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Eisenhorn
09-07-2009, 03:25 PM
All-knowing forum members:

I like to use some of the standard water slide transfers from GW when detailing models. The problem I seem to be having now, though, is getting the transfer to blend in nicely on dark painted backgrounds. I've tride dull coating over the transfer after it dries, but (while making is dull) that seems to make the clear part of the transfer actually stand out from the dark background.

Essesntially what I'm looking for is to have the transfer look dry the way it looks when you first set it (wet) on the model.

Any of you transfer meisters have any suggestions on how to get a transfer to completely blend in on a dark background?

Thanks.

TSINI
09-07-2009, 03:38 PM
the only way i came up with on my commissar coats was to paint over the top of the transfer, but this requires painstaking effort and time, so basically i used the transfer as a guide rather than the actual design.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dKzBWK8cqBI/Se2-aqMF-nI/AAAAAAAAADY/SIbRxDAiMjs/s400/blog+040.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dKzBWK8cqBI/Se2_unsqRvI/AAAAAAAAADo/A8hC7ewDmN4/s400/blog+044.jpg

SkarBoy
09-07-2009, 06:01 PM
I do quite a lot of transfers on the Crimson Fists army I'm currently working on - the squad symbols and the chapter icons especially.

First, cut out the decal as carefully as you can, as closely as you can to the actual design. This will cut down on the shiny stuff around the outside of your decal.

Next, it may be necessary to notch it or cut it in a few places to get it to stick to the mini correctly. I have to do this on my space marine shoulder pads with the chapter icon, or half the decal ends up in the air.

Get a good pair of tweezers to help you put the decal on. Once you've got it on, it's easier to get the decal placed correctly with a brush dipped in some water. I have a brush that I use only for decals; you don't want any paint getting in there at this point.

After the decal is dry, I use the decal brush to brush on some decal set - I like to use Micro set from Microscale industries. Decal setting solutions soften the decal to get it to "settle into the cracks." Be careful not to put too many coats of this stuff on, as it can soften the decal too much and cause it to come off completely, or worse yet, break up on your model.

Then comes the painting. The red the GW decals use does not match the red I use for my Crimson Fists, so I just overpaint. Any good brush about 3/0 or smaller with a good point will get you by. Don't drink any coffee and use a good, small sable brush and you'll get the hang of it.

After you've overpainted the decal, lacquer it on with gloss coat lacquer. I didn't know for several years that dull coat lacquer doesn't actually have much lacquer in it. Once the gloss coat is dry, go over it with dull coat. This is going to change the appearance of the decal a little, but you can drybrush a little over it or re-highlight, depending on the technique you used on the rest of the mini.

Hope that helps.

SkarBoy

Le Scriv
09-07-2009, 08:05 PM
I'm no expert on all things decals so don't take this as 'the word'.

I've really only used custom decals and I spray them with a matt coating whereas it appears GW use a glossy coat which makes them stand out more.

Have you tried using Micro-Sol to see if that helps making it stand out less. I've got it in my head that using it with GW decals stops them from being so smooth and shiny.

deadmilkman
09-07-2009, 09:23 PM
MicroSol and MicroSet are the professional method. I go for a more low tech method, which calls for a brush on gloss clear coat under and over the decal, then matte spray sealer. Works pretty well for me.

Cutting the decal as close to the design as possible is also a great thing to do.

Wes

schoon
09-07-2009, 10:52 PM
I'm going to have to agree with TSINI, but perhaps not to the same extent.

The difficulty with decals (and all the advice above is great concerning trimming, solutions, etc.) is that they tend to be very uniform in color - a bit too uniform if you've done any shading at all on your miniature.

Thus, you often need to shade and highlight them a bit with paints after application in order for them to look right.

Pietia
09-08-2009, 02:00 AM
Deadmilkman mentioned this, but I'll provide more detail.
Buy matte varnish and gloss varnish in "paint", not spray. Vallejo sells it, probably Citadel also does (I never bothered to check).
Make sure that the area on which you want to set the decal is clear etc. Paint on 2-3 layers of gloss varnish. Apply decal. Micro-sol and similar fluids are recommended at this stage, but fully optional. After the decal has time to dry, paint a layer or two of matte varnish on top of it. Decal blends perfectly :D

vman
09-08-2009, 02:54 AM
i would try trimming them as best as possible and then use micro-sol to fix them without the need to cut slits.

Obviously if your a pro painter free hand would be the best way but that takes ages to achieve

darkangel1066
09-08-2009, 05:56 AM
Hi having just read the above comments, I would like to add my thoughts.

