Lasguns (and their manufacturing)

[ThePhoenix]

A few friends and I were playing Dark heresy when the GM stated we couldn't use the charge packs of the lasguns of the enemys we had just killed. We thought this was wrong. We had a heated discussion about why, and why not, we could use them. To paraphrase the argument it went somthing like this:

GM: Since diffrent areas of the galaxy have different forge world manufacturers it makes sense that charge packs from a sector will not fix a lasgun from a different sector. (us being agents of the inquisition we have martian guns and being in the calexis sector we cant use their charge packs)

Group: That is wrong as Mars and the Mecanicum have the STC (standart template construct) and it is distributed to the imperium galaxy wide so that if, say, an imperial guard batallion were to fight in a different sector, they could use the sectors' charge packs if their own ran out.

GM: No as during the dark age of technology / age of strife the planets have stopped talking to each other and developed their weapons according to thier surroundings. For instance a desert worlds' lasgun would function differently to a ice worlds lasgun.

Group: Two things; 1) High Tech priests still go to mars to study and use the base STC, and 2) The weapons would function differently but the charge packs wouldn't as the charge packs are designed to act effectivley in all terrain, and "don't fix what isn't broke".

GM: No. (This I feel was his most balanced argument)

At this point we had to carry on and drop the argument as time was ticking on. I spoke to the GM since then and he still thinks he's right.

This argument is not about the dark heresy rules (with clearly state that charge packs fit all but the GM decided to ajust it and make it a "house rule" that its wrong) but an argument about the 40K fluff in general.

If you have a different opinion, feel free to state it as a reply.

[Grailkeeper]

In one of the Gaunts ghosts books the Tanith are supplied with Power Cells that don't fit into their Lasguns, so it is a possibility. You can recharge lasgun cells by leaving them in the sun or putting them in a fire(though this damages the cell). Your GM could say that they are different calibre cells.




Is there anything stopping you from picking up a few enemy guns?

[Denzark]

Firstly, whilst the STC argument holds some water, not every piece of imperial tech is based on STC. Nor does the common pieces that are STC mean there is only 1 variant - the Landraider is STC but check www.forgeworld.co.uk for a lesson in STC variance.

What this means is there could be non-STC power packs, or many different STC packs - as per the 2 types quoted in GG, an STC that only fits an Elysian bullpup carbine, an STC for Cadian, etc.

What is more important is why are you questioning the ruling of the GM? He told you no, end of? why waste time that could be gaming, by arguing?

[Drew da Destroya]

What is more important is why are you questioning the ruling of the GM? He told you no, end of? why waste time that could be gaming, by arguing?

Arguing is fun?

[Alpha Omega Protocol]

In one of the Gaunts ghosts books the Tanith are supplied with Power Cells that don't fit into their Lasguns, so it is a possibility. You can recharge lasgun cells by leaving them in the sun or putting them in a fire(though this damages the cell). Your GM could say that they are different calibre cells.

I agree with Grailkeeper, as I've just been reading the book that he is talking about. The thing is that there are standard sizes 1-5 for lasguns, so if your lasgun uses standard size 3 then another standard won't work. However, since there are standard sizes I would think it would be possible the enemy could have the same standard.
From Guns of Tanith book:

== 'LET ME EXPLAIN,’ said Sergeant Ceglan Varl. He laid his guard-issue lasrifle on the counter of the Munitorium store and brushed the backs of his fingers down the length of it like a showman beginning a trick. 'This here is a standard pattern mark III lascarbine, stamped out by the armourers of Tanith Magna, God-Emperor rest their oily fingers. Notice the wooden stock and sleeve. That's nice, isn't it? Real Tanith nal-wood, the genuine article. And the metalwork, all buffed down to reduce shine. See?'

The Munitorium clerk, a paunchy, dimpled man with greasy red hair and starchy robe, stood on the other side of the counter and stared back at Varl without any show of interest.

'Here's the thing,' said Varl, tapping the weapon's ammuni¬tion slot. That's a size three power port. Takes size three power cells. They can be short, long, sickle-pattern, box-form or drum, but they have to be size three or they won't fit. Size three. Thirty mil with a back-slant lock. With me so far?'

The clerk shrugged.

Varl took a power clip from his musette bag and slid it across the counter.

You've issued my company with size fives. Size fives, you see? They're thirty-four mil and flat-fronted. You can tell they're not threes just by looking at the size of them, but if you're in any doubt, the fething great "5" stencilled on the side is a handy guide.'

The derk picked up the dip and looked at it.

'We were instructed to issue ammunition. Eight hundred boxes. Standard pattern.'

