Thoughts on new Sisters Codex

[Iceman]

Ok, I realize I am probably opening myself up for flaming but I've had some time with the new Codex and I'm not sure I am worse off as a SOB player.

Before the negatives start, I want to make clear I am talking pure SOB. The theme for my army was to use only women. That left out priests as well as the various inducted guard, inquisitors and retinue, etc for the most part. I understand that may not the optimal way to use the Witchhunters Codex.

So one of the complaints is limited build options. If you only use Sisters then the build options were limited before.

Another complaint is the uncertainty of faith points every turn instead of being able to build in such a way as to end up with a certain number of faith points for the game. I once worked with a successful war-game designer who told me that he liked to give players as many "decisions under uncertainty" as possible to keep the game more interesting and provide some fog of war. I do agree that the current system does not scale well for larger battles.

I agree that Celestians and possibly the Canoness has lost some of what made them a good unit. However, I think that is compensated for by the fact that Repentia are now a unit worth considering and the Death Cult Assassins are a great deal for the points.

I would have liked the Immolators to keep their "fast" designation or at least given the flamers more range like the IG Hellhound. On the other hand I do like the Rhino costing the same as everyone else's Rhino.

Anyway, yes I wish that the Sisters would have received the Gray Knight treatment with a full new range and codex.
Failing that, I am generally happy with a minidex that cleans up the Sisters of Battle and brings them more in line
with the rest of the 5th edition armies. In general, I find that the overall effectiveness of my SOB army is about the same as it was before after reconfiguring and adding some new units to reflect the strengths of the new codex.

[Dalleron]

In my eyes, as a pure SoB player as well, the only good thinng to come out of this codex is the reduction in points for rhinos.

We lost too much wargear. No blessed weapon, no jump packs for cannoness being the main things. My two HQ's are now illegal. And no eviscerator for VSS? Sure, I didn't always take them, but at least the option was there when I did. The dominion nerf is brutal.

This "codex", and I"ll use that term loosely, is a space marine codex. It's written the same way for an army that isn't Space Marines.

Why do people say the new Act of Faith is simpler. You're still going to have to explain why you are rolling for something.

In short, I think it blows. Most changes were not necessary. Let them be a unique army as they were before. Only hope is for the real codex to be worth the paper it's written on, whenever it comes.

[Mike X]

We lost too much wargear. No blessed weapon, no jump packs for cannoness being the main things. My two HQ's are now illegal. And no eviscerator for VSS? Sure, I didn't always take them, but at least the option was there when I did. The dominion nerf is brutal.

That's seriously horrible. Out of curiosity, what two HQs are now illegal for you?

[Melissia]

Any Canoness with jump packs, any Canoness with blessed weapon, and Palatines.

I'm assuming his two HQ choices were jump pack canonesses, or one jump pack and one blessed weapon.

[Melissia]

Failing that, I am generally happy with a minidex that cleans up the Sisters of Battle and brings them more in line
with the rest of the 5th edition armies..

THis one didn't even ATTEMPT to do this.

[Root]

THis one didn't even ATTEMPT to do this.

Concur. This WD codex does scream laziness and I'm not super excited at the prospect of throwing down with the "real" 5th ed books, but I don't totally hate it. Yes while my old 12 wound Canoness, good Troops, Stubborn all around, badass Faith and Eviscerators for everyone WH army is completely extinct, there are a few things I really like about this book. There are enough well priced and effective units to make the army playable and fun, its just not what we're used to. Once we adjust to the new SoB, I'm sure we'll win some games and enjoy ourselves until hopefully a day comes when we get a real update and new minis.

I will probably get bored running The Saint, Uriah, Seraphim, and a bunch of Exorcists over and over but F it, my old army list stayed the same for months at a time. It was good and didn't ever utilize Immolator spam boring cheese, it shall be missed...

[Root]

I've said it before in a few different places but heck I'll reiterate my feelings on this codex.

HQ: Everything that isn't a special character or a Battle Conclave is horrible. However the special characters and Conclave are RIDICULOUS for the points. Amazing value that helps offset the overpriced Troops and Elites.

Elites: About 2-3 points too much for what they're capable of but serviceable. Except for Priests. Who is Cruddace kidding? 45 points?!? Ugggh...

Troops: I hate them. Expensive and sitting ducks in melee. This kills the army more than anything else.

Fast Attack: 2 solid options at very fair point values. Very happy with this section. Again helps offset point rape elsewhere.

Heavy Support: No one should ever take a PE, which is sad cuz the model is cool. However Exorcists and Retributors are sick and very well priced. This section 2/3 awesomesauce.

All in all we'll all need to completely change the way we play SoB, but I think they are still fairly capable with practice and a little luck. In fact if it weren't for the garbage Troops and the fact that the only HQ's worth having are The Saint and Uriah plus his Conclave I would have actually liked it.

[Lerra]

I agree that Priests are lousy. A T3 1-wound independent character? He'll be killed in combat before the Sisters get to swing (or benefit from the re-roll). He could be an interesting way to add an Eviscerator to a squad of Battle Sisters, but there's no way he'll survive long enough to swing.

Overall, it seems like the WD codex is roughly on par with the paper codex in terms of power, but that's pretty crappy when the WH codex was at the bottom of the power curve to begin with. Basically, GW is forcing Sisters players to change their army lists and adapt to a rules change without the benefit of having a better army at the end of the process.

[imperialsavant]

:eek: First off I was really looking forward to this update if for no other reason than bringingthe points for Rhinos & Immys into line with other 5th Ed Codexs.

