassed and had the faces burnt/melted off, and it introduces the awesome villain Lytton. It's sequel Revelation had that classic "Glass dalek" with the human-hybrid in it with all vital organs on display through the glass. Stuff like that is what they should be doing nowadays but on a decent budget - would be amazing then..but alas

[eldargal]

I like Tom Baker, but I agree he is overrated. I prefer Hartnell and Pertween (1st and 3rd Doctor respectively, for those who don't know). Genesis of the Daleks with Baker is one of my favourite episodes.

Edit: Agree re: the 80s Dalek episodes. Incidentally I know an Australian who claims his grandfather had a copy of the Daleks Master Plan from when copies were sent to Australia, as he worked at one of their television networks. Not the sort ot chap to make things up either. Sadly he can't find it.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I like Tom Baker, but I agree he is overrated. I prefer Hartnell and Pertween (1st and 3rd Doctor respectively, for those who don't know). Genesis of the Daleks with Baker is one of my favourite episodes.

Edit: Agree re: the 80s Dalek episodes. Incidentally I know an Australian who claims his grandfather had a copy of the Daleks Master Plan from when copies were sent to Australia, as he worked at one of their television networks. Not the sort ot chap to make things up either. Sadly he can't find it.

Hartnell was awesome, I loved how he nearly murdered that caveman in cold blood, and was much more alien and colder. Fantastic actor, and like the 7th he often used his companions as chess-pieces which I loved. So I guess the 7th and 1st are my favourites. Petwee was awesome because he was a hypocrite - raging at the brig/UNIT for using violence on one hand yet physically beating the hell out of people on the other. I liked the 7th best because he didnt step into things but instead just manipulated everything around him to take revenge on his enemies, by far the most "powerful" incarnation, probably because he had finally remembered his past-life of being The Other.

Did you know what episode(s) of Master Plan he may of had? three of them that have been recovered (2, 5 and 10) out of the 12 that were made. Couldnt really care less about the interim "Christmas episode", but it would be awesome if the rest were rediscovered - it was the best 1st doctor Dalek story IMO. Katerinas death at the end was nearly as awesome as Adric's in Earthshock.

[Necron2.0]

you sound a bit mad but whatever.:p

Ah, sorry. I'm having to deal with a lot of clueless morons in my personal life lately (work related), and my natural speech/writing patterns are tending toward the hostile. I will try to tone it down.


I'm not sure where you are getting self-loathing emo wankers from ....


I saw a documentary awhile back that talked about it. In seasons 3 of TNG, Ira Steven Behr joined the crew. In an interview with him he basically indicated he really hated the positive aspects of Star Trek, and wanted to go more dark-and-gritty(TM), with angsty characters who were flawed and imperfect. He supported other writers who shared his vision, which conflicted with Roddenberry's.

Behr's "vision" was a style of theater pioneered by Berthold Brecht in the 1920's. In the Brechtian style, heroes are portrayed as unlikeable in several ways, while the villains are shown with many admirable qualities. Brecht had a very specific intent when he did this. He wanted to dissuade his audience from forming any emotional attachments to the characters. He wanted the audience to look upon his works as a largely dispassionate third party. That's great for a purely intellectual intercourse on topics and ideas (Brecht's goal). It sucks royal, however, if you just want to be entertained. For myself, while I can appreciated the aesthetic of them, I find most of Brecht's works to be thoroughly unwatchable. In fact, about the only film in the Brechtian style that I like is Blade Runner.

I have to laugh when I hear the reason why some of the new writers create all these flawed emo characters. They say they're doing it to portray "real people" in real life. Brecht did it, however, because he specifically did NOT want real people to identify with his characters.

[Lord Azaghul]

I think your refering to the Key to Time season, which I thought was rubbish myself. Tom Baker was awful and way overated. Actually those years remind me of the same things I dislike about the new series, the only difference being modern FX.

The best dr who eras were the 1960's, some of the 80's stories (could be hit and miss to be fair) and 90's Virgin New Adventures, as well as some of the 8th doctor BBC books which had a far cooler "Time War" which involved a sentient process of alternate history called The Enemy.


Key to Time! Yup - that was the one. Yeah it was bad enough for me to try and push as much as possible about it out of memory!

Good to know, I'll have to revisit our public library and see what other Dr Who I can track down. They are kind of all over the place with BBC type stuff. In fact I was surprised that they even had stuff from the 70's on dvd period - granted that dvd was prolly 15 years old.

What series specifically do you recommend I search for, it was the original dalek stuff's that I was hoping to see, and any of the other d-who myths that survived into the 'modern' era?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Key to Time! Yup - that was the one. Yeah it was bad enough for me to try and push as much as possible about it out of memory!

Good to know, I'll have to revisit our public library and see what other Dr Who I can track down. They are kind of all over the place with BBC type stuff. In fact I was surprised that they even had stuff from the 70's on dvd period - granted that dvd was prolly 15 years old.

What series specifically do you recommend I search for, it was the original dalek stuff's that I was hoping to see, and any of the other d-who myths that survived into the 'modern' era?

Seasons is kinda hard to recomend, but the best individual stories from each incarnation IMO are ;

1st doctor :
The Space Museum
The Time Meddler
The Aztecs
The War Machines (and not the privateer press kind)

2nd Doctor :
The Mind Robber
Tomb Of The Cybermen
The War Games
and if you don't mind incomplete stories that only have 1 or 2 episodes out of 4/6 the Lost in Time collection is brilliant.