'Standard size three,' said Varl patiently. That's standard size five'

'Standard pattern, they said. I've got the docket'

'I'm sure you have. And the Tanith First-and-Only have got boxes and boxes of ammo that they can't use.' ==



Is there anything stopping you from picking up a few enemy guns?
Could be lower quality weapon, and may have so issues like it aims to the left or something along those lines.

p.s. [To Moderator/Admin] I hope that writing that bit from the book won't get me in trouble, I just thought it would help show the point, but if it is against the rules please remove it.

[Denzark]

Arguing with blunt trauma weapons is fun...

[Root]

In an Imperium of over a million worlds the chances of there being some variance in the power packs used on different planets is atronomically high. Weapons manufacture is an incredibly precise industry with tolerances measured in microns (with devastating results if these tolerances are not met...). Improperly manufactured bullets can kill or maim a shooter rather easily, so being able to trust your ammunition is important. If I were in Afghanistan and I found some 5.56 ammo on a dead insurgent, I wouldn't touch the stuff unless it was literally my last option.

Also from the GM's perspective, he probably wanted you to run low on ammo. Think about games like Resident Evil, they start getting waaaaaay more intense when your down to your last precious few shotgun shells...

[Paul]

It is indeed possible that the charge-packs wouldn't fit; there are several marks of lasgun, and not all of them are 19-megathule like the Mark IIIs.

That said, just take their lasguns and all....

[Wildeybeast]

1) GM is always right, that is his role!
2) I imagine lasguns to be like the modern assault rifle. Built on similar principles, with many different variations. There will be the standard 'AK47' model that is found everywhere, but no reason that there won't be many highly specialised versions.
3) Do you have any evidence to say that lasguns are made from STC's? STC are usually used for things that the Imeprium doesn't understand how to make any more, whereas lasguns are so simple to make that they really don't need an STC.

[Force21]

I think both are right in the sense that...

1. Your party/squad arrived on Plant X & got brand new Lasguns... after your run in with the bad guys... its A. they were raider/ traitors/heretics that got the same type of Lasguns for the same plant That would mean you could use em...
or B. you party or they had Lasguns from a different sector/world/or made in the Eye of Terror then they would clearly not work...

So... you both are right kinda... I would go with the GM because that would mean they are not the same type of Lasgun...

I mean they have Flintlock Lasguns so I would think not all Lasguns are the same.

I found this pic... I am not sure if its cannon or not but you can tell that the Laspacks are not the same...
http://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/2/2b/1271099410879.jpg/800px-1271099410879.jpg

[Thornblood]

Its not a canon picture, but it is very close with the exception of the mars pattern lasgun (which are supposed to look like the old Imperial guard ones- that metal tallarn, Praetorians and Mordians still use...

I think Dan Abnett put in the different sized lasgun power packs into the Gaunts Ghosts series first- and as a device to increase problems/tension and relate with reallife war situations.

However since then Lasguns look like anything. The Inquisitor rulebook expanded on it after the plastic catachan mopdels were released (giving us Galaxy and Voss patterns in that wave of releases). "Kantrael" is what the cadian plastics use. All the rest are Forge world models. Thay have missed dout the Vostroyans though.

[WereWolf_nr]

GM is always right.

Why? Because even the Chaos gods and the Emperor answer to the GM.

Personally, I would have let you but given those who did a corruption point for knowingly using tainted equipment.

[Grailkeeper]

I think the OP might have left...

[StraightSilver]

Interestingly I am just re-reading the Gaunt's Ghosts novels again in preperation for Salvation's Reach and I never noticed before that the Tanith lasguns are descibed as having curved, sickle mags.

This would obviously explain why their mark (5?) lasguns have different ammo packs, but I don't think I have ever seen sickle mags on las guns before.

Then again this is dan Abnett, who often gets auto guns mixed up with autocannons, and heavy bolters with bolt pistols bless him! :)

[Xas]

pick up ammo AND gun.

problem solved!


if you char is to afraid of heretic/xenos gear to use the gun he/she wouldnt use the ammo pack either (imagine you mistake a chaos doombolt for a simple boltgun round and shoot some grot point blank? I assure you that it would ruin your day!)

[Thornblood]

I had some guys with sickle mags- i think they were old metal catachans, but they might have been old house orlock necromunda. Whichever way they were wearing the same clothes so they were all catachans, then when that dream died (before plastic catachans) they all became orlocks fo necromunda. I had a mix of both sets of models.

But lasguns ruled necromunda.

[originoo]

Just read "Only in Death", Gaunt's Ghosts Series.
There Scout Seargent Mkoll picks up energy cells from the blood pact. Nothing mentioned about fitting or moral issues...

[arget8]

Different sized cells are a fluff fact man, tough break on that. I'd just roll with the story anyway, no use arguing.

[bfmusashi]

Could have done a tech use test to transfer the charges from their packs to your packs.