I agree with most of the comments and all the necessary prep work. Applying gloss varnish first to the model allows you to move the decal/transfer into position, using Micro Set is in my opinion essential product to have. If you apply decal to a Matt surface, remember this is how paint dries, you will find that the decal doesn't slide that well over surface it's rough and the chances you will tear the decal.

The gloss varnish also helps blend the shiny part, referred to as the carrier film of the decal with the model. After using Micro Sol to finish setting decal allow at least a few hours for decal to harden off.

Now paint on gloss varnish to protect decal, especially on vehicles when applying any weathering that needs to be done, using washes and pigments etc. Finally give model a good even coat of Matt varnish to blend together the model.

I hope this advice is of help :)

cyberakuma
09-08-2009, 06:32 AM
the decal setting solution is the best bet as others have said but if you've never used it before be warned it will scare the **** out of you when you first use it

as part way through it's cureing process it begins to crumple up the transfer making it look like its ruined this is perfectly normal though as the solution is just helping the transfer wrap around the contours of the mini smoothly (you'll probably only notice this on larger decals though so be warned when you use it on your first vehichle)

but if you just want a cheap way of getting rid of the shine any matt varnish in a pot over the top should help remove the shine the same as using matt over any gloss finish

i'm pretty sure you can get dullcoat in a pot if it's your preferred finish

Aldramelech
09-08-2009, 09:18 AM
Deadmilkman mentioned this, but I'll provide more detail.
Buy matte varnish and gloss varnish in "paint", not spray. Vallejo sells it, probably Citadel also does (I never bothered to check).
Make sure that the area on which you want to set the decal is clear etc. Paint on 2-3 layers of gloss varnish. Apply decal. Micro-sol and similar fluids are recommended at this stage, but fully optional. After the decal has time to dry, paint a layer or two of matte varnish on top of it. Decal blends perfectly :D

This is how I do mine too, seems to work well. I have to say GW decals are pants! very low quality.
I have no trouble at all with Hasagawa decals or Tamiya.

Eisenhorn
09-09-2009, 10:07 AM
Folks-

Thanks so much for all of the tips. I had tried undercoating with dull coat, then setting the decal, then overcoating with dull coat, and that blended better than simply setting it with water. I am trying right now the tip of undercoating with gloss coat, then overcoating with dull and will let you know how it turns out.

The volume of friendly tips and advice posted in response to a relatively simple question is a great example of what makes this hobby enjoyable, and the BoLS forums great fun to browse. I'll have to "lurk" less and participate more.

Eisenhorn
09-09-2009, 10:17 AM
MicroSol and MicroSet are the professional method. I go for a more low tech method, which calls for a brush on gloss clear coat under and over the decal, then matte spray sealer. Works pretty well for me.

Cutting the decal as close to the design as possible is also a great thing to do.

Wes

Incidentally, on the subject of using MicroSol and MicroSet, I have noted that even if you use one (or both) of these, the decal can still fleck or scrape off fairly easily over time. I think it's still a good idea to overcoat with your lacquer of choice. Nothing is sadder than to work so hard to get that decal JUSSSTTT right, only to have some klutz (in my case, usually me) scratch half of it off.:(

Skeletay
09-10-2009, 07:58 PM
Microsol and microset are absolutely the best way to apply transfers. They are easy to use and very cheap. They cost about $5 bucks each and will last a very long time. I've had the same two bottles for about 5 or 6 years.

The way I do it is pour out a bit of the blue bottle into its own cap, dip the decal in it for a second or to two, let it sit for a few more seconds, then place it where you want it with a brush. Don't touch it with your fingers! Once you're happy with the placement brush over it with the red bottle. As someone said earlier, it might wrinkle a little but that's ok. Keep an eye on it while it dries, and if the wrinkles don't go away, dip your brush in the red bottle again and smooth it out with your brush.

I used to lose my mind trying to put transfers on marine pads until I started using microsol/set. When you only use water, you are essentially gluing something flat onto something round, which is very difficult. What microsol does is actually melt the carrier film so when you're finished, all that's left is the design. That's why you get that painted on look.

It will be the best $10 you've ever spent. And no, I don't work for microsol.:p

P.s. here is an example of a decal applied with microset/sol then dullcoated.http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx172/skeletay/Bloodangel.jpg

Abominable Plague Marine
09-10-2009, 11:28 PM
Good stuff, I will have to give it a go myself. Certainly carnt hurt for that price!