3rd Doctor :
Spearhead from Space
Inferno
The Sea Devils
The Three Doctors

4th Doctor (man this was difficult..) :
Genesis of the Daleks
The Masque Of Mandragora*
Image Of The Fendahl*
State of Decay
The Deadly Assassin
Logopolis

* These two are EXTREMELY lovecraftian, but Tom's bohemian behaviour does ruin the atmospheres at time.

5th Doctor :
Castrovalva
Earthshock
Mawdryn Undead
The Awakening
Frontios
Resurrection Of The Daleks
Caves of Androzani

6th Doctor :
Attack Of The Cybermen
Vengeance On Varos
Revelation of the Daleks

7th Doctor : (note : avoid season 24 like the plague!)
Remembrance Of The Daleks
The Greatest Show In the Galaxy
Ghost Light
The Curse Of Fenric (The Doctor meets Hastur!)
Survival

After Survival, Virgin continued the 7th doctor's stories in book form for several years and these took a more pure Adult tone. IMO this era is the best since it explored the gallifreyan and cthulhu mythological stuff the tv stories were beginning to go in the direction of. So you had the Doctor meet Sherlock Holmes and face off against Azathoth, one story I believe even hints at the Sillurians/Sea Devils worshipping Cthulhu and Dagon. Theres also heavy Gallifreyan mythology and history in there - one of my favourite books having flashbacks to the early Chrono-noughts and earliest time-travel experiments. "The Pit" features the Yssgaroth which were an enemy in a previous Time war, extra-dimensional aliens that bear a striking resemblance to Lovecraft's Night Gaunts and Mi-Go. Yeah. That era was unbeatable IMO.

[scadugenga]

I always hit a slight disconnect with DS9.

I kept expecting Sisko to "Hawk it up, thug style."

As so:

Hawk: You're the detective. I'm just a thug.
Spenser: You're too modest.
Hawk: Didn't mean to say I wasn't a great thug.

He never quite got there.

Avery Brooks without the nickel plated .357 and black leather jacket always seemed so...wrong.

[eldargal]

Hehe, my brothers made me watch Hawk when they found out he would be the captain of DS9. I was like 7 at the time so I didn't really appreciate it.:rolleyes:

I loved DS9, maybe it did get a bit 'gritty' with the Dominion war and whatnot but I felt it did so in a good way, it wasn't overdone as it usually is on television. Every ghastly detective story getting more gritty and boring than the last.

I know a lot of people seemed to dislike Voyager, but I loved it. Seven of Nine was the first attractive, intelligent and independent female sci fi character I can remember and was a good role model for an attractive and intelligent blonde growing up.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hehe, my brothers made me watch Hawk when they found out he would be the captain of DS9. I was like 7 at the time so I didn't really appreciate it.:rolleyes:

I loved DS9, maybe it did get a bit 'gritty' with the Dominion war and whatnot but I felt it did so in a good way, it wasn't overdone as it usually is on television. Every ghastly detective story getting more gritty and boring than the last.

I know a lot of people seemed to dislike Voyager, but I loved it. Seven of Nine was the first attractive, intelligent and independent female sci fi character I can remember and was a good role model for an attractive and intelligent blonde growing up.

I think DS9 was one of the best, personally. It had my all-time favourite character too : Garrack, the cardassian spy. He was way too awesome. I enjoyed the dominion war arc. I'm not sure which one I liked more...DS9 or babylon5.

Voyager to me seemed kind of hit and miss. 7of9 and the holographic Doctor were awesome though, and I'm sure I liked some of the others too. The stories could be hit and miss though I felt. Sometimes they just never felt like they were in enough danger or struggling to survive and got out too easy at times. There were some great episodes though such as the one with the "Macro Virus", I forget it's name but I thought that was a genius concept.

[eldargal]

Garak was my favourite character too, my favourite scifi episode of all time is 'In the Pale Moonlight', where he works with Sisko to get the Romulans to join the war.:) Never really got into Babylon 5, not sure why.

Voyager was hit and miss. It was good up until 7of9 arrived, then it became excellent but during season 6-7 it went a bit funny at times.

[scadugenga]

If the first season turned you off of Bab5, it was probably due to the (rumored) lack of cohesion amongst the cast members.

Seasons 2 forward were absolutely tight and fantastic.

I could actually see you grokking Ivonova for some reason...

[Lord Azaghul]

If the first season turned you off of Bab5, it was probably due to the (rumored) lack of cohesion amongst the cast members.

Seasons 2 forward were absolutely tight and fantastic.

I could actually see you grokking Ivonova for some reason...


I only remember one Babylon 5 episode, also the only episode I ever caught while it was on the air...

Something about one of the main female human characters trying to avoid having sex with a weird alien delegate -'cause that was how the alien specific conducted negotiations...so yeah, didn't ever try to watch the show after that one :P

Now that I"m older I just HOPE that was a one off goofy episode, and not a standard-type story!

[scadugenga]

I only remember one Babylon 5 episode, also the only episode I ever caught while it was on the air...

Something about one of the main female human characters trying to avoid having sex with a weird alien delegate -'cause that was how the alien specific conducted negotiations...so yeah, didn't ever try to watch the show after that one :P

Now that I"m older I just HOPE that was a one off goofy episode, and not a standard-type story!

It was a goofy one-off kind of episode. The problem there is you were landed smack dab in the middle of the overarching plotline and got sideswiped by the goofy "tension breaker" bit.