However they have completely emasculated the Cannoness ( Sorry dont know the Female version of emasculate?)
Now only 3+ A save. Gone are the Cloak etc which have been a feature of Wargear since Sisters first appeared. No Blessed Weapon with Strength advantage, No jump Packs. No Books of St Lucius. No options for Palentines etc etc.
From first impressions I will NO Longer take a Cannoness for my HQ, just Uriah Jacobus & the Living Saint.
I ask you. A Sisters Army with NO Cannoness. Sacriledge!!!!

Then look at your normal Sisters Squad (Troops) 20 points for a Heavy Flamer when you can take a Multi Melta for only 10. Thats just plain Crazy. A 10 strong squad with Heavy Flamer & Flamer now costs me 3 points MORE than previously !:confused:
How about the Dominions. You now need 10 Sisters to be able to take those 4 special Weapons.
The restrictions on Evicerators compaired to WHunters also leaves me cold & whilst Seraphim are now much cheaper I wonder about the cost of the Hand Flamers & Inferno Pistols.

O.K. The stats for the Retributer squads Rock but that seems to be the only real Joy in the new 'Dex.

May be I am just getting Old & Grumpy but I had hoped for Soooo much Better! :(

[gcsmith]

I like the new sisters dex, It may be im not an origional soristas player but i really see potential in the book, yes some expensive combos. but combos that could pay off.

[Frankio9]

I honestly don't think the Sisters are a BAD codex, I really don't. There are some interesting units in there. Also, look at it from this point of view: if they had made a really powerful codex, nobody would buy the ''real'' codex coming out in a year or something. Now they HAVE to buy that new codex.

[DarkLink]

All those people who said that Sisters should be 13pts per model when we were all speculating should look at this codex and be ashamed of themselves.

[Iceman]

I appreciate everyone's response and insights. I think that what I have read pretty much corroborates what I have been thinking. Specifically, there wasn't much in the way of build variation for a successful pure Sisters of Battle list under the Witchhunters Codex (how many of you used a Canoness with jump pack, Cloak of St Aspira, Books of St Lucius for all the superiors, etc.) and there isn't much in the way of build variation for a successful pure Sisters of Battle list under the new Sisters of Battle Codex. It's just that now the build is different.

I also agree that I would have much preferred a richer codex since I think the Sisters of Battle have a lot of potential character. More so than Gray Knights. (Space Marines are already supposed to be elite. What are Gray Knights? The best of the best of the best? The Men in Black?) I also am not sure why they took away many of the wargear options such as eviscerators for the Sister Superiors.

All I'm saying is that overall, for us pure Sisters of Battle players, I am not convinced we are worse off than before. I am also keeping my fingers crossed that this is an interim codex and sometime in the next 2 years we will have a whole new line.

[chicop76]

HQ: You are forced to use the special characters which is annoying for those who do not like to use special characters.

The canoness goes well with the honour guard, and that is it.

Unless I take sisters without a rhino I can put a Canonness with them. She would be really nice with the Celestine if she had a jump pack, and she don't work all that well with Dominion. She really wouldn't work with conclave due to a +5 to use faith and Repentia you want to stick in a rhino.

Elites:
Repentia is realy the only choice.

Celestines they don't suck it is just everything else is better and cheaper, so why take them.

Troops:
Honestly they are better than before. Re rolling on ones is more useful than rending. Also they come out to be cheaper than before.

Fast:
This is like your best choices

Heavy:
Exorcist has not changed much

The army is still better than bugs imo, and can do well still. I would not say it is a better army overal thougb.

[the jeske]

Re rolling on ones is more useful than rending.
could explain this more .

[andrewm9]

I've got some thoughts about this new 'codex' now that I have played with them about 3 times. First off unless the army you are facing is elite (meaning a low model count) they won't perform very well in general. I've fought against Tau twice and a space marine biker list. I won't say I did badly in any of those games as won both times against the Tau, but both of those times they had a low model count so I was able to focus my fire. The same was true of the bikers, but I just couldn't win an objective game against him. I was too slow and he was too resilient. At the end of the game he had like 5 models left on the board, but Sisters couldn't close the deal against them in cover.

Sisters die in assaults just like Necrons. Against bikers they were hopeless striking to wound on a 6. Space Marine Cap on bike hits 3 times scoring 3 ID wounds with his relic blade taking no wounds in return and poof there went the whole 10 girl squad in a sweeping advance.

St Celestine is not as awesome as some people think she is though. Sure she is a cheap special character who won't stay dead but those are her only redeeming qualities. Her WS and I seem awesome until you realize she's probably only going to score 2 wounds against any unit she attacks on the charge. Those same assault terminators with a Librarian killed her with Quickening and Might of the Ancients. She was ID'd before she got to go and I didn't see her again until turn 5.

Acts of Faith are mostly useless. The one for Seraphim and Dominions are decent when they work. The one for Battle Sisters did not save me from getting killed nor did it help me score a whole lot more wounds. The first game against Tau, I mostly ignored them as I kept forgetting about them.

It wasn't all bad as my Seraphim did well until I was assaulted by assault terminators. Those same assault terminators died to my Death Cult Assassins and Jacobus. Jacobus did not even have to swing since the DCA's butchered every space marine and the librarian who lead them. My dominions scored several vehicle kills in all 3 games. Scout moving dominions with meltas (possibly twin linked) are awesome. I learned to always take Melta-bombs on my Dominion superiors.